Bigs Coach status?

[sufandu]

Teaching any basketball position is less intricate than, say, offensive lineman for football. You don't have to have played the 4 or 5 to teach someone how to block out for rebounds, a drop step, up and under move, defensive positioning, etc. Pete Newell had the most famous big man camp in the world and was about 6 feet tall.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

re: # 2, I understand your conjecture, but as Jake said, Fab's issues were Fab's issues, not SU's.
Don't get the sudden love for BF. His freaky family has tarnished SU and he checked out years ago when Hop was promoted.

Fab's issues became SU's issues, they both paid a price. I don't think this would have happened if BF were here. They never did before under his watch.

Yes, the alledged incidents of BF's freaky family have tarnished SU. But I do have a respect for the job he did. It was missed this last season.

To think you can put any spare part into that job is insulting to the position. SU did that because of a crisis and it bit us. Now it is the offseason and I was hoping it would get fixed.

 

[orangejunkie]

As an undergrad I ran track at Colgate. Our coach was maybe 5'8" and a middle distance runner from Syracuse, he coached our high jumper to the Munich Olympics. You don't have to be over 6'10 to coach the big men. Go to clinics, read up, talk to other big men coaches; and communicate what you learn to the players. This is not rocket science.

 

[hoopsupstate]

A change will happen after JB retires.

 

[OrangeZone]

Fab's issues were his own. If the kid failed (refused) to do his work, what should be done: shoot him? Threaten his family? Break his turn signal? Where (in your opinion) does Fab's responsibility lie? Anywhere?
I thought our bigs did well on the court, and Rak progressed well. You are, IMNSHO, wrong sir and far off base.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

Each and every time someone bad mouths Feb it stems from ignorance of what has actually been the truth with him; I don't expect you or anyone here to know what has actually transpired with this young man; however, the vitriol surrounding the statements made about him, on this board, are very Troy Nunes-like.

Our players don't deserve this type of treatment; it seems that many here enjoy throwing them under the bus; whenever they aren't perfect. Step up to the front of the group here if your behaviors are always perfect.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Teaching any basketball position is less intricate than, say, offensive lineman for football. You don't have to have played the 4 or 5 to teach someone how to block out for rebounds, a drop step, up and under move, defensive positioning, etc. Pete Newell had the most famous big man camp in the world and was about 6 feet tall.

I think you vastly underestimate the skill required of the position. It is much more intricate than an offensive lineman coach. I can't beleive how many people think there is nothing to this job. That any ex-guard can do it.

I am not saying that SU has to get someone who has played in the position. If SU can sway someone with a rep like Pete Newells to take the position, I am certainly on board with that. Those people won't come cheap though. I think with cost considerations it is much more reasonable to review the in-house candidates.

Also, apparently there is more to the position than just what happens on the court. This is an area where Hop failed miserably. And now there are APR considerations to take into account.

If you don't think there is much to the job, wouldn't you then want someone who can relate better to the players? Get someone in the position that rounds out the staff. Who was NN going to relate to? Who could Fab go to when things started to go wrong? No one.

Hop was named Bigs coach because of a realignment during a mid-season crisis. This is not the desired state. It has already had terrible consequences. It is now the off-season. Would seem the logical time to fix it.

 

[Scotch]

I think you vastly underestimate the skill required of the position. It is much more intricate than an offensive lineman coach. I can't beleive how many people think there is nothing to this job. That any ex-guard can do it.

I am not saying that SU has to get someone who has played in the position. If SU can sway someone with a rep like Pete Newells to take the position, I am certainly on board with that. Those people won't come cheap though. I think with cost considerations it is much more reasonable to review the in-house candidates.

Also, apparently there is more to the position than just what happens on the court. This is an area where Hop failed miserably. And now there are APR considerations to take into account.

If you don't think there is much to the job, wouldn't you then want someone who can relate better to the players? Get someone in the position that rounds out the staff. Who was NN going to relate to? Who could Fab go to when things started to go wrong? No one.

Hop was named Bigs coach because of a realignment during a mid-season crisis. This is not the desired state. It has already had terrible consequences. It is now the off-season. Would seem the logical time to fix it.

This hasn't been a great thread for you.

You're placing the majority of the blame for Fab's off the court issues on the coach that happens to handle the big men in practice? You're advocating bringing in DC to coach the bigs even though he has no coaching experience and has never recruited? Pete Newell?

You're saying that the players have nobody to relate to, even though Hopkins is consistently considered one of the most likable guys in the business, both within the program and on the recruiting trail. You don't have to be a former power forward to "relate" to one. And you're completely ignoring the recruiting component of the position, which is even more important than the Xs and Os.

If terrible consequences are going 34-3 and making the elite 8, sign my ass up every time. JB has a fantastic staff in place right now.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

As an undergrad I ran track at Colgate. Our coach was maybe 5'8" and a middle distance runner from Syracuse, he coached our high jumper to the Munich Olympics. You don't have to be over 6'10 to coach the big men. Go to clinics, read up, talk to other big men coaches; and communicate what you learn to the players. This is not rocket science.

Yes, you want the Bigs coach going to clinics, reading up, talking to other big men coaches. I am on board. I want Hop figuring out how to be a head coach. See the problem here?

My original point was it took Bernie a long time to acquire the information to become good at his craft. If you take someone with no experience it is reasonable to expect it will take a while for them to get good. Why do that?

Take R Bouie vs Hop for an example. Who would you rather have for next season? R Bouie would take this thing and dive into it, with the clinics etc referenced above. Hop has a lot of other things on his plate. He is on the road recruiting for one.

This is not Colgate track. It is not cute for SU to have an inappropriate coach. IMO, Hop is not the man for the job, he did not play the position and he can not afford to throw himself into learning the craft. I was hoping SU was going to address this during the off-season.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

OK, this is really going too far. First, Hop knows how to be a head coach right now. Other colleges have wanted him to be their head coach. SU wants him to be head coach when JB leaves.
Second, do some research to understand who Pete Newell is.
Third, the coaches we have right now are doing a fine job. Note record this year. And note Brazilian center who was far too self-centered.

Wow. I guess Hop should just rest on his laurels. He got that offer from St Bonnies, he has nothing more to prove. So now he knows all there is to know about head coaching and can turn his attention to the intricacies of the nuances of the big man moves? And I suppose recruiting is over-rated too. Yes, SU wants Hop to be the coach when JB retires. Lets not confuse that with, Hop knows all there is to know about head coaching.

Why should I research Pete Newell, I don't get it. What do you want to know? I was using Newell as an example of someone with experience coaching big men. That's what he was known for - you should look it up.

How do you know the coaches are doing a fine job right now. Specifically the big man coach. What has Hop done that makes you say that? Last years record was great, but I don't think it is an indicator of how well the new bigs coach is doing.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

This hasn't been a great thread for you.

You're placing the majority of the blame for Fab's off the court issues on the coach that happens to handle the big men in practice? You're advocating bringing in DC to coach the bigs even though he has no coaching experience and has never recruited? Pete Newell?

You're saying that the players have nobody to relate to, even though Hopkins is consistently considered one of the most likable guys in the business, both within the program and on the recruiting trail. You don't have to be a former power forward to "relate" to one. And you're completely ignoring the recruiting component of the position, which is even more important than the Xs and Os.

If terrible consequences are going 34-3 and making the elite 8, sign my ass up every time. JB has a fantastic staff in place right now.

I've been taking some lumps here.

I wasn't assigning percentages for the Fab blame. I was just saying that it seems like an aspect of the function of Hop's new assignment may have been missed. And it had big consequences. It is not a popular theory.

I do believe Hop is a very likeable guy. I am just saying that with more diversity in the coaching staff it might be possible to appeal to more/different types.
I wouldn't mind if the staff decided that the recruiting element of the position was important in the hire. But if you're going to suggest someone with name recognition like DC, you better be prepared for the onslaught.

The terrible consequences were not going 34-3. The terrible consequence was losing someone to academic problems. Seems like a lot of people are having trouble with that one.

Do you really think this would be the staff if the BF event occurred in the off-season?

 

[HOFCeluck]

I am not sure why being a former Syracuse player at that position has to be the alpha and omega of hiring a position coach.

 

[pfister1]

So I guess there is no teaching element to coaching? Anyone that was physically able to perform at a particular position will be able to relate to and teach what they did to another person.....why do you think the guys that are considered the greatest coaches were not necessarily the best players when they played? Many of them don't have the first clue about how to tell someone else how they did what they did - much of it came natural to them.....many others don't have the patience for people who can't quite perform at the level they did.

As for the calls for Bouie and DC...has either of them ever shown an ability to coach at any level or an interest for that matter?

A great coach needs to be able to relate the subject matter to the players in a manner that they can understand, implement and hopefully master. He also needs to be able to motivate them to work and get better. These are skills that have little or nothing to do with playing ability. He doesn't need to have been able to execute post moves on the court at the highest levels.

As for how Hop fared this season, I don't know how one could even begin to grade his performance unless you are involved with the team? If you feel like he underperformed, it might be worth noting that he took over after the beginning of the season in a role he was not expecting to fill, so that seems like a major obstacle if he didn't perform at the level you were hoping for. My guess is that if he is going to stay with the bigs next year he will be much better prepared to do so when next season's practices begin. I have always seen him as a very hard worker, so even if he was very ready to work with the bigs this year and had a great year, I would still expect him to spend the offseason working to improve his understanding of this part of the game.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

So I guess there is no teaching element to coaching? Anyone that was physically able to perform at a particular position will be able to relate to and teach what they did to another person.....why do you think the guys that are considered the greatest coaches were not necessarily the best players when they played? Many of them don't have the first clue about how to tell someone else how they did what they did - much of it came natural to them.....many others don't have the patience for people who can't quite perform at the level they did.

As for the calls for Bouie and DC...has either of them ever shown an ability to coach at any level or an interest for that matter?

A great coach needs to be able to relate the subject matter to the players in a manner that they can understand, implement and hopefully master. He also needs to be able to motivate them to work and get better. These are skills that have little or nothing to do with playing ability. He doesn't need to have been able to execute post moves on the court at the highest levels.

As for how Hop fared this season, I don't know how one could even begin to grade his performance unless you are involved with the team? If you feel like he underperformed, it might be worth noting that he took over after the beginning of the season in a role he was not expecting to fill, so that seems like a major obstacle if he didn't perform at the level you were hoping for. My guess is that if he is going to stay with the bigs next year he will be much better prepared to do so when next season's practices begin. I have always seen him as a very hard worker, so even if he was very ready to work with the bigs this year and had a great year, I would still expect him to spend the offseason working to improve his understanding of this part of the game.

Disqualifying yourself from grading Hops performance speaks volumes (while keeping you in good shape for the invite only pay site).

And you are right, he was thrust into the position. And I agree if he stays on as the bigs coach Hop has the work ethic to prepare himself . The question is, "Should Hop's time be spent on this preparation?". He is the coach in waiting, I was hoping he would be getting the entire overview.

Hop, gmac, and Autry stike me pretty much as the same type. And none of them seem like a bigs coach. I was hoping to get someone more qualified and get Hop out of learning this role. Looks like for that to happen one of the current staff members would have to find another opportunity somewhere - JB is loyal and probably wouldn't fire them. I think the first step will be for SU to find a promotion for gmac somewhere.

 

[bnoro]

I think that may be a big part of the lack of movement. They are probably waiting for one of the guard assistant coaches to find another job. They probably don't want to force anyone out, they would prefer they leave on their own accord.

As for BF, it would certainly be a long shot. There would need to be a public explanation of the tape. There is the idea that rehiring him could be a big boost to SU's rep though. It would send a strong signal that BF was falsely accused. Tough to have a homosexual/bisexual coach though.

Still, I would prefer a different bigs coach. Hop is being groomed for the overall gig. Someone else needs to be learning the bigs role. Hop should be involved in this hire.

Looks like the first step will be watching for one of the guard assistant coaches to find another position.

If Hop's being trained for the HC job, wouldn't it be good for him to teach both bigs and guards so he is more well rounded?

Also, if you really think Bernie was a better coach than Hop for the big men, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Good point. Hopkins has only been preparing for the job for seventeen years.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I'm going to change the focus a bit. Just as coaching success comes down to recruiting success, being a big-man coach really comes down to getting the big man. Whether Hop can or is a good big man coach is less important than his ability to help recruit the best big man each year. Hop is at a severe disadvantage compared to a name brand big man coach regardless of whether the name comes from NBA big-man success or college coaching big-man track record.

The point is moot if we are at our coaching limit, but I agree with the premise that it would be best if we had a name brand big man coach. My reason has nothing to do with coaching, but has everything to do with recruiting. Any big man recruit is going to carefully consider the options for who is going to coach him. He is going to go on reputation and track record. What else can he go in?

 

[sufandu]

I think you vastly underestimate the skill required of the position. It is much more intricate than an offensive lineman coach. I can't beleive how many people think there is nothing to this job. That any ex-guard can do it.

I am not saying that SU has to get someone who has played in the position. If SU can sway someone with a rep like Pete Newells to take the position, I am certainly on board with that. Those people won't come cheap though. I think with cost considerations it is much more reasonable to review the in-house candidates.

Also, apparently there is more to the position than just what happens on the court. This is an area where Hop failed miserably. And now there are APR considerations to take into account.

If you don't think there is much to the job, wouldn't you then want someone who can relate better to the players? Get someone in the position that rounds out the staff. Who was NN going to relate to? Who could Fab go to when things started to go wrong? No one.

Hop was named Bigs coach because of a realignment during a mid-season crisis. This is not the desired state. It has already had terrible consequences. It is now the off-season. Would seem the logical time to fix it.

Hop did not fail miserably. The coaches are limited by the NCAA as to how many hours per week they can spend with players. They don't spend any of them in study hall. Academics are the responsibility of the players and compliance personnel. Your assertion that Fab's academic issues are Hop's fault is assinine.

Neither coach Murphy nor Troy Weaver had been D1 forwards (I don't think they were even D1 players) before they coached the forwards at Syracuse, and they were both quite successful. As someone else pointed out, a good coach can break down skills and learn/self-educate how to teach them to others. In fact quite often players that excelled at what they did are the worst coaches because they relied so much on talent. Unathletic players that worked their butts off to get where they did(does that describe a certain coach in waiting), often become the best coaches. DC becoming a coach won't turn everyone he coaches into the next DC.

Some think Dujuan Coleman may be the most skilled center as a freshman we've ever had. Did his highschool coach play center in college or even highschool basketball?

My comparison between football and basketball was accurate. Their is much more crossover between positions in basketball than there is in football. In football an offensive lineman has completely different skills than a defensive back. In basketball everyone is expected to shoot, pass, rebound, dribble, and defend. Are centers expected to rebound more or block more shots than a point guard? Yes. Physical make-up is the largest determinant of position in basketball, and position largely influences which skills a player focuses on most. However, that doesn't mean players ignore the other skills, because the fact is all skills are necessary to some extent regardless of position.

Your arguments make absolutely no sense, and I'm glad you're not in charge of hiring coaches for our team.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I'm going to change the focus a bit. Just as coaching success comes down to recruiting success, being a big-man coach really comes down to getting the big man. Whether Hop can or is a good big man coach is less important than his ability to help recruit the best big man each year. Hop is at a severe disadvantage compared to a name brand big man coach regardless of whether the name comes from NBA big-man success or college coaching big-man track record.

The point is moot if we are at our coaching limit, but I agree with the premise that it would be best if we had a name brand big man coach. My reason has nothing to do with coaching, but has everything to do with recruiting. Any big man recruit is going to carefully consider the options for who is going to coach him. He is going to go on reputation and track record. What else can he go in?

Thank you Alaska - I knew I liked that State for a reason.

A name brand big man coach would be a great addition to the staff. It would help if SU would crack open the wallet. Listing the past in-house prospects is done more with a budget in mind. Opening up the wallet and hiring a well-known big name would certainly be preferable.

I am somewhat surprised that the hire mid-season appears to have been permanent. I'm hoping they are trying to rearrange. It looks like if the staff was to be changed at this point, one of the guards would need to find another position. Haven't heard anything about that yet.

 

[sufandu]

I'm going to change the focus a bit. Just as coaching success comes down to recruiting success, being a big-man coach really comes down to getting the big man. Whether Hop can or is a good big man coach is less important than his ability to help recruit the best big man each year. Hop is at a severe disadvantage compared to a name brand big man coach regardless of whether the name comes from NBA big-man success or college coaching big-man track record.

The point is moot if we are at our coaching limit, but I agree with the premise that it would be best if we had a name brand big man coach. My reason has nothing to do with coaching, but has everything to do with recruiting. Any big man recruit is going to carefully consider the options for who is going to coach him. He is going to go on reputation and track record. What else can he go in?

Kentucky seems to be recruiting ok without a name big man coach, unless you consider guys that played small forward in college to be big men.

 

[jr4750]

If Hop's being trained for the HC job, wouldn't it be good for him to teach both bigs and guards so he is more well rounded?

Also, if you really think Bernie was a better coach than Hop for the big men, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Speaking of Hop is he working with the Olympic team again?

 

[pfister1]

Speaking of Hop is he working with the Olympic team again?

No they decided they needed a coach who was a star in the International Game instead.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

No they decided they needed a coach who was a star in the International Game instead.

I'm sure the pro centers would be dying to work under the tutelage of Hop.