Brad Stevens needs to give AO a percentage of his salary

[slidingdown]

Has this point been made previously? If AO is healthy, Butler goes down, no doubt in my mind. Stevens stays a decent coach at a decent mid-level, but has nowhere near the rep he needs to get a sniff at the NBA. Doesn't get the recruits he needs to make it to the championship game against UConn, neither.

 

[joct]

Not to mention the guy that tackled Joseph under the basket...which confused the ref so much he not only missed that call, but then gave Butler the ball when it went out out of bounds even though he was under the basket and it went out in the corner...which lead a 3 to cut it to 1 instead of us going up by 6 with FTs

 

[CorduroyG]

Not to mention the guy that tackled Joseph under the basket...which confused the ref so much he not only missed that call, but then gave Butler the ball when it went out out of bounds even though he was under the basket and it went out in the corner...which lead a 3 to cut it to 1 instead of us going up by 6 with FTs

without a doubt the biggest sequence in that game. butler was DONE, they hadnt scored in awhile and had no clue on offense. refs dont call that foul, they get the ball out of bounds, then hit the 3 off the inbounds with shot clock winding down to cut it to 1. we panicked from that point on.

 

[cap2nine]

Has this point been made previously? If AO is healthy, Butler goes down, no doubt in my mind. Stevens stays a decent coach at a decent mid-level, but has nowhere near the rep he needs to get a sniff at the NBA. Doesn't get the recruits he needs to make it to the championship game against UConn, neither.

Although I agree that we'd beat Butler with a healthy AO I think it's fair to say that Stevens and his team deserve their reputation. After getting by us they beat #2 seeded K State and then Tom Izzo's Spartans. Following it up with a return to the championship game the very next year and with a very unremarkable recruiting class that included no 4 or 5 star recruits. Would a loss to us have squashed their psyche for the next season? Possibly but I'm willing to give Stevens his due, even if I think he'll have a poor showing with the Celtics.

 

[pfister1]

They don't award a "wooda/shouda won" championship.

Sometimes you just have to take history as it actually unfolded. Butler won, we lost. Brad Stevens' coaching record is what it is...there are no asterisks next to his record and we still only have 2003. There are probably at least 10 teams each year that could lay claim to the championship if only this had happened or this hadn't happened.

 

[007]

Has this point been made previously? If AO is healthy, Butler goes down, no doubt in my mind. Stevens stays a decent coach at a decent mid-level, but has nowhere near the rep he needs to get a sniff at the NBA. Doesn't get the recruits he needs to make it to the championship game against UConn, neither.

So...how did Stevens manage to get Butler in position to beat SU in the first place? There was already NBA talent on that squad and they were very well coached.

AO injury not withstanding, Stevens would still be the Celtics coach today.

 

[PeteCalvin]

So...how did Stevens manage to get Butler in position to beat SU in the first place? There was already NBA talent on that squad and they were very well coached.

AO injury not withstanding, Stevens would still be the Celtics coach today.

No. He wouldn't. With AO, SU beats Butler by double digits. Stevens has no Cinderella run to the championship game. Then they don't come into the next season with all the accolades and expectations. Stevens is not the cover-boy coach. Maybe they make a run that second year like they actually did, but there is no question his star power was the result of back-to-back trips to the title game. A loss to SU makes a huge difference in the media perception of Stevens and Butler.

He's a good coach, and would have probably made the NBA at some point, but to suggest he'd be having today's press conference with Danny Ainge had Butler not gone back-to-back...no way is that a slam dunk. I'm not convinced.

 

[007]

No. He wouldn't. With AO, SU beats Butler by double digits. Stevens has no Cinderella run to the championship game. Then they don't come into the next season with all the accolades and expectations. Stevens is not the cover-boy coach. Maybe they make a run that second year like they actually did, but there is no question his star power was the result of back-to-back trips to the title game. A loss to SU makes a huge difference in the media perception of Stevens and Butler.

He's a good coach, and would have probably made the NBA at some point, but to suggest he'd be having today's press conference with Danny Ainge had Butler not gone back-to-back...no way is that a slam dunk. I'm not convinced.

That's fair, Pete. There is no doubt that the win over SU contributed significantly to Steven's trajectory and perception. No doubt. I guess I am assuming that Boston hired Stevens on more than media perception. The guy can coach and apparently has a rep within NBA circles and scouts. The length of his contract speaks volumes.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Why did you guys have to ruin my day by reminding me of THE SUPLEX which was made legal for that game only. God I hate Butler.

 

[PoppyHart]

What would be a fair percentage to pay AO? Maybe Stevens should simply double AO's 2012-13 salary.

 

[orangedave]

They don't award a "wooda/shouda won" championship.

Sometimes you just have to take history as it actually unfolded. Butler won, we lost. Brad Stevens' coaching record is what it is...there are no asterisks next to his record and we still only have 2003. There are probably at least 10 teams each year that could lay claim to the championship if only this had happened or this hadn't happened.

Couldn't agree more - there are no do overs. I think I'll file the original post with all those which claim that without the AO injury and Fab's screw ups, we'd have 3 NC's now.

 

[HOFCeluck]

...and if Hakim Warrick was a step slow we might have zero NCs.

 

[Eric15]

If AO is healthy, Butler goes down, no doubt in my mind.

It would certainly increase our chances of winning, but by no means would it have been a guarantee. We were a great team that year, but we weren't unbeatable. We lost three games to relatively mediocre Louisville/Pitt teams, and then 8th seeded Georgetown was in control of the BET game before AO got hurt.

2010 was arguably my favorite Syracuse team ever, but I feel like every year that goes by SU fans tend to look back on that team more and more like they were the 1992 Dream Team.

 

[OttoMets]

Ifs and buts.

And Syracuse still didn't come to play that night.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Ifs and buts.

And Syracuse still didn't come to play that night.

Yep...it cannot be overstated that WE SHOULD HAVE WON ANYWAY.

 

[Alsacs]

I guess Jim Boeheim should cut a check to Tulane University for overpaying for Roy Danforth. This thread is dumb, if AO plays we have a better chance for sure, but nobody knows what would have happened fouls, injuries in the game, etc. Also, the following year when Butler made the Final Four run I guess Gilbert Brown the Pitt player who fouled Shelvin Mack 90 feet from the basket should be given a percentage of Stevens salary as well.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Guys, GUYS, you're missing the point here.

The point is to take a big, steaming dump on Stevens. That's the point. Saying we don't know what happens if AO plays just constipates the free flowing discussion about how crappy Stevens is we all desire.

Eye on the prize, gentlemen.

 

[Alsacs]

Also, if AO doesn't get hurt its doubtful we play Butler in the sweet 16. We were the 4th 1 seed because AO got hurt if AO doesn't get hurt we are likely the 3rd 1 seed in Houston and play Purdue and Duke is in SLC playing Butler. The woulda coulda shoulda game applies multiple ways, and what freshman recruits did Butler rely on the following year?

 

[PoppyHart]

Also, if AO doesn't get hurt its doubtful we play Butler in the sweet 16. We were the 4th 1 seed because AO got hurt if AO doesn't get hurt we are likely the 3rd 1 seed in Houston and play Purdue and Duke is in SLC playing Butler. The woulda coulda shoulda game applies multiple ways, and what freshman recruits did Butler rely on the following year?

Only Marshall. It's also conceivable Hayward returns, and Mack stays for his senior year.

 

[OttoMets]

Yep...it cannot be overstated that WE SHOULD HAVE WON ANYWAY.

I'm a broken record on this particular topic, but I'm going to try and dispel the myth every time it's presented on here.

We'd just thrashed Gonzaga four or five days before; we'd had them down 70-something to 30-something[EDIT - not quite; we led 70-41 and later by 32] before Boeheim took mercy on Few and slowed it down and emptied the bench. We were a very good team without Onuaku and we just never got off the bus for the Butler game. Worst performance of the year, yet we still retook the lead late before frittering it away.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm a broken record on this particular topic, but I'm going to try and dispel the myth every time it's presented on here.

We'd just thrashed Gonzaga four or five days before; we'd had them down 70-something to 30-something[EDIT - not quite; we led 70-41 and later by 32] before Boeheim took mercy on Few and slowed it down and emptied the bench. We were a very good team without Onuaku and we just never got off the bus for the Butler game. Worst performance of the year, yet we still retook the lead late before frittering it away.

And people forget, weird things happened that game. The tackle non call. Their point guard that shot in the teens on 3s swishing one from really deep with the shot clock expiring. The other guy making the three that hit the rim, then backboard, then rim again before dropping in. The woman in the stands next to me that I nearly threw down the stairs after she told me we lost because of the zone when the game was over.

We played our worst game, and Butler needed a lot of luck to beat us, and for that Brad Stevens, .

 

[Alsacs]

As bad as we played and the thug ball that Butler played we were up 4 with the ball going into the under 4 timeout. Then after the break Andy or Wes turned the inbounds over Butler got a basket in transition and the wheels came off. If we don't turn that possession after the timeout and just play JB stallball and get back defensively the game is totally different. However, Butler made the plays and won.

 

[jekelish]

Now let's find a way to take credit for Butler getting back to the championship game the next year, too.

 

[OttoMets]

And people forget, weird things happened that game. The tackle non call. Their point guard that shot in the teens on 3s swishing one from really deep with the shot clock expiring. The other guy making the three that hit the rim, then backboard, then rim again before dropping in. The woman in the stands next to me that I nearly threw down the stairs after she told me we lost because of the zone when the game was over.

We played our worst game, and Butler needed a lot of luck to beat us, and for that Brad Stevens, .

That game was every bad thing that happened to SU in during my life (Lou Roe -type guy hitting the three; 1996 Kentucky-esque change in rules regarding physical play; going into the stall after finally getting into a rhythm, as with Vermont in 2005; terrible call late, as with Missouri in '94; unwillingness to feed our best player down the stretch, somewhat similar to how we ignored Etan for nearly the entire Michigan State game; and Rick Jackson's bad timing for his worst career game, much like Tony Scott in 1990) all rolled into one.

It's not the most disappointed I've ever been after a game, but it's in the top five. Bad play, bad officiating, bad coaching, and bad seeding. Oh, and the injury that I've claimed wasn't as important as it's made out to be. Everything went wrong.

For Stevens, everything went right. ("Hey, great offensive team, could you maybe spot us a 10-0 lead? And then could you slow it down for the rest of the game, since you've got precious little experience with halfcourt offensive sets using this lineup? And, officials, could you please pretend we're Pittsburgh and ignore every hand-check, undercut, push, and shove for these 40 minutes?") And that still wouldn't have been enough to beat us - needed a lucky hop on the corner three and some epic layup-missing by Ricky on our end.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I will say that the only thing that keeps this from being the worst loss in my time as a fan (o hi 2000 Michigan State) is that loss of AO.