Big Ten is indeed looking at further expansion

[SU2NASA]

Was talking to a very close friend that is well connected to the Michigan athletic department as a big donor to the Victors Club. We were talking expansion, specifically all of the rumors that have been flying around about Florida State and Clemson to the Big 12.

He said that from his informal discussion to those within the Michigan AD, specifically those with good knowledge of the Big Ten's media contracts with the BTN and ESPN that while they believe that the FSU and Clemson rumors are just rumors, that a lot of it seems to be countering that the Big 12 is really not safe by any stretch.

Losing all of Missouri, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado is a much bigger loss for football than people realize and that the Big 12 is trying to work public opinion.

After the Big Ten's addition of Nebraska, and the positive affect it's had, that the Big Ten is still interested in further expansion, but like Nebraska, is interested in more national appeal.

The idea that the ACC is a landing spot for ND is more of a pipe dream with no basis, and that if ND goes anywhere, it'll be to the Big Ten. With 9 game conference schedules coming for the Big Ten and ACC, ND to the ACC would mean ending longtime rivalries that ND isn't willing to - with 3 non-conference games and annual games with USC, Navy, Michigan, Michigan State, Stanford, and even Purdue, only 3 can survive at best and that would lock ND out of playing any other non-conference games.

While ND values independence, with the possibility of conference champions going to the BCS, and the likelihood that the NBC contract won't be able to compete with the Big Ten revenue, whose teams ND competes for recruits, that the Big Ten makes the most sense financially and will enable them to maintain games with UofM, MSU, Purdue while still having three open non-conference games.

If ND does accept the equal revenue sharing of the Big Ten, the other candidate being eyed is Oklahoma rather than any east coast team. The Big Ten's analysis done two years ago showed that no eastern team could deliver the additional revenue to even offset their addition.

The key to Oklahoma is that they want out from under Texas' shadow, that the Longhown Network is a perceived huge threat, the attractiveness of addition to the CIC over the academic shortfalls of the Big 12, and maintaining its rivalry with Nebraska and fitting in with the large state schools of the Big Ten. The Big Ten's interest, like with Nebraska, is that Oklahoma delivers a national TV presence.

The possible coupling with Oklahoma State is not seen as a threat since Ok State still has a home in no matter what with Texas involved will always be a BCS conference.

 

[Alsacs]

Oklahoma isn't in the AAU and Oklahoma State's President basically confirmed last August OU and OSU are tied at the hip and there is no way the B1G would take Oklahoma State. The B1G isn't going to expand just for the heck of it and I believe they won't expand without Notre Dame. If ND is 13 does the B1G go 14 or 16? If they go 14 then I would put my money on Maryland as 14. I have no clue who 15 and 16 would be but if you listen to garbage off the RU board they are 13 and ND is 14. OU would love to be the B1G for CIG, but I doubt they could leave now that they signed away their TV rights for the next 8 years and the only reason the B1G will expand would be for the BTN and to get more Cable boxes and I doubt without media rights OU would justify their monetary worth.

 

[TexanMark]

BLUF: OU makes sense on the TV front...not so much on the academic front but they are a King. If they expand OU adds more national appeal than all but a few programs.

 

[texasorange]

Kansas & OU to the Big 10?

 

[omniorange]

If one assumes that both the Big 12 and the ACC are poachable, there are 5 Kings available - ND, UT, OU, FSU, and the U.

I don't think the BiG is going to get any of them except ND. I also don't see the SEC getting any of them but FSU, and they supposedly don't want them.

The best possible scenarios, in my mind, are UT and OU join USC in the Pac and ND join FSU and the U in the ACC, giving those conferences three Kings each.

But then, I'm biased.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SURules]

Sounds like complete "homerism" by a UM Alumni / booster to me.

 

[Alsacs]

No Big XII team is leaving for the next 13 years. They would be worthless to their new conference. Oklahoma is a blue blood program and would be able to re-new their rivalry with Nebraska, but without media rights OU isn't leaving. ND and an ACC school or Mizzou would be 14 for the Big 10. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...21/big-12-verbally-agrees-to-new-espnfox-deal

 

[Townie72]

Was talking to a very close friend that is well connected to the Michigan athletic department as a big donor to the Victors Club. We were talking expansion, specifically all of the rumors that have been flying around about Florida State and Clemson to the Big 12.

He said that from his informal discussion to those within the Michigan AD, specifically those with good knowledge of the Big Ten's media contracts with the BTN and ESPN that while they believe that the FSU and Clemson rumors are just rumors, that a lot of it seems to be countering that the Big 12 is really not safe by any stretch.

Losing all of Missouri, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado is a much bigger loss for football than people realize and that the Big 12 is trying to work public opinion.

After the Big Ten's addition of Nebraska, and the positive affect it's had, that the Big Ten is still interested in further expansion, but like Nebraska, is interested in more national appeal.

The idea that the ACC is a landing spot for ND is more of a pipe dream with no basis, and that if ND goes anywhere, it'll be to the Big Ten. With 9 game conference schedules coming for the Big Ten and ACC, ND to the ACC would mean ending longtime rivalries that ND isn't willing to - with 3 non-conference games and annual games with USC, Navy, Michigan, Michigan State, Stanford, and even Purdue, only 3 can survive at best and that would lock ND out of playing any other non-conference games.

While ND values independence, with the possibility of conference champions going to the BCS, and the likelihood that the NBC contract won't be able to compete with the Big Ten revenue, whose teams ND competes for recruits, that the Big Ten makes the most sense financially and will enable them to maintain games with UofM, MSU, Purdue while still having three open non-conference games.

If ND does accept the equal revenue sharing of the Big Ten, the other candidate being eyed is Oklahoma rather than any east coast team. The Big Ten's analysis done two years ago showed that no eastern team could deliver the additional revenue to even offset their addition.

The key to Oklahoma is that they want out from under Texas' shadow, that the Longhown Network is a perceived huge threat, the attractiveness of addition to the CIC over the academic shortfalls of the Big 12, and maintaining its rivalry with Nebraska and fitting in with the large state schools of the Big Ten. The Big Ten's interest, like with Nebraska, is that Oklahoma delivers a national TV presence.

The possible coupling with Oklahoma State is not seen as a threat since Ok State still has a home in what no matter what with Texas involved in what will always be a BCS conference.

This report, to me. ooozes credibility.

I can't quantify "Midwesterness", but it an extremely important thing to the Big Ten. It is a group of Midwestern schools. That characteristic is central to their identity.

ND --- if they move--- will try to maintain as much as they can of their history and traditions, while doing the best they can financially. That's why if ND goes to a conference, it'll be the Big Ten.

That's why Rutgers and UConn will never be added to the B1G. They are way too "Northeastern".

 

[Alsacs]

Jim Delany when talking about the Pinstripe Bowl said this “I think New York City is the financial sports capital of the world. It's a global city, like Chicago. And we'll have conversations with them.” While I don't think Rutgers or UConn are on the top of the B1G radar it would be stupid to say if the B1G went to 16 teams that Rutgers or UConn couldn't be among those 16. It all boils down to Notre Dame and what they do. If ND agrees to join the B1G then I see the B1G only adding 1 more school and being comfortable with 14 teams, but without ND the B1G may go 14 like the SEC, and ACC and keep 2 slots open for when ND finally has to join a conference.

 

[HtownOrange]

Some stuff is believable, like Big 12 instability and ND not wanting to give up rivalries. However, Syracuse and Pitt just added nearly $60MM/year to a deal with the ACC which is perceived to be worth far less than the B1G's deal. The same two teams would easily be worth more in a bigger deal/better coverage etc. arrangement and would further the B1G presence in NYC.

Also, not buying OU is next on the list unless the B1G is changing its stance on academics. When UT was flirting, the B1G agreed to UT and TAMU but rejected all others UT suggested (OU, OSU and TTech).

 

[TexanMark]

Some stuff is believable, like Big 12 instability and ND not wanting to give up rivalries. However, Syracuse and Pitt just added nearly $60MM/year to a deal with the ACC which is perceived to be worth far less than the B1G's deal. The same two teams would easily be worth more in a bigger deal/better coverage etc. arrangement and would further the B1G presence in NYC.

Also, not buying OU is next on the list unless the B1G is changing its stance on academics. When UT was flirting, the B1G agreed to UT and TAMU but rejected all others UT suggested (OU, OSU and TTech).

I agree a couple things give me pause: OU/OSU academic status also UT and OU are pretty much attached at the hip. Like most of these so called insiders most have 1 or 2 truths and much BS.

 

[arbitragegls]

just so we are playing on a level field...the 13 yr of grant of rights has not been signed by Big 12 schools as yet. It has received verbal approvals but nothing in writing. Things can always change...even contracts do.

 

[omniorange]

just so we are playing on a level field...the 13 yr of grant of rights has not been signed by Big 12 schools as yet. It has received verbal approvals but nothing in writing. Things can always change...even contracts do.

Are you sure about this? I believe the GOR document was distributed to Big 12 member institutions late September and returned signed by all members at that time sometime in October, except for Missouri, who would eventually leave. Both TCU and WVU supposedly signed the GOR upon acceptance into the league as well.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Czar]

Notre Dame will never go to the B1G. Too much bad blood.

 

[orangenauburn]

Best of everything for ND -- come to ACC with Navy

Play traditional opponents (history): Navy, Maryland, BC, Syracuse, Pitt in conference

OOC schedule USC, Michigan yearly and rotate Mich St, Army, Stanford

 

[arbitragegls]

Are you sure about this? I believe the GOR document was distributed to Big 12 member institutions late September and returned signed by all members at that time sometime in October, except for Missouri, who would eventually leave. Both TCU and WVU supposedly signed the GOR upon acceptance into the league as well.

Cheers,
Neil

The GOR verballed was for 6 yrs...they are now talking 13 years but this has not been signed. Believe if you google this you will find what I did...hopefully.
What is interesting, is that ESPN is now running in rumors both B1G and Pac 12 may be looking to expand...the Pac 12 needs to either get teams from Big 12 or move out East...If GOR was infact signed for 13 years I do not believe this would be the case to discuss rumors.

Here is part of ESPN article:

"The pickings are slim, unless Scott tries to raid the Big 12, which at present is surging and unified, or he gets really creative, outmaneuvers the Big Ten, grabs Notre Dame and uses that coup to go national and lures three more teams from outside the West region."​

 

[omniorange]

The GOR verballed was for 6 yrs...they are now talking 13 years but this has not been signed. Believe if you google this you will find what I did...hopefully.
What is interesting, is that ESPN is now running in rumors both B1G and Pac 12 may be looking to expand...the Pac 12 needs to either get teams from Big 12 or move out East...If GOR was infact signed for 13 years I do not believe this would be the case to discuss rumors.

Okay, gotcha.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[kingottoiii]

IMO ND wouldn't be able to compete year in and year out in the B1G. They have a better chance of competing in the ACC. I think going to the B1G (and playing 10 to 11 games in the MW) will hurt ND. Also in the ACC they would have a lot of power on the FB side while in the B1G they won't have much if any.

Interesting that in the BCS era they are 100-72 overall. Against the B1G teams they are 21-24. Nearly half of those Ws are against Purdue though. Against the ACC ND is 20-19.

Purdue 10-4
PSU 1-1
Mich 5-7
Mich St 5-9
Ohio St 0-1
Neb 0-2

MD 2-0
Duke 1-0
Miami 1-0
Wake 1-0
Pitt 6-4
UNC 1-1
BC 5-7
FSU 1-2
GA Tech 1-2
SU 1-2
NC St 0-1

 

[Alsacs]

ND isn't joining the ACC. They are either going to the B1G or remain independent. The B1G's TV contract with ESPN expires in 2016 so the conference won't expand until 2015 at the earliest. Jim Delany won't expand unless the additional mouths added will increase the pot for the remaining 12 teams. Only 2 teams would do this for the B1G Texas and Notre Dame. Until the B1G gets a commitment from one of those 2 schools they will not expand. Syracuse just needs Florida State and Clemson get over their angry at Swofford and realize that leaving for the Big XII will only increase their coffers by about 2-3 million dollars if that is enough money to justify leaving the ACC then just do it but 2-3 million a year IMO won't be enough to leave the ACC.

 

[HtownOrange]

A few quick points:

1) The GOR in the Big 12 is a contract and can be breached, a negotiated settlement reached and everyone may go their separate ways. Obviously, this only comes into play once it is signed, at this point, it really means nothing.
2) The Big 12 is actually more unstable than the ACC or Big East. The ACC has been together much longer and the Big East is primarily teams not wanted.
3) The Big 12 had to reach the champions game with the SEC to appear stable. The SEC knew their champion would have almost no chance of playing in it and in many years, their third team would play in it. The SEC has made it known they want the four team play-off, NOT a +1. The deal means nothing to the SEC and makes the Big 12 appear solid. The payoff could be really good, too.
4) The Big 12 is courting Notre Dame. They have realized that the Big East has been at the big boy table for numbers and because Notre Dame gladly flies cover for the Big East. People can claim whatever they want about ND, but the relationship with the Big East is actually a good deal for both the Big East and ND. ND needs exposure for its Olympic teams and the Big East provides it, in spades, especially in hoops. Football wise, ND is doing quite well as an independent (as far as their big donor fans are concerned). ND asserts football independence and the Big East is invited to dine with the big boys. The Big 12 is the ONLY other big boy conference that would benefit from this type of relationship.
5) The Big 12 has the reality that the eight remaining teams have all tried several times (read conferences) to leave the Big 12.
6) Four teams successfully left the Big 12.
7) The Two new Big 12 teams do not equal the value of the departing teams (yes, I know that the TV deal is bigger, but the TV deal would have been even larger had the four stayed AND the deal been renegotiated).

 

[Faegan]

CIC, GOR. What? Starting to need a phuckking secret decoder ring around here. Little help?

 

[syr02esq]

All BS.

 

[Jimmy F]

No Big XII team is leaving for the next 13 years. They would be worthless to their new conference. Oklahoma is a blue blood program and would be able to re-new their rivalry with Nebraska, but without media rights OU isn't leaving. ND and an ACC school or Mizzou would be 14 for the Big 10. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...21/big-12-verbally-agrees-to-new-espnfox-deal

This has not been signed yet and there is plenty of time for poaching of the Big 12 before it is.

 

[rrlbees]

If ND does accept the equal revenue sharing of the Big Ten, the other candidate being eyed is Oklahoma rather than any east coast team. The Big Ten's analysis done two years ago showed that no eastern team could deliver the additional revenue to even offset their addition.

The key to Oklahoma is that they want out from under Texas' shadow, that the Longhown Network is a perceived huge threat, the attractiveness of addition to the CIC over the academic shortfalls of the Big 12, and maintaining its rivalry with Nebraska and fitting in with the large state schools of the Big Ten. The Big Ten's interest, like with Nebraska, is that Oklahoma delivers a national TV presence.

The possible coupling with Oklahoma State is not seen as a threat since Ok State still has a home in no matter what with Texas involved will always be a BCS conference.

HaHa. Now this guy thinks you are a blogger. :rolling:

Tim_Matty247 ‏@Tim_Matty247
Memo to http://syracusefan.com - if you are going to write a blog, at least do some research ahead of time. http://syracusefan.com/threads/big-ten-is-indeed-looking-at-further-expansion.27187/ @CFravel247

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[Admiral Koga]

A few quick points:


4) The Big 12 is courting Notre Dame. They have realized that the Big East has been at the big boy table for numbers and because Notre Dame gladly flies cover for the Big East. People can claim whatever they want about ND, but the relationship with the Big East is actually a good deal for both the Big East and ND. ND needs exposure for its Olympic teams and the Big East provides it, in spades, especially in hoops. Football wise, ND is doing quite well as an independent (as far as their big donor fans are concerned). ND asserts football independence and the Big East is invited to dine with the big boys. The Big 12 is the ONLY other big boy conference that would benefit from this type of relationship.
.

I thought that I read somewhere that the Big 12 doesn't offer all that many Olympic sports. And that when WVU joined, they had to park their soccer team in the MAC because the Big 12 doesn't offer soccer (mens? womens?). Anyway, I feel that it would be hard for the Big 12 to offer ND much on this front, other than basketball and baseball.