Boeheim's ejection 1 year later

[Eric15]

After Boeheim was ejected last year at Duke, a lot of people here argued that it was actually a good thing it happened, because we have to stand up for ourselves to the officials who always seem to side with Duke.

My question is: do folks still agree with that assertion, or were people just caught up in the emotion of that game? I only ask because it seemed like the refs missed some very blatant calls Saturday night that hurt us.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Refs are not good, no matter who is playing. The game is too fast for them to see. I have maintained that there should be an additional ref watching a tv monitor. It will never happen.

 

[HOFCeluck]

After Boeheim was ejected last year at Duke, a lot of people here argued that it was actually a good thing it happened, because we have to stand up for ourselves to the officials who always seem to side with Duke.

My question is: do folks still agree with that assertion, or were people just caught up in the emotion of that game? I only ask because it seemed like the refs missed some very blatant calls Saturday night that hurt us.

yes

 

[jordoo]

The problem is much bigger than Duke or UNC its the system, lack of oversight, lack of consequences, lack of incentives and of course absolutely NO review or evaluations after the fact.

 

[Eric15]

The problem is much bigger than Duke or UNC its the system, lack of oversight, lack of consequences, lack of incentives and of course absolutely NO review or evaluations after the fact.

Agreed - but people argued specifically that Boeheim getting ejected would be beneficial to the SU program in the long-term. I'm just curious if folks still feel that way, and if there have been any dividends as a result of the ejection.

 

[Toga]

Agreed - but people argued specifically that Boeheim getting ejected would be beneficial to the SU program in the long-term. I'm just curious if folks still feel that way, and if there have been any dividends as a result of the ejection.

IDK about this year, but I recall some observers last year thought it had a negative effect on calls the remainder of the year.

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm not against JB losing his cool. It's not like he's Buzz or someone like Knight.

I think we still had an outside shot at winning that game if he doesn't get T'd up, so from that stand point it would have been good to avoid it.

But at the same time, it was a terrible call in a tight game and that team needed some fire. Fine how it went.

 

[pfister1]

The problem is much bigger than Duke or UNC its the system, lack of oversight, lack of consequences, lack of incentives and of course absolutely NO review or evaluations after the fact.

People want to compare NCAA officiating to professional officiating. I think there is oversight and review, but the volume of games and referees needed to officiate those games makes it difficult to do this with individual officials as the professional leagues do. There are 347 Schools playing Division I basketball. If they each play a 30+ game schedule, i think that translates into something like 5,000+ games. It's got to be an absolutely huge job to try to manage quality control with college officiating on the individual official level at those volumes.

We are nitpicking individual calls that in most cases are judgment calls and may or may not be changed if you were to have the opportunity to review film in slow motion. If guys are making egregious mistakes, they should get a call from the league office maybe. If they are repeatedly making egregious mistakes than maybe you look at consequences, but I just think the volume of officials, games and calls is too great to have the kind of of oversight and review process you might see in the NFL, NBA or even MLB.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Boeheim still looks foolish a year later.

 

[jordoo]

People want to compare NCAA officiating to professional officiating. I think there is oversight and review, but the volume of games and referees needed to officiate those games makes it difficult to do this with individual officials as the professional leagues do. There are 347 Schools playing Division I basketball. If they each play a 30+ game schedule, i think that translates into something like 5,000+ games. It's got to be an absolutely huge job to try to manage quality control with college officiating on the individual official level at those volumes.

We are nitpicking individual calls that in most cases are judgment calls and may or may not be changed if you were to have the opportunity to review film in slow motion. If guys are making egregious mistakes, they should get a call from the league office maybe. If they are repeatedly making egregious mistakes than maybe you look at consequences, but I just think the volume of officials, games and calls is too great to have the kind of of oversight and review process you might see in the NFL, NBA or even MLB.

Yes it would cost "GASP" a lot of money but the student athletes are making everyone a lot of money. The NCAA, the schools, the coaches, the media ect. I understand its on a completely different scale but it needs to be done at some point or they will lose more and more fans. This is a board with some serious college bball fans and I have seen more sentiment to not caring about any games other than SU games this year than ever before. Watch a game with two teams you don't care about and aren't familiar with, put it on mute and be amazed at how horrible the officiating is.

 

[Marsh01]

I thought the officiating for the most part was fine Sat. Rak could have been called for 9 fouls so lets keep that in mind.

 

[stuckinbig11]

The problem is much bigger than Duke or UNC its the system, lack of oversight, lack of consequences, lack of incentives and of course absolutely NO review or evaluations after the fact.

Good call. It's too bad that the NCAA does not have review system that results in a monetary loss for every blown call by a referee. Heck, some refs would end up paying more money back than they earned.

 

[jordoo]

Good call. It's too bad that the NCAA does not have review system that results in a monetary loss for every blown call by a referee. Heck, some refs would end up paying more money back than they earned.

It doesn't even have to be loss. The better you are grade out the better conferences you generally work, and conference tourneys and post season tourneys all bringing with them bonuses and pay raises. The worse you are you basically find your self never getting raises and banished to the far end of D1 bball.

 

[Eric15]

I think refs are like meteorologists. They're right 98% of the time, and you take it for granted. And when they're wrong (like human beings tend to be from time to time because they're human), everyone loses their mind.

 

[Brooky03]

It has minimal impact, if any, one way or the other.

I was okay with it at the time and I'm still okay with it. I don't think it cost us that game and I doubt it's influenced any calls in subsequent games, especially not this far down the road. It's a non-issue in my book.

 

[jordoo]

I think refs are like meteorologists. They're right 98% of the time, and you take it for granted. And when they're wrong (like human beings tend to be from time to time because they're human), everyone loses their mind.

I don't think this is accurate at all on either the weather report or the officials in college bball this day and age if you take into consideration non calls on traveling, 3 seconds, moving screens and coaches being out of the box they are pretty much constantly missing a call. Weather is pretty easy to be in the ballpark but they are rarely dead on. Look its winter we know its going to be cold, it was cold yesterday to the west of us so it will be about that temperature hear in a day and a half.

 

[Eric15]

I don't think it cost us that game

It was a 2 point game with I believe 10 seconds left. Villanova beat us this year down 5 points with 13 seconds left.

Obviously it was a dire situation, but nowhere close to be insurmountable.

 

[Brooky03]

It was a 2 point game with I believe 10 seconds left. Villanova beat us this year down 5 points with 13 seconds left.

Obviously it was a dire situation, but nowhere close to be insurmountable.

Not saying it was insurmountable. Just saying I don't think it cost us the game.

 

[Madbiker]

Seems that Duke does a lot less flopping this year in the TV games I have seen them play. I think the refs have cracked down on flopping overall. But I don't know if our game last year had a lot to do with it. Maybe some in raising the issue of flopping.

 

[OttoMets]

After Boeheim was ejected last year at Duke, a lot of people here argued that it was actually a good thing it happened, because we have to stand up for ourselves to the officials who always seem to side with Duke.

My question is: do folks still agree with that assertion, or were people just caught up in the emotion of that game? I only ask because it seemed like the refs missed some very blatant calls Saturday night that hurt us.

I was one of those fans. It was a reasonable assertion.

I miscalculated.

The referees crushed us in the next couple games (the Maryland game comes to mind), apparently letting it be known that they don't like when coaches show up their colleagues. 15 months after elimination of physical play was to be a point of emphasis, the game is rougher and the officiating sloppier than ever before. And, if Boeheim's radio show comments are accurate, he's not even willing to file complaints over officiating anymore.

The whole thing stinks. But I'm still fully supportive of Boeheim's behavior last season.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think this is accurate at all on either the weather report or the officials in college bball this day and age if you take into consideration non calls on traveling, 3 seconds, moving screens and coaches being out of the box they are pretty much constantly missing a call. Weather is pretty easy to be in the ballpark but they are rarely dead on. Look its winter we know its going to be cold, it was cold yesterday to the west of us so it will be about that temperature hear in a day and a half.

Exactly. And the play in the post.

Their failure to make the right calls in these situations is deliberate.

 

[stuckinbig11]

It doesn't even have to be loss. The better you are grade out the better conferences you generally work, and conference tourneys and post season tourneys all bringing with them bonuses and pay raises. The worse you are you basically find your self never getting raises and banished to the far end of D1 bball.

Agreed, but there are still certain refs that should find themselves in the poorhouse.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think he took it far enough.

 

[BuffOrange]

I think refs are like meteorologists. They're right 98% of the time, and you take it for granted. And when they're wrong (like human beings tend to be from time to time because they're human), everyone loses their mind.

I don't think this is accurate at all on either the weather report or the officials in college bball this day and age if you take into consideration non calls on traveling, 3 seconds, moving screens and coaches being out of the box they are pretty much constantly missing a call. Weather is pretty easy to be in the ballpark but they are rarely dead on. Look its winter we know its going to be cold, it was cold yesterday to the west of us so it will be about that temperature hear in a day and a half.

Baseball is really the only sport where it's even remotely possible to assign a %. The others are the best to officiate because you get it both ways - mumble something about 'judgement calls' (implying they can't be wrong which is nonsense), yet also include them as 'correct' in the mythical 98%.
Cake eaten. Good deal.

 

[two3zone]

After Boeheim was ejected last year at Duke, a lot of people here argued that it was actually a good thing it happened, because we have to stand up for ourselves to the officials who always seem to side with Duke. My question is: do folks still agree with that assertion, or were people just caught up in the emotion of that game? I only ask because it seemed like the refs missed some very blatant calls Saturday night that hurt us.

I've always heard when a coach does those things it "fires up" the team. I know it's a different sport but saw a study by baseball prospectus that it literally had no effect in current games and future games. I have to believe it would be throughout sports.