Can people please stop with the season is over crap. We are devoid of NFL talent but in Dino I trust

[TheCusian]

This staff hasn't proved that they deserve better. I have no problem with someone having faith in this staff. But until they actually prove they can win at this level, it is just blind faith.

Eh. Not totally blind.

Briles proved that the O system worked. And Babers and this staff took out a P5 team two years in a row at BG.

Some faith is warranted.

 

[SoBristol]

So, for a little perspective, consider Dino's first season at BGSU. His defense gave up 59 points to W Ky in the first game, and 60-something against Wisconsin, also in September (a 50 point loss). Turned it around when BGSU got back to its own conference & won his division. Lost big in the MAC championship game (giving up 51 points to N. Illinois), then won in a their bowl game.

You can chalk some of that to being overmatched in those September games; but also see that his teams can rebound after bad losses.

 

[Alsacs]

This staff hasn't proved that they deserve better. I have no problem with someone having faith in this staff. But until they actually prove they can win at this level, it is just blind faith.

You didn't get my point if this what you took from it. If this coach's resume isn't good enough for you to believe they deserve better then say that. We actually hired a HC with HC experience and pretty good track record.

The 20-25% of this fanbase that wants to the negative crap are taking one game to turn on the coach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think the Tampa 2 complaints are overblown. It's a defense designed to bend, not break. Clearly we don't have the talent now, but if we do get the right guys it should force a lot of turnovers and turn the ball over to "future" our high powered offense.

 

[dasher]

You didn't get my point if this what you took from it. If this coach's resume isn't good enough for you to believe they deserve better then say that. We actually hired a HC with HC experience and pretty good track record.

The 20-25% of this fanbase that wants to the negative crap are taking one game to turn on the coach.

Well, I sure don't think the fans should turn on the coach for losing a game that any coach that ever lived would have lost. That said, while I am hopeful that Babers can turn the trick, He has never been a coach at this level with these teams to play week in and week out. So I don't have blind faith.

 

[dasher]

I think the Tampa 2 complaints are overblown. It's a defense designed to bend, not break. Clearly we don't have the talent now, but if we do get the right guys it should force a lot of turnovers and turn the ball over to our high powered offense.

That is just it, I don't believe the Tampa 2 will get turnovers. Pressure does that.

 

[dollarbill44]

That is just it, I don't believe the Tampa 2 will get turnovers. Pressure does that.

We got turnovers against Louisville. They definitely weren't the issue.

 

[TheCusian]

That is just it, I don't believe the Tampa 2 will get turnovers. Pressure does that.

There's pressure, just not the kind that Shafer brought. It hasn't been borne out yet, but when our offense really starts to get efficient (not if, when) teams will be pressing to score through the air.

BG was #8 last year in INT - and I'd bet a whole lot of that was lots of guys in coverage vs teams down big trying to erase big deficits.

 

[Alsacs]

We got 3 turnovers against UL and actually the INT right before halftime was because the QB forced but also because of the Tampa 2 and how deep the safeties are suppose to be. The INT was made because the DB was perfectly positioned and he undercut Jackson's throw.

Tampa 2 is suppose to do the opposite of what happened on Friday. It is suppose to take away deep passes and quick drives. Our D on Friday was awful because we gave 4TDs on 1 play and 5th on 3 plays.

The D needs better DBs to work. The Tampa 2 needs good DBs to keep the deep ball out of the picture. Specifically we need safeties.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We got 3 turnovers against UL and actually the INT right before halftime was because the QB forced but also because of the Tampa 2 and how deep the safeties are suppose to be. The INT was made because the DB was perfectly positioned and he undercut Jackson's throw.

Tampa 2 is suppose to do the opposite of what happened on Friday. It is suppose to take away deep passes and quick drives. Our D on Friday was awful because we gave 4TDs on 1 play and 5th on 3 plays.

The D needs better DBs to work. The Tampa 2 needs good DBs to keep the deep ball out of the picture. Specifically we need safeties.

We didn't play cover 2 or cover 3 the whole game. I really think (and hope) that we went away from what we normally would do to take away UL's running game. It was a mistake that hopefully will be corrected this week.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We didn't play cover 2 or cover 3 the whole game. I really think (and hope) that we went away from what we normally would do to take away UL's running game. It was a mistake that hopefully will be corrected this week.

Yeah even them scoring in 3-4 minutes as opposed to 30 seconds would have helped

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is hysteria going the other way. None of us knows if there are any future draft picks in the last two classes, just like nobody could have projected Nassib or Pugh as draft picks in 2009.

This team isn't completely devoid of talent, they could have been 6-6 last year, but it is trying to play a style the exposes the positional weaknesses it has.

I just look at what we have at defensive end, and I'm pretty sure that positional weakness gets exposed regardless of what defense we run this season.

I mean, that is just a staggeringly inexperienced unit. I think some of those guys will be pretty good, but right now, it's a lot of youth and inexperience.

 

[PhatOrange]

It may sound paradoxical, but simply making a bowl in today's climate is nothing special, albeit a sign of major improvement.

maybe to a fan (a minor bowl) but it's huge to a team. 15 extra practices and recruits visiting. It's not 'nothing special' to the players either.

 

[CousCuse]

maybe to a fan (a minor bowl) but it's huge to a team. 15 extra practices and recruits visiting. It's not 'nothing special' to the players either.

Agree . Unless you get into the final 4 playoff , all the other bowls are more or less equal . I know some are historic and prestigious , but really any bowl is fine and a nice prize for the team . And the fans.

 

[cuse309]

We shouldn't look at what Dino did at Eastern Illionois, or BG, for a clue of how quickly it can turn around. Those 2 teams were more on par talent wise with their competition, than we are with ours. This is a bigger overhaul that will take longer. What we should look at is Baylor when Briles took over. Baylor had about as big of a talent gap with their competition, as we do with ours. Although Baylor recruits Texas, if you are to look at what Briles inherited for talent, (according to recruit ranking services) it was worse than what we have. Briles began the turn around however, with talent similar to what we bring in. Recruiting classes that rank from the mid 40's to in the 70's. His first 2 years, he was 4-8, and then went 7-5 in year 3, followed by 10-3, 8-5, 11-2, 11-2, 10-3. He didn't start landing top 25 recruiting classes until just a couple years ago.
We can win with the kind of talent we typically get, but it needs to be Dino's guys, and there is definitely going to be a need for patience.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We shouldn't look at what Dino did at Eastern Illionois, or BG, for a clue of how quickly it can turn around. Those 2 teams were more on par talent wise with their competition, than we are with ours. This is a bigger overhaul that will take longer. What we should look at is Baylor when Briles took over. Baylor had about as big of a talent gap with their competition, as we do with ours. Although Baylor recruits Texas, if you are to look at what Briles inherited for talent, (according to recruit ranking services) it was worse than what we have. Briles began the turn around however, with talent similar to what we bring in. Recruiting classes that rank from the mid 40's to in the 70's. His first 2 years, he was 4-8, and then went 7-5 in year 3, followed by 10-3, 8-5, 11-2, 11-2, 10-3. He didn't start landing top 25 recruiting classes until just a couple years ago.
We can win with the kind of talent we typically get, but it needs to be Dino's guys, and there is definitely going to be a need for patience.

Agreed 3-5 year process.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We shouldn't look at what Dino did at Eastern Illionois, or BG, for a clue of how quickly it can turn around. Those 2 teams were more on par talent wise with their competition, than we are with ours. This is a bigger overhaul that will take longer. What we should look at is Baylor when Briles took over. Baylor had about as big of a talent gap with their competition, as we do with ours. Although Baylor recruits Texas, if you are to look at what Briles inherited for talent, (according to recruit ranking services) it was worse than what we have. Briles began the turn around however, with talent similar to what we bring in. Recruiting classes that rank from the mid 40's to in the 70's. His first 2 years, he was 4-8, and then went 7-5 in year 3, followed by 10-3, 8-5, 11-2, 11-2, 10-3. He didn't start landing top 25 recruiting classes until just a couple years ago.
We can win with the kind of talent we typically get, but it needs to be Dino's guys, and there is definitely going to be a need for patience.

That isn't a fair comparison. Baylor was arguably the worst P5 team when Briles took over. We aren't even the worst ACC team when Babers took over. The year prior to Briles taking over Baylor was 117th in the Sagarin, while SU was 80th last year. There isn't a talent gap with UConn, Wake, BC, NC State.

 

[CousCuse]

We shouldn't look at what Dino did at Eastern Illionois, or BG, for a clue of how quickly it can turn around. Those 2 teams were more on par talent wise with their competition, than we are with ours. This is a bigger overhaul that will take longer. What we should look at is Baylor when Briles took over. Baylor had about as big of a talent gap with their competition, as we do with ours. Although Baylor recruits Texas, if you are to look at what Briles inherited for talent, (according to recruit ranking services) it was worse than what we have. Briles began the turn around however, with talent similar to what we bring in. Recruiting classes that rank from the mid 40's to in the 70's. His first 2 years, he was 4-8, and then went 7-5 in year 3, followed by 10-3, 8-5, 11-2, 11-2, 10-3. He didn't start landing top 25 recruiting classes until just a couple years ago.
We can win with the kind of talent we typically get, but it needs to be Dino's guys, and there is definitely going to be a need for patience.

Briles new every high school coach and recruiting " facilitator " in the state of Texas personally having been a high school coach there for a long time , so that analogy is not quite 100% either . Dino needs time and support if he is going to get it done at SU .

 

[Lou_C]

That isn't a fair comparison. Baylor was arguably the worst P5 team when Briles took over. We aren't even the worst ACC team when Babers took over. The year prior to Briles taking over Baylor was 117th in the Sagarin, while SU was 80th last year. There isn't a talent gap with UConn, Wake, BC, NC State.

And Briles wasn't playing the type of out of conference schedule Syracuse does, he was scheduling the worst of the worst out of conference.

You name four teams on your schedule that you don't have a talent gap with. So, you chalk up those as 4-0? Does Syracuse have definitively much BETTER talent than those programs, that you should count them all as wins?

No coach beats every team they have similar talent then. You have to win most of your games in which you hold a decided talent advantage, and and the best coaches win the highest percent of those. Then you hope you can win a little more than your share of the games against roughly similar talent. Guys like Saban, Meyer, Fisher, etc may face 1-2 teams a year with similar talent.

The very best coaches in the game win the vast majority of the time by having better talent. Most of the time that's straight recruiting...in some instances you can credit better than average development at places like Michigan State and Kansas State.

I just think some of you guys think that a coach can do more than he can do. You've got one game on your schedule, Colgate, where you can cruise to a win. You are going into 11 of your 12 games with about the same or significantly less talent. Babers could be an excellent coach and not be able to pull four wins out of those games.

People just don't want to see it, but having the likes of USF and UConn on your schedule when you've already got ND is just foolhardy, but at this point I'm not going to change anyone's mind, even though EVERY SINGLE TEAM that has gone from a losing culture to a winning culture has done it on the back of tissue soft OOC scheduling.

But that aside, expectations that ANY coach is going to win more than a few games out of a slate of even and disadvantaged matchups is crazy. Nick Saban couldn't be counted on to do that.

Until you've got better players than at least half your schedule, 3-6 wins is going to be a reasonable outcome for any coach.

 

[cuse309]

That isn't a fair comparison. Baylor was arguably the worst P5 team when Briles took over. We aren't even the worst ACC team when Babers took over. The year prior to Briles taking over Baylor was 117th in the Sagarin, while SU was 80th last year. There isn't a talent gap with UConn, Wake, BC, NC State.

Yes, and that is to my point. The Briles overhaul at Baylor, was more similar to Dino's overhaul here, than to Dino's overhaul at E.I.U, or BG. There is not much of a talent gap compared to the teams you mentioned, but there certainly is with FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Miami, UNC, and at this point Duke, and Pitt have compiled much more talent than we have if you are to go by recruit rankings. My point however, is that it doesn't matter. We can and most likely will still land classes that rank in the 40's-50's and that's fine. We can win 8-10 games with that talent and this scheme (assuming the defense shapes up to at least mediocre). That's is where Baylors' classes ranked until recently, and they made it work in the Big 12 facing off against teams with top 10 classes.
Despite the fact that Briles new all the high school coaches in Texas, he still didn't get the top recruits. He got talent similar to our talent level as you can see below. It wan't until his 2012 class that he had a class ranked higher than the top 40.

Baylor recruiting classes and records during Briles tenure:
2007 52nd
2008 56th 4-8
2009 44th 4-8
2010 51st 7-6
2011 52nd 10-3
2012 30th 8-5
2013 26th 11-2
2014 23rd 11-2
2015 44th 10-3
2016 47th

 

[Stern]

I agree 100%. First, I think Tampa 2 is a loser. Second, we will never have the talent to play it.

We will NEVER have the talent to play it...

Where do some of you people come up with this stuff. He might not have the talent for it in year 1 or 2, but to say he will NEVER have the talent for it is silly

 

[cuse309]

We will NEVER have the talent to play it...

Where do some of you people come up with this stuff. He might not have the talent for it in year 1 or 2, but to say he will NEVER have the talent for it is silly

Seriously. A lot of people throw the word never around regarding Syracuse. What's the point of rooting a hoping then?

 

[tipphill]

maybe i missed it but i have not seen a post that says the season is lost. i have seen the criticisms, mine included, but have not seen that the season is a total bust

 

[KellySyracuse]

I think a lot of fans want us to fail because they don't like the style of play Babers is bringing. "It's not real football".

Syracuse is a bandwagon town no matter how you look at it. Win they come, lose they don't. I have friends that wanted Boeheim fired just last year.

sheesh, nothing like painting the whole town as arseholes

since we all suck here up in the 'cuse looks like some of you away folks will have to make the trek to the dome to support attendance. we're all just gonna wait it out until the bandwagon pulls up to the next bus stop

 

[KaiserUEO]

Well, I sure don't think the fans should turn on the coach for losing a game that any coach that ever lived would have lost. That said, while I am hopeful that Babers can turn the trick, He has never been a coach at this level with these teams to play week in and week out. So I don't have blind faith.

Just because you don't think Dino is Clapton, playing with Grech, Bruce and Winwood, doesn't mean you can't give em a good listen(watch).

Dino has had some mild success at this, maybe he's Page...and just because his new guys have names like Jones, Plant and Bonham...doesn't mean they won't turn out more than ok.