Brad Stevens needs to give AO a percentage of his salary

[BlackKnight76]

Now let's find a way to take credit for Butler getting back to the championship game the next year, too.

Clearly beating "greatest team in the ESPN era" 2010 Syracuse propelled 2011 Butler to new, or at least similar, heights in their return to the tournament. Also, Brad Stevens totally stole Boeheim's playbook. He's a sneaky one.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Buck Futler. We have a championship and they don't and probably never will. They didn't deserve to win that game either.

 

[jordoo]

I hate futler

 

[OttoMets]

I sat through the Butler game last night in hopes of refreshing my memory. Every bit as bad as the memory. A couple observations:

Ricky wasn't quite as bad as we say. He did some positive things, rebounded reasonably well. Made some good passes. He also was completely flustered on the defensive end - Matt Howard (my least favorite player in the history of the game - even worse than Ed Spriggs) gave him a beating. Lots of jersey-pulling and cheap-shotting. But he had some costly turnovers. And it's a shame he never got fit until his last season; it's jarring to see round Rick struggle to get up and down the court and stick layups.

Everybody was flustered by the physical play. Wes had the good streak to give us a lead, but he was a deer in the headlights for much of the game. Scoop looked like he did two years later against Aaron Craft. Triche was a non-entity. Same for Joseph.

Speaking of which, I'd forgotten that Boeheim went with the abandoned Rautins at the 3 lineup two or three times; he was trying to get through to Joseph and/or find something that worked on the offensive end. It didn't.

Neither did the Jackson-Johnson high-low. It seemed baffling that night and it baffles three years later: if you've got a finesse guy who's a great shooter and a bigger guy who can't shoot at all, shouldn't the shooter be at the high post? They connected three or four times. There were many more times when Ricky either threw the ball away or had to kick it back outside because his man sagged way down into the lane. And Wes got hammered without a call a couple more times after catching the pass. Weird strategy.

Our shot selection stunk. For too much of the game, we played a little bit panicked. Joseph careening across the lane for an impossible shot? Yep. Wild Triche 25-footer in transition? Yep. Contested step-back threes by Wes and Andy early in the shot clock? Yep. Rick getting forced into his move 14 feet out but throwing a shot up anyway? Yep. Scoop heaving a contested three with 7 seconds on the shot clock when we were in the stall? Yeah - and while I didn't like the stall idea with the clock just under 5:00 and us up 54-50 after a little run, it would have been more likely to succeed if our players didn't melt down.

It was also every bit as poorly officiated as we remember. More than a third of the points during their opening 31-18 run came off Howard's moving screens. (And while I know we're guilty of that infraction, too, these weren't "Baye Keita's still moving his feet while he screens someone" - more like "Butler player takes off at a dead sprint and lowers his shoulder into a Syracuse defender;" obvious stuff.) And the sequence to end the game was awful. Rautins takes a hard shove and turns the ball over. Rautins throws away the inbound to Wes, the Butler player steps on the baseline, the ref doesn't blow the whistle (by the way, why Rautins there? Scoop was already handling many of our inbound passes and was very good at it). The suplex. The shove in the back on their last field goal (Veasley's tip in).

EDIT: The other surprise: 2010 was revelatory because it had been ages since we'd seen five SU players trying hard on defense. Compared to the 2012 and 2013 teams, though, it's like we've made another huge leap forward. Joseph and Johnson had so much trouble on the wings, Wes in particular. Butler manufactured a lot of points at his expense. [It'll be interesting to see what Grant and/or Rakeem can do this season - we had a special pair of defensive forwards last year.]

Not the most fun 68 minutes of condensed NCAA basketball.

 

[Bayside44]

Has this point been made previously? If AO is healthy, Butler goes down, no doubt in my mind. Stevens stays a decent coach at a decent mid-level, but has nowhere near the rep he needs to get a sniff at the NBA. Doesn't get the recruits he needs to make it to the championship game against UConn, neither.

If AO was Stevens could've sent him to the line 45 times. If and buts...

The guy went to back to back title games with friggin Butler and just about got Duke.

 

[Eric15]

I will say that the only thing that keeps this from being the worst loss in my time as a fan (o hi 2000 Michigan State) is that loss of AO.

I'm surprised that 2000 Michigan State is that high on your list. I know it sucks we blew a 14 point lead, but they were unquestionably the superior team - similar to our 2003 2nd round game vs Oklahoma State.

1995 Arkansas is without question my most painful loss, followed by Butler and Vermont. I was only 5 in 1987 so I don't remember Indiana - probably a good thing, I may have killed myself.

 

[NKR1978]

That game was every bad thing that happened to SU in during my life (Lou Roe -type guy hitting the three; 1996 Kentucky-esque change in rules regarding physical play; going into the stall after finally getting into a rhythm, as with Vermont in 2005; terrible call late, as with Missouri in '94; unwillingness to feed our best player down the stretch, somewhat similar to how we ignored Etan for nearly the entire Michigan State game; and Rick Jackson's bad timing for his worst career game, much like Tony Scott in 1990) all rolled into one.

It's not the most disappointed I've ever been after a game, but it's in the top five. Bad play, bad officiating, bad coaching, and bad seeding. Oh, and the injury that I've claimed wasn't as important as it's made out to be. Everything went wrong.

For Stevens, everything went right. ("Hey, great offensive team, could you maybe spot us a 10-0 lead? And then could you slow it down for the rest of the game, since you've got precious little experience with halfcourt offensive sets using this lineup? And, officials, could you please pretend we're Pittsburgh and ignore every hand-check, undercut, push, and shove for these 40 minutes?") And that still wouldn't have been enough to beat us - needed a lucky hop on the corner three and some epic layup-missing by Ricky on our end.

I'm amazed that anyone can remember the details of that game. I've blocked out all of it except the suplex.

Curious to see whether Stevens changes his style of play with the celtics. Also curious to see how he handles the Boston media when the losses pile up. He's a darling in college basketball and doesn't face any real criticism. Don't know how a guy from the Midwest is going to handle the absolute s***show coming his way from the Boston media.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The Butler game is definitely a top 2 or 3 loss for me. At the time I was pretty sure it was a sign that we were never getting past the Sweet 16 ever again. It is easy to poo poo that now with 2 back to back wins in that round, but jeeezus, the things that happen to cuse in that round are absurd (look what it took to beat Wisconsin!) and a lot of the problems are self inflicted: it is a fact that JB puts in his worst performances in that round and on top of it, the players have a tendency of not showing up either. I think they went 8 minutes against Butler before scoring their first basket. Jokes.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I'm amazed that anyone can remember the details of that game. I've blocked out all of it except the suplex.

Curious to see whether Stevens changes his style of play with the celtics. Also curious to see how he handles the Boston media when the losses pile up. He's a darling in college basketball and doesn't face any real criticism. Don't know how a guy from the Midwest is going to handle the absolute s***show coming his way from the Boston media.

Not an NBA follower but I have heard a lot about how the Celtics blew up their team. That means their new coach will be just a patsy for management, right? He absorbs all the losses that are essentially preordained and then they fire him when the talent level rises for a "fresh start."

 

[NKR1978]

Not an NBA follower but I have heard a lot about how the Celtics blew up their team. That means their new coach will be just a patsy for management, right? He absorbs all the losses that are essentially preordained and then they fire him when the talent level rises for a "fresh start."

Thats what i expect. And then a college team will welcome him with open arms and an open wallet. No lose situation for him.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm surprised that 2000 Michigan State is that high on your list. I know it sucks we blew a 14 point lead, but they were unquestionably the superior team - similar to our 2003 2nd round game vs Oklahoma State.

1995 Arkansas is without question my most painful loss, followed by Butler and Vermont. I was only 5 in 1987 so I don't remember Indiana - probably a good thing, I may have killed myself.

Well it's a combination of blowing a big second half lead...and the fact that 2 seed Iowa State, 8 seed Wisconsin, and five,seed Florida would be our remaining path.

 

[Flacusian]

...and if Hakim Warrick was a step slow we might have zero NCs.

Oh yeah? But who is to say that shot even had a prayer at finding the bottom of the net?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Oh yeah? But who is to say that shot even had a prayer at finding the bottom of the net?

Lee was their best shooter. You better believe it had a legit chance of going in.

 

[Thrill44]

Don't forget that the only reason Butler got to the second NCAA title game is because Nasir Robinson of Pitt fouled a guy 90 feet away from the basket when he didn't have to with 2.5 seconds left. He would have been a little less of a boy genius.

 

[Knicks411]

Not an NBA follower but I have heard a lot about how the Celtics blew up their team. That means their new coach will be just a patsy for management, right? He absorbs all the losses that are essentially preordained and then they fire him when the talent level rises for a "fresh start."

Seems likely, though it's also possible Stevens impresses them enough that they want to keep him around. But either way, it's really no lose for Stevens. If he gets fired he's still going to be able to take any job he wants in college, just about.

 

[PoppyHart]

Seems likely, though it's also possible Stevens impresses them enough that they want to keep him around. But either way, it's really no lose for Stevens. If he gets fired he's still going to be able to take any job he wants in college, just about.

I think the 6 year contract proves he's coveted. If they wanted a "patsy", they would have given him 2-3 years, like Dunlap got from Charlotte.

 

[Knicks411]

I think the 6 year contract proves he's coveted. If they wanted a "patsy", they would have given him 2-3 years, like Dunlap got from Charlotte.

Could be, but I don't think they're going to have any problem eating it if he's fired in a 2 or 3 years

 

[HOFCeluck]

I heard somewhere Ainge had his eye on Stevens for some time...definitely did not make it seem like he was 2-3 yr dump during a rebuild.

 

[jekelish]

I'm surprised that 2000 Michigan State is that high on your list. I know it sucks we blew a 14 point lead, but they were unquestionably the superior team - similar to our 2003 2nd round game vs Oklahoma State.

1995 Arkansas is without question my most painful loss, followed by Butler and Vermont. I was only 5 in 1987 so I don't remember Indiana - probably a good thing, I may have killed myself.

Not that it makes much difference, but weren't we actually up 17 on Michigan State? I don't know that I've ever gone from elated to suicidal in such a quick span.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not that it makes much difference, but weren't we actually up 17 on Michigan State? I don't know that I've ever gone from elated to suicidal in such a quick span.

No..but they did go on a 17-0 run to end the game.

It's small consolation that we are 4-0 vs Michigan State since that night.

 

[realorange]

I'm surprised that 2000 Michigan State is that high on your list. I know it sucks we blew a 14 point lead, but they were unquestionably the superior team - similar to our 2003 2nd round game vs Oklahoma State.

1995 Arkansas is without question my most painful loss, followed by Butler and Vermont. I was only 5 in 1987 so I don't remember Indiana - probably a good thing, I may have killed myself.

'87 was like the breath being taken out of my lungs. Arkansas was a like almost reaching the top of a mountain only to fall off when you were ready to celebrate. Vermont felt like getting beat at HORSE by the class nerd.

 

[NineOneSeven]

2010 was so 3 years ago

 

[HOFCeluck]

Ever notice that the biggest NCAA gut punches come in five year intervals?

Cant wait for 2015!

 

[kirbivore]

I'm a broken record on this particular topic, but I'm going to try and dispel the myth every time it's presented on here.

We'd just thrashed Gonzaga four or five days before; we'd had them down 70-something to 30-something[EDIT - not quite; we led 70-41 and later by 32] before Boeheim took mercy on Few and slowed it down and emptied the bench. We were a very good team without Onuaku and we just never got off the bus for the Butler game. Worst performance of the year, yet we still retook the lead late before frittering it away.

Still blame JB for going to the stall. Normally I'm fine with it, but Butler was cooked. The move was to attack.

 

[OttoMets]

Still blame JB for going to the stall. Normally I'm fine with it, but Butler was cooked. The move was to attack.

I can see how it made sense (though I still think he goes to it too early - SWC or someone has a formula of how early is too early; up two possessions with 4:40 left is definitely too early, as we saw), but it's also worth considering that our offense was very shaky that night.

We had picked up the pace and gotten a half-court three and a quick run-out; Butler looked to be crumbling. Would have been nice to see if we'd been effective at that pace for another two or three possessions. We sure were lousy at the stall pace that had plagued us earlier in the game.