Biggest rival?

[Dick_in_MI]

The fact that we have no annual rival games is detrimental to our recruiting. Rivalries create gravitas. Leaving the big east is the kiss of death. Another embarrassing football season and the program would not be worth saving. Would be time to go back to the big east. It is where we belong. Would love to put Nova back to second place.
Babers is as good of a coach as we will get. Our football doldrums are not his fault. We are in a deep hole and are seen by recruits as a basketball school. At what point do we throw in the towel?

first off, I totally disagree that Babers is as good as we can get. Our football doldrums are certainly in part his fault. We have made significant investments in infrastructure to elevate the program. We don’t necessarily have to be able to compete with Clemson but we should be able to compete with most of the other ACC schools, and 4 losing seasons in the past 5 years is not acceptable. No reason why we should be at a disadvantage vs former Big East schools Pitt and BC, both of whom had 4 winning seasons in the past five years. No reason whatsoever. Heck, Wake Forest is not seen as either a football or basketball school and they too have had 4 winning seasons in the past 5. I mean, c’mon...Wake -ing Forest! A school with only about 8000 students.

On the hoops side, I miss Nova as well, along with St John’s, Georgetown, etc. But the Big East that you and I miss had long ceased to exist before we left. I don’t spend 3 seconds out of the year missing DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, South Florida, and the rest of the bloated mess that the conference had become.

Finally, we also had the problem of the all-sports schools having their futures decided by a consortium of hoops- only schools who voted as a block. There are problems with the ACC, to be sure, but it is a solid hoops conference and it isn’t like they are the SEC in football In terms of competition.

 

[721Comstock]

But the Big East that you and I miss had long ceased to exist before we left.

I don’t spend 3 seconds out of the year missing DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, South Florida, and the rest of the bloated mess that the conference had become.

Finally, we also had the problem of the all-sports schools having their futures decided by a consortium of hoops- only schools who voted as a block.
There are problems with the ACC, to be sure, but it is a solid hoops conference and it isn’t like they are the SEC in football In terms of competition.

I gave you a like for these parts.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

The ACC should form a div. of : 1) SYRACUSE
2) PITT
3) BC
4) Uconn Note#4 (I know I know, can't happen)
5) VT
6) Georgetown ( see note 4)
It could be titled The "Old New Big East North Div."

Anyway, they can scuffle the remainder of the Carolina triangle teams anyway they want !

Yes, I know this is NEVER going to happen, but it was a cool dream, gotta stop eating after midnight !

 

[Trueblue25]

Cincy was the one I miss from the Big East aside from whats been mentioned.

not a rivalry but was back and forth enough in basketball to quickly develop into one

 

[AlaskaSU]

Cincy was the one I miss from the Big East aside from whats been mentioned.

not a rivalry but was back and forth enough in basketball to quickly develop into one

Ditto Marquette.
I admit to being pretty much a basketball only. Mostly bad football memories ever since McNabb couldn't talk Dog Killer into coming here. That is alot of years of football futility. I've lost hope.
From my basketball only perspective I would prefer the big east to the acc. The acc schools seem like ooc schools. If a recruit wants to play in the acc why would he pick us over the old guard? If we want to get back to basketball relevancy the acc won't do it.

 

[ORRange]

1)Hoyas
2) Yukon
3)Nova
4) Bonnie's

And now we don't have a rival. It sucks. Until we start beating Duke and VA on a regular basis they could care less.

 

[kcsu]

Growing up it was always Pstate and St.Johns

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Growing up it was always Pstate and St.Johns

yeah, for me it was also always PSU in football. However, from 1967 to 2013 we only beat them three times in 27 games, which is staggering when you think about it. Most games were not even close.

For us they were a rival. For them, we were a speed bump...

 

[kcsu]

yeah, for me it was also always PSU in football. However, from 1967 to 2013 we only beat them three times in 27 games, which is staggering when you think about it. Most games were not even close.

For us they were a rival. For them, we were a speed bump...

Blowing them out in the Dome is a top 10 all time SU moment for me.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Blowing them out in the Dome is a top 10 all time SU moment for me.

without question.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

Football Rival, not for me !
I guess memories are great, but the memories of our football glory have faded deep into the pages of sport’s history, at least for me.
I just can’t enjoy Cuse Football these days. I doubt many of us can. It may be wrong to speak for others, but I think many others here no longer have a rapid heartbeat for football.
You can live on past glory but for just so long. I am a BB guy now, and the days of the big football rivalry have long passed for me.
So Penn State, Pitt, BC, etc. no longer excite me. I wish Dino the best, hope he can revive the program but it’s a mixed bag to this point for him.
I freely admit my heart has always been a BB first guy, with a pause in between BB season for football, but now it is almost embarrassing to talk about SU Football.
I live on the Gulf Coast of Alabama now, and if I spoke about SU football down here the roar of laughter would be deafening.
I totally respect anyone’s love for football, for me, that train has left the station.
So, no I have no football rival at this point.
My advance apologies to the football contingent here.

 

[AlaskaSU]

first off, I totally disagree that Babers is as good as we can get. Our football doldrums are certainly in part his fault. We have made significant investments in infrastructure to elevate the program. We don’t necessarily have to be able to compete with Clemson but we should be able to compete with most of the other ACC schools, and 4 losing seasons in the past 5 years is not acceptable. No reason why we should be at a disadvantage vs former Big East schools Pitt and BC, both of whom had 4 winning seasons in the past five years. No reason whatsoever. Heck, Wake Forest is not seen as either a football or basketball school and they too have had 4 winning seasons in the past 5. I mean, c’mon...Wake -ing Forest! A school with only about 8000 students.

On the hoops side, I miss Nova as well, along with St John’s, Georgetown, etc. But the Big East that you and I miss had long ceased to exist before we left. I don’t spend 3 seconds out of the year missing DePaul, Marquette, Cincy, South Florida, and the rest of the bloated mess that the conference had become.

Finally, we also had the problem of the all-sports schools having their futures decided by a consortium of hoops- only schools who voted as a block. There are problems with the ACC, to be sure, but it is a solid hoops conference and it isn’t like they are the SEC in football In terms of competition.

Babers turned around two football programs. Perhaps our futility is not his fault. We are in a deep hole. Our history is too old to be relevant. We are not attractive to most recruits.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Football Rival, not for me !
I guess memories are great, but the memories of our football glory have faded deep into the pages of sport’s history, at least for me.
I just can’t enjoy Cuse Football these days. I doubt many of us can. It may be wrong to speak for others, but I think many others here no longer have a rapid heartbeat for football.
You cannot live on past glory but for just so long. I am a BB guy now, and the days of the big football rivalry has long passed for me.
So Penn State, Pitt, BC, etc. no longer excite me. I wish Dino the best, hope he can revive the program but it’s a mixed bag to this point for him.
I freely admit my heart has always been a BB first guy, with a pause in between BB season for football, but now it is almost embarrassing to talk about SU Football.
I live on the Gulf Coast of Alabama now, and if I spoke about SU football down here the roar of laughter would be deafening.
I totally respect anyone’s love for football, for me, that train has left the station.
So, no I have no football rival at this point.
My advance apologies to the football contingent here.

I think you will find there are some hoops-only fans, some football-only fans but the majority on the board follow both. You are correct in football not being “enjoyable” for much of the past number of years though.

I am a lifelong fan of both plus was a student at SU precisely when Ben chose that moment in time to let the game pass him by. So we sucked, plus I had the pleasure of watching the suckiness while often sitting in puddles on the cold, hard Archbold Stadium steps. It kind of puts our recent struggles in perspective. We have sucked before, we have been good before. We will be both again.

The thing is, we don’t have much of an actual rivalry these days in either sport. To me, a rivalry involves both schools. SU and Georgetown are still rivals...when we actually play...but the intensity has dimmed a lot. Even Patrick Ewing doesn’t evoke the emotions in SU fans as a coach that he once did as a player. Big John is long gone, and with him is a big piece of the rivalry. Same with UCONN. When we play, it still means something but not nearly as much as it used to.

A few rivalries pre-existed us in the ACC and we can never break into those. There are a number of ACC schools that don’t have true, two-sided rivalries, though. We are one of those. Our “natural“ rivals should be Pitt or BC...in both sports, really...but we are nowhere near a true rivalry with either. I like to beat both of them but not as much as I like beating select schools in both sports that we don’t have actual rivalries with. Beating Clemson in football or Duke in hoops means a lot more to me than beating Pitt or BC in either. There is no rivalry there, however.

Finally, for me anyway, being an SU fan has nothing at all to do with past glory. It’s my school, end of story, and I follow both major sports win or lose. Not aimed at you, of course, but I have no interest in what fans in Alabama feel about SU. When a state with one of the lowest rates of education in America spends more on football than the gross national product of a third world nation, then that tells me all I need to know about them anyway.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Babers turned around two football programs. Perhaps our futility is not his fault. We are in a deep hole. Our history is too old to be relevant. We are not attractive to most recruits.

Maybe, but again, we should be as attractive to recruits as BC, Pitt, and Wake. As I said, I am not expecting us to beat Clemson but I feel that BC, Pitt, and a few others are fair benchmarks against which to measure ourselves. Also, Dino turned around teams that played in conferences far below P5 level.

 

[kcsu]

SU has made a major investment in the Dome. Its arguably the 2nd best football in the east after Pstate.
If we can get to a bowl this season i expect us to remain there each year. I truly believe Dino thought he was gone after the 10 win season and if not for a few jobs falling as they did he would have been. This cost us.
At this point he needs to perform. His dreams of USC or UCLA are over and i think he realizes it.
4 m at SU is pretty amazing considering his record. White was a great hire. Gilbert who knows. The Cav situation turned out beyond the best for all involved. Blessings for his wife and SUs line will be significantly improved. IF Dino plays to the teams strengths which will be our D and running the ball we will win 6 maybe more games.
The East needs another team. Ibe believe we are going to shock some teams this year and i put a significant bet on it. Go Cuse!

 

[Dick_in_MI]

SU has made a major investment in the Dome. Its arguably the 2nd best football in the east after Pstate.
If we can get to a bowl this season i expect us to remain there each year. I truly believe Dino thought he was gone after the 10 win season and if not for a few jobs falling as they did he would have been. This cost us.
At this point he needs to perform. His dreams of USC or UCLA are over and i think he realizes it.
4 m at SU is pretty amazing considering his record. White was a great hire. Gilbert who knows. The Cav situation turned out beyond the best for all involved. Blessings for his wife and SUs line will be significantly improved. IF Dino plays to the teams strengths which will be our D and running the ball we will win 6 maybe more games.
The East needs another team. Ibe believe we are going to shock some teams this year and i put a significant bet on it. Go Cuse!

Yep. We also invested in the IPF.

To me, Dino needs to win 7. If he wins only 6, that almost certainly means we went to a bowl (give how the overabundance of bowls has diluted the concept of rewarding a good season) And lost that bowl. That would mean a 6-7 record, which would further mean 5 losing seasons in a six year tenure.

I hope he does get the acceptable number of wins. He has shown he CAN have a great season at SU if all of the pieces fall into place. At this point though, the quality of those pieces and how they fall is totally on him.

 

[kcsu]

Yep. We also invested in the IPF.

To me, Dino needs to win 7. If he wins only 6, that almost certainly means we went to a bowl (give how the overabundance of bowls has diluted the concept of rewarding a good season) And lost that bowl. That would mean a 6-7 record, which would further mean 5 losing seasons in a six year tenure.

I hope he does get the acceptable number of wins. He has shown he CAN have a great season at SU if all of the pieces fall into place. At this point though, the quality of those pieces and how they fall is totally on him.

Great point Dick. My two cents is we lost a ton when Lewis left. I hope Gilbert has the chops but im not very confident in him. White seems to be the real deal. This is a huge year for the program.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

I think you will find there are some hoops-only fans, some football-only fans but the majority on the board follow both. You are correct in football not being “enjoyable” for much of the past number of years though.

I am a lifelong fan of both plus was a student at SU precisely when Ben chose that moment in time to let the game pass him by. So we sucked, plus I had the pleasure of watching the suckiness while often sitting in puddles on the cold, hard Archbold Stadium steps. It kind of puts our recent struggles in perspective. We have sucked before, we have been good before. We will be both again.

The thing is, we don’t have much of an actual rivalry these days in either sport. To me, a rivalry involves both schools. SU and Georgetown are still rivals...when we actually play...but the intensity has dimmed a lot. Even Patrick Ewing doesn’t evoke the emotions in SU fans as a coach that he once did as a player. Big John is long gone, and with him is a big piece of the rivalry. Same with UCONN. When we play, it still means something but not nearly as much as it used to.

A few rivalries pre-existed us in the ACC and we can never break into those. There are a number of ACC schools that don’t have true, two-sided rivalries, though. We are one of those. Our “natural“ rivals should be Pitt or BC...in both sports, really...but we are nowhere near a true rivalry with either. I like to beat both of them but not as much as I like beating select schools in both sports that we don’t have actual rivalries with. Beating Clemson in football or Duke in hoops means a lot more to me than beating Pitt or BC in either. There is no rivalry there, however.

Finally, for me anyway, being an SU fan has nothing at all to do with past glory. It’s my school, end of story, and I follow both major sports win or lose. Not aimed at you, of course, but I have no interest in what fans in Alabama feel about SU. When a state with one of the lowest rates of education in America spends more on football than the gross national product of a third world nation, then that tells me all I need to know about them anyway.

I have found the people of the Gulf Coast of Alabama some of the warmest I’ve encountered in all my years. I choose not to accept the stereotype of the illiterate country bumpkin that seems to be rampant in our society today.
Dividing people geographically and culturally is the base root of ignorance.
I am not aiming this at you personally.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I have found the people of the Gulf Coast of Alabama some of the warmest I’ve encountered in all my years. I choose not to accept the stereotype of the illiterate country bumpkin that seems to be rampant in our society today.
Dividing people geographically and culturally is the base root of ignorance.
I am not aiming this at you personally.

Nor did I take it personally, as I did none of those things. I was commenting on priorities.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

Nor did I take it personally, as I did none of those things. I was commenting on priorities.

I respect your position, and know neither of us hold ill will, as that serves only to exasperate issues that no one profits from.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I respect your position, and know neither of us hold ill will, as that serves only to exasperate issues that no one profits from.

Agreed. Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.

 

[two3zone]

Babers turned around two football programs. Perhaps our futility is not his fault. We are in a deep hole. Our history is too old to be relevant. We are not attractive to most recruits.

I starting to believe this, we may just be the DePaul of football.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Interesting question - why are Pitt and BC better than us? It takes a large number of football players to make up a team. Perhaps no small number of the players that are on our menu have a preference for location in larger more mainstream cities? We offer neither high visibility nor big city vibe. In addition, our facilities are lacking in some regards. Syracuse seems to be a bit of a harder sell than Boston or Pitt when if comes to football. Just a theory, no more than a guess as to why we are stuck in the doldrums. I don't blame Dino.

 

[sufandu]

Nor did I take it personally, as I did none of those things. I was commenting on priorities.

I live in Knoxville, TN and see the same priorities. It's called the bible belt, but if games were played at 10 am on Sunday, churches would be nearly empty. Football is the religion.

 

[Hoo's That]

BC? Really?

I guess a case could be made for football (personally, I think it’s Pitt), but no way in basketball.

Va Tech's most hated rival is West Virginia?

Ohio State's rival is NOT Michigan?

Add to this USC. Their rival in football is Notre Dame and vice versa, period. That is the game each one wants to win more than any other. The only reason it is not the last game of the year every year is that John McKay got tired of freezing in SB in November, so the game in SB is in October but the last game of the year when they play in LA.

Stereotypical comment by a graduate of the University of Spoiled Children - "UCLA? My maid went to UCLA."

Another one - Maryland doesn't care one whit about West Virginia. Penn State was a rival even when they were in the ACC.

UNC having NC State is questionable. The UNC fans have a hashtag they use about NC State - #notourrival. Quite a few of them dislike the fact that the Duke game was moved to earlier in the year and NC State is now the last game of the year.