Can we turn this thing around?

[Cusefan0307]

We are going to need massive improvement across the board. For this to happen we need the following IMO:

I'm looking at Tyler Lydon. Be aggressive. Shoot the ball with confidence. Who cares if you got 5-15 some games, stop turning down open shots to give the ball to someone in a worse situation.

Improved point guard play. Frank Howard needs to be better against good opponents. He's like 5-25 against the 3 best teams we play. That's not going to get it done. He needs to penetrate more and stop settling for jumpers. Get guys like Roberson, Coleman, and Lydon the ball close to the basket so it gets those guys into the flow of the game.

Tyus Battle needs to be aggressive. He's a lot better shooter than I thought, but he hasn't been good at everything else he was advertised as. Go to the basket and be aggressive. Look to get out on the break and attack the rim. Where's the aggressive play everyone spoke of in the preseason?

Roberson needs to start attacking the glass like he did in the tournament. If he doesn't I don't think he's going to play much. We have other guys that can rebound if he's not, but I would like to see him be a contributor again.

I think these are the 4 guys that can step up the most. We are already getting max production from DC and nearly max production from White. I'm not sure what Gillon can do to improve much, as he's a liability on defense, but at least be solid when he spells Howard. Thompson and Chuwku aren't going to be the difference in us turning this around, it's really on the 4 guys listed above.

 

[Jeremy L.]

We have the potential on paper to do it. Can we do it? Absolutely. They just need to turn it around sooner rather than later.

 

[ssbriefcase]

The one thing I will say is, at least we got DC rolling. He was the furthest away from doing anything, of all the players everyone talked about all summer. So since he's the "hard part", the rest should be a lot easier to come around. The chemistry will come, shots will fall. The zone will be very good. Sometimes it takes a rough patch or some major adversity like 3 losses this early to send the shock waves. I just hope the guys that need to finish, will do that. C'mon Frank. Lydon won't play like this all season.

I'm concerned, but the sky isn't falling just yet.

 

[pearl31]

 

[Alsacs]

I have very little confidence in this team overall. When we make jump shots we will be beat good teams but we are easy to defend when the opponent gives effort. I don't think we will be beat teams that control transition and that is all about the team having the talent.
We do nothing on offense other than pass it to one guy and watch them make plays. Coleman has done a good job down low but we don't feed him enough.
Lydon has been off. White has been the offense and he is a ISO player.
We are going to win games and hopefully make the tournament but this team isn't winning a NC.

 

[orangenirvana]

I still believe in Gillon. Say what you want about his disadvantage on defense but it's the offense that is such a huge issue with this team. He's fast and explosive and can help beat teams down the floor before opposing defenses set up. He's a good, experienced player who's a little shell-shocked right now but he's much better than he's shown the last four games.

 

[AZOrange]

Yes. JB is usually correct on his evals. We know he thinks we can be really good and he thinks it will take time. Settling on a rotation is key. But understanding roles is probably as important

 

[Bayside44]

If Tyler Lydon can get himself going I think we will be fine. Still have talent and developing depth, like the skillset of TThompson for later in the season.

 

[Ghost]

Absolutely.

I think Lyndon, Howard, and Roberson will produce more as the season progresses.

Oddly, I think DC may slip, I'm not sure he fits in well with the personnel overall, and TL's minutes at center will increase.

Battle will be okay, White will be White Gillon will mostly disappear with a few big outings, but we steady the ship. Do we make the tourney though? No clue.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I don't know... Our point guard situation is a disaster. Howard is playing as bad as or worse than Kaleb Joseph did against non-cupcakes. Gillon looks like he's just too small to play against non-cupcakes on either offense or defense.

I think with a traditional JB team of half-court sets we are looking at a wrong side of the bubble team... if we try something unorthodox that may change but given that this a JB team and we don't try anything new the odds are slim.

 

[RF2044]

I still believe in Gillon. Say what you want about his disadvantage on defense but it's the offense that is such a huge issue with this team. He's fast and explosive and can help beat teams down the floor before opposing defenses set up. He's a good, experienced player who's a little shell-shocked right now but he's much better than he's shown the last four games.

Ditto. I think people writing him off are barking up the wrong tree.

Now, he needs to play better and stop picking up his dribble. Right now, he looks like he's lost confidence, and needs to re-find his mojo. If he doesn't, then we can't afford to give him minutes. He's a better player than he's shown.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Ditto. I think people writing him off are barking up the wrong tree.

Now, he needs to play better and stop picking up his dribble. Right now, he looks like he's lost confidence, and needs to re-find his mojo. If he doesn't, then we can't afford to give him minutes. He's a better player than he's shown.

He needs to not try and drive at the trees as well. that reverse he tried the other night was silly.

 

[orangecuse]

It depends to what degree of turnaround.

I, as I'm sure many here do, sure hope that we can get to the ACC schedule without anymore losses. And, then, somehow come league play, play hands down our best ball and go something like 12-6 or 13-5. It's certainly wishful thinking, but here's to optimism. However, historically over the past 25 years when losing 3 or more out of conference games in a season we have gone to the NIT, other than last year. As I mentioned in a similar thread yesterday, last year we had those deemed big ooc victories in the Battle 4 Atlantis which ultimately got us in the dance. This year, there's no such victory(ies) that were had ooc or that can be at this point. Since the committee places a lot of emphasis on those out of conference games/wins, unless we do end up with a stellar ACC record when it's all said and done, I don't think the turnaround will be enough to get us dancing.

 

[Ghost]

He needs to not try and drive at the trees as well. that reverse he tried the other night was silly.

Eh, I'm okay with them both driving misses or not. Howard and Gillon. DC is fairly competent on the glass, and Roberson as well. Howard needs to finish better, MUCH BETTER, and Gillon needs to have some plan. He seems too reckless, and needs to show better vision if a pass is available. It seems like his plan is just to jump, then figure out how to get the shot on rim.

 

[RF2044]

He needs to not try and drive at the trees as well. that reverse he tried the other night was silly.

Agree on the reverse. There's a time and a place for that shot, and its not when you get to the rim 1-on-three. Drive in and make sure you draw the foul in that situation.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Eh, I'm okay with them both driving misses or not. Howard and Gillon. DC is fairly competent on the glass, and Roberson as well. Howard needs to finish better, MUCH BETTER, and Gillon needs to have some plan. He seems too reckless, and needs to show better vision if a pass is available. It seems like his plan is just to jump, then figure out how to get the shot on rim.

In the right situation sure. But that one I'm thinking of with Gillon, he went one on at least 2 if not 3. He should have pulled it out. Or take the three. We call it the Bosnian layup here. I pulled one last night as a matter of fact. Nothing better than seeing two guys thinking they are both lining up their blocks of my layup attempt only to watch them realize I'm pulling up and popping a sweet shot from the 3-line.

 

[pearl31]

Ditto. I think people writing him off are barking up the wrong tree.

Now, he needs to play better and stop picking up his dribble. Right now, he looks like he's lost confidence, and needs to re-find his mojo. If he doesn't, then we can't afford to give him minutes. He's a better player than he's shown.

I know you've been and remain high on Gillon but from what I've seen so far (which is still a limited sample, certainly) he is just not a viable option for meaningful minutes. I can honestly say (again, based on what's been demonstrated so far) Buss would have been closer to a viable backup-PG option than Gillon - and that is not a good thing.
Here's to hoping that as the sample size grows he proves me/us wrong :noidea:

 

[RF2044]

I know you've been and remain high on Gillon but from what I've seen so far (which is still a limited sample, certainly) he is just not a viable option for meaningful minutes. I can honestly say (again, based on what's been demonstrated so far) Buss would have been closer to a viable backup-PG option than Gillon - and that is not a good thing.
Here's to hoping that as the sample size grows he proves me/us wrong :noidea:

See, I don't see that the same way at all. Gillon's handle is strong. He can score. He has a good feel for passing, and wracks up assists at a high volume when he gets extended PT.

His problem has been that he pulls his dribble up, he's left his feet, he drives without a plan and then gets into trouble. That's not how he's played before, which makes those things correctable. It was different with Buss / Kaleb [or even White at the 2], who didn't HAVE a handle. The mistakes Gillon is making are errors of commission, not omission because he CAN do the things he's supposed to.

Gillon's issues appear to be confidence based, and not having a great feel for what JB wants him to do. So instead, he's played hesitant, instead of just letting things flow. That needs to change.

But the capabilities are there.

 

[kuethstheman]

Been watching SU since the late 60s. I've seen this kind of offensive cluelessness by JB teams a number of times. Bad enough that you had to wonder if they even held practices.Those teams had loads of talent, like this one. Most of the time, all it took was guys figuring it out over time, either for themselves or with some coaching, hard to tell. The whole process was puzzling to figure: why they were so bad at first and how they could be so good at the end. I believe it will happen this time. My only questions are if they can do it in time to make the tournament and have a reasonable seed.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I've seen this kind of offensive cluelessness by JB teams a number of times. Bad enough that you had to wonder if they even held practices.

Pray tell which other teams looked this inept?

 

[kuethstheman]

Pray tell which other teams looked this inept?

Good question!

Actually, the answer is it was many teams. Anyone who's been around for awhile knows about the swoon we go into when we start conference play. Been going on for decades. Not every season but during many of them, the team looks completely stumped as to what to do on offense. It usually lasts for two or three games. We almost always lose those games. The exceptions were when we had a great one-on-one scorer who could take over and that's the difference this year. We don't have that but we don't need that to fix the offense.

The other difference this year is it happened earlier in the season than it used to, when we played a truly pathetic early-season schedule.

To give you a somewhat more specific answer, my most vivid memory is watching Red Autry standing still and pounding the ball for 44 seconds before throwing up a 30-footer. Maybe three trips in a row. Followed by a timeout and three straight trips getting turnovers by trying to pass to someone who wasn't open (no one was open). I don't remember the year but I remember that those teams ended up doing just fine.

 

[Coach Orange]

The short answer is yes, we can. It's a long season, and developing individuals and teams is a process. Hopefully, the team will be peaking around March, as compared to being a finished product now. This accomplishment will require far greater attention to detail than the team has demonstrated thus far, though.

Ultimately, each fan may have to define what a "successful" turnaround would be to determine whether or not this team reaches such a goal.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The short answer is yes, we can. It's a long season, and developing individuals and teams is a process. Hopefully, the team will be peaking around March, as compared to being a finished product now. This accomplishment will require far greater attention to detail than the team has demonstrated thus far, though.

Ultimately, each fan may have to define what a "successful" turnaround would be to determine whether or not this team reaches such a goal.

I think the follow-up question, and probably the one that should have been asked to start with, is can we turn this thing around in time to be considered a successful season? I'd love some reassurance on that.

 

[RF2044]

I think the follow-up question, and probably the one that should have been asked to start with, is can we turn this thing around in time to be considered a successful season? I'd love some reassurance on that.

That's the million dollar question, and not an easy one to answer--because we should be performing a lot better than we are.

The talent is there for this to be a top 10 team. So can they turn it around? Yes. But why do they NEED to turn it around, given the talent level / depth?

 

[cbcuse3]

Pearl wouldn't give up on this team. I'm not giving up. Go Orange. Enjoy the process.