Boston U Gameday...

[DoctahLexus]

I thought the same after it had happened a couple of times. If the shot was the strategy then you need to put someone on the endline and if it wasn't the strategy it only needed to happen once before I'd tell an attackman to park back there.

In general, the long range shot just does not feel like the right move to counter a 10 man. Often the goalie or a defender has time to get in front and block it. Even if you do have an attack ready to get the backup, it takes so long for the shot to get there that a defender can get right by the end line too and make it a 50/50 on which team backs up the shot. A turnover just seems way more likely than a goal.

 

[LaxAddict38]

It is one of many potential answers. Saying "Don't shoot" can also come back to bite you. What do you do if they cover every single player except the one with the ball? If the goal is open it's the right move for him to shoot it and for you to back it up. If they're hedging off of attackmen to cover the goal, then you can look to the attack.

St. Joe's runs a better 10-man ride, traditionally, than BU. So they need to make sure they have all options ready to roll by next time. Needs to be significantly cleaner.

 

[Faegan]

In general, the long range shot just does not feel like the right move to counter a 10 man. Often the goalie or a defender has time to get in front and block it. Even if you do have an attack ready to get the backup, it takes so long for the shot to get there that a defender can get right by the end line too and make it a 50/50 on which team backs up the shot. A turnover just seems way more likely than a goal.

That we're still struggling against it was one of the most frustrating aspects of yesterday's game. It's only game 1 but every fan who pays the least bit of attention to the program knew that this was an important hole to address in the off season. It didn't look like it got the attention it deserved. It's only one game so I hope I'm proven wrong.

 

[Faegan]

Another frustrating element of yesterday's game was when there were 4 defenders around our player with the ball and nobody seemed to show up. Follow the slide on O and do the same on the clear! I haven't coached in a while and I've only coached Rec so I'm not going to pretend to know much about how to break the 10 man, but if there are 3-4 guys on ball there should obviously be help nearby.

 

[DoctahLexus]

That we're still struggling against it was one of the most frustrating aspects of yesterday's game. It's only game 1 but every fan who pays the least bit of attention to the program knew that this was an important hole to address in the off season. It didn't look like it got the attention it deserved. It's only one game so I hope I'm proven wrong.

A part of it is that the 10 man ride makes every team look this way. It creates a lot of chaos and makes any team struggle. First game and a lot of new faces in the rope unit/middle of the field. I am not surprised at all by the errors. 10 man is not a ride strategy that has one easy solution that can be taught to teams by coaches. If it did then teams would stop using it. You basically need your guys to fend off some serious pressure with the clock ticking, and no amount of coaching can prevent that situation from happening. I am glad we at least tried some wrinkles like bringing Spallina and Leo over half field when the long range shot method was not working.

 

[Orangello]

Another frustrating element of yesterday's game was when there were 4 defenders around our player with the ball and nobody seemed to show up. Follow the slide on O and do the same on the clear! I haven't coached in a while and I've only coached Rec so I'm not going to pretend to know much about how to break the 10 man, but if there are 3-4 guys on ball there should obviously be help nearby.

This is mystifying to me. It's like the help runs away from the man trying to clear. This has got to be worked on big time.

 

[JeremyCuse]

It is one of many potential answers. Saying "Don't shoot" can also come back to bite you. What do you do if they cover every single player except the one with the ball? If the goal is open it's the right move for him to shoot it and for you to back it up. If they're hedging off of attackmen to cover the goal, then you can look to the attack.

St. Joe's runs a better 10-man ride, traditionally, than BU. So they need to make sure they have all options ready to roll by next time. Needs to be significantly cleaner.

BU had I think the best defensive clearing % in the country last year but your right that St. Joes 10 man ride is also usually really good as well. I wish I could say that I expected yesterdays struggles to mean SU will be more prepared for it this Saturday but history says they won't be. Staff is gonna have to come up with something because they're gonna see it at minimum 2-3 more times this year and probably more after yesterday.

 

[JeremyCuse]

This is mystifying to me. It's like the help runs away from the man trying to clear. This has got to be worked on big time.

When SU started running an attack guy over they were open but there was so much chaos the long pole in most cases never saw him. SU did try a few other intricacies late that worked but they appeared to be more of one offs versus a specific strategy.

Shooting on the open net is fine but Dwan probably shouldn't be the guy if he's not gonna remotely close save for 1 shot. There was also miscommunication with the attackmen because twice when he did shoot they were halfway of the field and lost the backup easily.

SU a few times got it over before they could set up but then we got gun shy and slowed it down as soon as they started to set up the 10 man. I like Bowen but he needs to find an extra gear if he has it, looks like he's jogging out there at times.

 

[CusefanATL]

It is one of many potential answers. Saying "Don't shoot" can also come back to bite you. What do you do if they cover every single player except the one with the ball? If the goal is open it's the right move for him to shoot it and for you to back it up. If they're hedging off of attackmen to cover the goal, then you can look to the attack.

St. Joe's runs a better 10-man ride, traditionally, than BU. So they need to make sure they have all options ready to roll by next time. Needs to be significantly cleaner.

keep a midfielder near the sideline and midfield. and then mid and defensemen just swap sides

 

[outoftownie]

Two easy strategies that did not seem to be used much is to have a middie come deeper into the defensive zone to get the ball out of pole/goalie hands and to isolate, then bring the attacker covered by the goalie as close to midfield as possible. Anderson rarely went passed the 35 yard line when he was marked by their goalie, gotta move and make the goalie decide how far they want to roam.

 

[ColdAnger]

I’m going to offer a little different take. I think the clearing strategies were solid but the execution needs work.

Cuse started with a stretch and skip approach where McCool draws the first rider and then you attack the weak side with a long diagonal pass. They got the first part but the pass tended to be a lateral over pass without getting it upfield on the weak side. This is largely a spacing, “do your job” issue that can improve.

They modified into a “middle flash” concept with Joey and Leo. Here we struggled largely on timing of the flash which has to be right as McCool commits the first rider. The shorty needs to make an immediate decision to turn upfield if it’s open or touch pass it back to a defender who looks for a second cutting shorty as the ride repositions to the pole.

The long shots were last options after the earlier execution failed. Spacing and speed of decision making will make us better. Opening with BU and St.Joes should make us better.

 

[HtownOrange]

Regarding the clear and the 10-man ride, fundamentally, the clear is no different than breaking the press in hoops.

In some instances, spreading the players out so the ball handler can beat his man in isolation.

In some instances, help is needed because the ball handler cannot beat his man in isolation.

Often, a combination is necessary. Too many individual players forget that a double team means he has an open man and should be looking for the open man. A good point guard often likes a double team as he is always looking for the open guy. Likewise in lacrosse, the ball handler needs to be opportunistic, looking for the open man. The remainder of the team needs to be cognizant that he will need help from time to time. Breaking a press or clearing a 10-man ride is easy in concept. Like all sports, the mental side is the difficult portion of the equation (sorry, had to bring math into the discussion).

Coaches need to spend a little time periodically reminding kids that beating the 10-man ride is just applying fundamentals for the length of the field instead of just half the field.

Just this fan's opinion.

 

[cuselaxss26]

Little off topic here but i’m very curious. Anyone have any info on what birthwistle played this weekend fkr ohio state ? Saw he had a goal believe. Just curious how much time he saw n if still running out of midfield. Wish kid best n wanted to see if anyone knew anything. I plan to watch ohio state games when can just for him. Pa kid so gotta cheer him on.

 

[GrowTheGame]

Little off topic here but i’m very curious. Anyone have any info on what birthwistle played this weekend fkr ohio state ? Saw he had a goal believe. Just curious how much time he saw n if still running out of midfield. Wish kid best n wanted to see if anyone knew anything. I plan to watch ohio state games when can just for him. Pa kid so gotta cheer him on.

He started at attack and went 1&1 from the box score (didn’t watch game)

 

[JeremyCuse]

Regarding the clear and the 10-man ride, fundamentally, the clear is no different than breaking the press in hoops.

In some instances, spreading the players out so the ball handler can beat his man in isolation.

In some instances, help is needed because the ball handler cannot beat his man in isolation.

Often, a combination is necessary. Too many individual players forget that a double team means he has an open man and should be looking for the open man. A good point guard often likes a double team as he is always looking for the open guy. Likewise in lacrosse, the ball handler needs to be opportunistic, looking for the open man. The remainder of the team needs to be cognizant that he will need help from time to time. Breaking a press or clearing a 10-man ride is easy in concept. Like all sports, the mental side is the difficult portion of the equation (sorry, had to bring math into the discussion).

Coaches need to spend a little time periodically reminding kids that beating the 10-man ride is just applying fundamentals for the length of the field instead of just half the field.

Just this fan's opinion.

SU did have a guy open on multiple occasions as you noted, McCool hit a guy with a great sideline pass (not an easy one to make either) and we had another up the sideline where BU doubled and the SSDM I think was wide open and we hit him. At time SU did exactly what you noted where a long pole or the SSDM would come up the middle of the field and BU would collapse so at least one guy if not more was open, problem was the guy either panicked and passed it backward or just completely missed the open guy. As someone mentioned above Bear should really be the guy coming over to look for the pass with his height and size. To many times Joey and or Leo got lost in the Chaos/wash.

I did actually like that SU was taking shots at the empty net as in years pass we'd either fail to advance or just turn it over trying to make a pass we had no shot of completing. We likely need to let someone besides Dwan though take a crack at it though. Chuck K seems like a guy who should get a shot (assuming he's not subbing out) I'd also give Leo and Joey the green light when they come over if their still under pressure, Joey bagged one vs Gate last year.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I’m going to offer a little different take. I think the clearing strategies were solid but the execution needs work.

Cuse started with a stretch and skip approach where McCool draws the first rider and then you attack the weak side with a long diagonal pass. They got the first part but the pass tended to be a lateral over pass without getting it upfield on the weak side. This is largely a spacing, “do your job” issue that can improve.

They modified into a “middle flash” concept with Joey and Leo. Here we struggled largely on timing of the flash which has to be right as McCool commits the first rider. The shorty needs to make an immediate decision to turn upfield if it’s open or touch pass it back to a defender who looks for a second cutting shorty as the ride repositions to the pole.

The long shots were last options after the earlier execution failed. Spacing and speed of decision making will make us better. Opening with BU and St.Joes should make us better.

SU definitely had a plan but it often looked like if whatever the call was at the time be it "middle flash" as you noted or the "stretch and skip" wasn't there we would panic and either stop advancing the ball or heave a desperation pass even if their was still time left to clear.

We were slightly better in the 2nd half so maybe we can build on that vs St. Joes. Still feels like if Dwan could have hit a few of those long shots it opens everything up. I like that strategy as I noted but he needs way more practice as 90% of his shots weren't' close.

 

[HtownOrange]

SU did have a guy open on multiple occasions as you noted, McCool hit a guy with a great sideline pass (not an easy one to make either) and we had another up the sideline where BU doubled and the SSDM I think was wide open and we hit him. At time SU did exactly what you noted where a long pole or the SSDM would come up the middle of the field and BU would collapse so at least one guy if not more was open, problem was the guy either panicked and passed it backward or just completely missed the open guy. As someone mentioned above Bear should really be the guy coming over to look for the pass with his height and size. To many times Joey and or Leo got lost in the Chaos/wash.

I did actually like that SU was taking shots at the empty net as in years pass we'd either fail to advance or just turn it over trying to make a pass we had no shot of completing. We likely need to let someone besides Dwan though take a crack at it though. Chuck K seems like a guy who should get a shot (assuming he's not subbing out) I'd also give Leo and Joey the green light when they come over if their still under pressure, Joey bagged one vs Gate last year.

Great post and analysis! I enjoy the shots on an empty goal, it may not happen as much as we like but it will force a goalie to stay home instead of taking on an O-player.

Panicking and passing backwards are usually wrong. Attack. We were taught up attack a press. I never played lacrosse (I know, it borders on sacrilegious for a CNY kid), but as I recall, when SU was a fixture in the final four every year, those teams always attacked.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

 

[wgdsr]

Little off topic here but i’m very curious. Anyone have any info on what birthwistle played this weekend fkr ohio state ? Saw he had a goal believe. Just curious how much time he saw n if still running out of midfield. Wish kid best n wanted to see if anyone knew anything. I plan to watch ohio state games when can just for him. Pa kid so gotta cheer him on.

he's running ones with sharp (yale) and white, a soph who had a decent 1st year. osu has marinier, haas and melendez @ attack.
looks like he's moving around pretty well. his points @ the 10 and 18 minute marks:

 

[Powellfan]

Overall a good performance from the Orange. I am more encouraged by the fact that the defense overperformed, and perhaps the offense underperformed than the other way around. I liked the play of the shorties, the two players I was most concerned about forced two turnovers (Ochoa and Spallina). If I had one complaint is that SU struggled again on picks this game - both of Shannehan's goals came when he got switched off of Figuerias and had a free run at a shorty. That was an issue last year as well.

And speaking of Figuerias, he looked great. Aggressive and didn't let his mark get a step. Shannehan is a legit talent and he didn't give him an inch.

Offensively, I can't lie and say I wasn't expecting a bit more. Thomson had a rough day - three missed shots (all off target) and four turnovers, which, for a guy who hardly has the ball in his stick, is pretty alarming. I still kind of wonder about how they are using him. He racked up a bunch of assists as a midfielder, but as an attackman they just use him on the crease as a finisher. I think he's more than that. Hopefully they let his role expand as the season goes along.

The younger players looked good to me. Anderson did what you would expect of him - nice finish on the Spallina pass and his typical power dodge to the crease. Didn't force anything and played smart - especially his end of half pass to Hottle. Curious if/when they might give the sophomore more opportunities. Lots of mouths to feed on offense, but he should get lots looks.

Also shout out to Ohiomilax who mentioned Rawson as a possible member of the Man-up unit. He struggled a bit with one missed wide open chance and a tough turnover when he should have shot it, but hopefully the youngster gets some confidence. Also looked like Anderson made the unit as well, he's got a big shot so he'll fit in. 0-3 isn't great, but have to think they'll get better.

Anyways, first game so it's easy to draw a bunch of conclusions. Perhaps I am just burned a bit from a few years ago when the team scored like 24 goals against Holy Cross, and then proceeded to win just three more games that year. But a lot will change over the next few games. This is just one data point down. Good to be 1-0 but lots to work on, which is both frustrating and exciting at the same time.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

100 percent on the struggles with picks. Lack of communication is still an issue. Ochoa jammed the one perfectly but we had a few where guys were getting wide open shots because there wasn't a switch.

It needs to be better by Maryland. Their guys don't beat anyone without picks.

 

[tbonezone]

Great post and analysis! I enjoy the shots on an empty goal, it may not happen as much as we like but it will force a goalie to stay home instead of taking on an O-player.

don't understand how we don't have one player whose sole job it is to back up on the ten man ride . there is no offsides in lacrosse. if the long poles have the green light to shoot than have somebody behind the net. otherwise dumb turnover.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Overall a good performance from the Orange. I am more encouraged by the fact that the defense overperformed, and perhaps the offense underperformed than the other way around. I liked the play of the shorties, the two players I was most concerned about forced two turnovers (Ochoa and Spallina). If I had one complaint is that SU struggled again on picks this game - both of Shannehan's goals came when he got switched off of Figuerias and had a free run at a shorty. That was an issue last year as well.

And speaking of Figuerias, he looked great. Aggressive and didn't let his mark get a step. Shannehan is a legit talent and he didn't give him an inch.

Offensively, I can't lie and say I wasn't expecting a bit more. Thomson had a rough day - three missed shots (all off target) and four turnovers, which, for a guy who hardly has the ball in his stick, is pretty alarming. I still kind of wonder about how they are using him. He racked up a bunch of assists as a midfielder, but as an attackman they just use him on the crease as a finisher. I think he's more than that. Hopefully they let his role expand as the season goes along.

The younger players looked good to me. Anderson did what you would expect of him - nice finish on the Spallina pass and his typical power dodge to the crease. Didn't force anything and played smart - especially his end of half pass to Hottle. Curious if/when they might give the sophomore more opportunities. Lots of mouths to feed on offense, but he should get lots looks.

Also shout out to Ohiomilax who mentioned Rawson as a possible member of the Man-up unit. He struggled a bit with one missed wide open chance and a tough turnover when he should have shot it, but hopefully the youngster gets some confidence. Also looked like Anderson made the unit as well, he's got a big shot so he'll fit in. 0-3 isn't great, but have to think they'll get better.

Anyways, first game so it's easy to draw a bunch of conclusions. Perhaps I am just burned a bit from a few years ago when the team scored like 24 goals against Holy Cross, and then proceeded to win just three more games that year. But a lot will change over the next few games. This is just one data point down. Good to be 1-0 but lots to work on, which is both frustrating and exciting at the same time.

Only area that I would disagree slightly is with Thomson. Not a good day finishing the ball, but he was making a ton happen setting picks. At least three of Spallina's points were directly off of picks from Thomson. A couple he got free to score because of the pick, and at least one, the cross-field assist to Anderson, Thomson's pick got Joey matched up on the short stick, which drew all the attention that got Anderson open. Spallina did a nice job of pointing him out during the celebration. On that alone he was very useful. And I do not expect the finishing issues to continue. He was inconsistent as a sophomore but very reliable last year when healthy. Had one of the best shooting percentages on the team. Those shots will fall as the season goes on.

 

[wgdsr]

Only area that I would disagree slightly is with Thomson. Not a good day finishing the ball, but he was making a ton happen setting picks. At least three of Spallina's points were directly off of picks from Thomson. A couple he got free to score because of the pick, and at least one, the cross-field assist to Anderson, Thomson's pick got Joey matched up on the short stick, which drew all the attention that got Anderson open. Spallina did a nice job of pointing him out during the celebration. On that alone he was very useful. And I do not expect the finishing issues to continue. He was inconsistent as a sophomore but very reliable last year when healthy. Had one of the best shooting percentages on the team. Those shots will fall as the season goes on.

those also weren't all his turnovers. they were just credited to him.

 

[DoctahLexus]

those also weren't all his turnovers. they were just credited to him.

I think on at least a couple he got stuffed and then fell in the crease. Those definitely should count as his in the books. Looks like Spallina got credit for 3 and Thomson got 4. Would have to look again but at least one of those should have probably gone to Spallina instead of Thomson. A pass into traffic that you can't handle should go to the passer.