Can you measure progress without wins and losses?

[Don]

I have thought about this and I guess what i would like to see to measure progress is the following

1) when games like Rutgers and Uconn from last year where for a couple quarters we dominate then all of a sudden we put on or mr Hyde persona become a very rare occurence Ill call that progress.

2) Games like when the kid from Colgate runs all over us even when we had a good defense and we can't seem to get out of out our own way become a rarity I will say that's progress.

3) When we play teams Like Rhode Island we take care of business early and do not let up and are able to get backups valuable playing time in the fourth quarter I will says thats progress.

4) I cant even name the amount of games the special team has made me want to throw up but if we can win a game because of a special teams play once or even twice a year rather than constantly give the other team field position game after game then i will call that progress.

5) When we can play with the big boys for a game like West Virginia last year and we follow that up with a convincing win over whoever we play the next week I will call that progress.

6) when we are in a game with the big boys that a big time drive will keep us in the game or maybe even swing momentum to us, we dont make a foolish turnover or we actually finish that drive off with a touchdown (see USC last year) I will call that progress.

I think we win 7 or 8 games this year, I think we give USC all they want, I think we actually win more games than we lose in the Big East, but if we don't and we show progress on items 1-6 I think the table will be set for future good things as we move to the ACC.

 

[OttoMets]

Good post.

 

[kcsu]

When the fan base starts to come back

When you rs more of your frosh than not

When you have scholorship players at three deep

When win the games you are supposed to win, win 60% of the games that are toss ups and win 20% of the games that you are supposed to lose.

 

[JD]

I was hoping the USC game would have been at 12:00 start after they had to fly across country. I suspect that they will be overlooking this game because of last years results and the fact they have Stanford the next week. I'm not saying we are not going to get swatted but there is a chance we could hang around and if fortune smile on us hey you never know.

 

[FAL]

If we win 7 or 8 games this year, it will be because we have made progress on items 1-6 and vice versa. Winning the BE this year is certainly possible as well (fingers and toes crossed!). Time will tell.

Good insight.

 

[Millhouse]

I have thought about this and I guess what i would like to see to measure progress is the following

1) when games like Rutgers and Uconn from last year where for a couple quarters we dominate then all of a sudden we put on or mr Hyde persona become a very rare occurence Ill call that progress.

2) Games like when the kid from Colgate runs all over us even when we had a good defense and we can't seem to get out of out our own way become a rarity I will say that's progress.

3) When we play teams Like Rhode Island we take care of business early and do not let up and are able to get backups valuable playing time in the fourth quarter I will says thats progress.

4) I cant even name the amount of games the special team has made me want to throw up but if we can win a game because of a special teams play once or even twice a year rather than constantly give the other team field position game after game then i will call that progress.

5) When we can play with the big boys for a game like West Virginia last year and we follow that up with a convincing win over whoever we play the next week I will call that progress.

6) when we are in a game with the big boys that a big time drive will keep us in the game or maybe even swing momentum to us, we dont make a foolish turnover or we actually finish that drive off with a touchdown (see USC last year) I will call that progress.

I think we win 7 or 8 games this year, I think we give USC all they want, I think we actually win more games than we lose in the Big East, but if we don't and we show progress on items 1-6 I think the table will be set for future good things as we move to the ACC.

i like looking at yards allowed and yards gained in conference play.

turnovers make or break lots of seasons but a lot of that is somewhat random. out of conference schedules can vary a great deal every year.

i'm not saying yards equates perfectly to wins and losses. football has so few games, a few random plays can make or break. part of what makes it fun. but if they were somehow able to play hundreds of games, yards would tell most of the story.

similar to the pythagorean wins stuff from baseball - runs scored and runs allowed will converge to the actual wins and losses pretty close if you play enough games to smooth out the weird volatility between individual games.

 

[SU2NASA]

Wins and losses are the measure of the program.

There's no such thing as moral victories anymore.

 

[xc84]

short term, yes. long term (4+ years), no. and obviously, W-L is not absolutely isolated to a single year. It's gotta be in context to prior years.

 

[CusefanATL]

No.

You know we are a loser if your 1st point to measure progress is by beating rutgers at home in everyway but the scoreboard.

No offense to you at all, but I stopped reading after that. Marrone is doing a solid job, he is 10x better than Grob at coaching. But he needs to win more and more games.

8-5 and 5-7 is better than where we were. but its a long distance from where we are going.

edit... i just re-read your post. i think i comprehended it wrong the 1st time. ill leave this post up to eat crow. good post - but those rare occasions need to turn into wins.

 

[OrangePA]

I have thought about this and I guess what i would like to see to measure progress is the following

1) when games like Rutgers and Uconn from last year where for a couple quarters we dominate then all of a sudden we put on or mr Hyde persona become a very rare occurence Ill call that progress.

2) Games like when the kid from Colgate runs all over us even when we had a good defense and we can't seem to get out of out our own way become a rarity I will say that's progress.

3) When we play teams Like Rhode Island we take care of business early and do not let up and are able to get backups valuable playing time in the fourth quarter I will says thats progress.

4) I cant even name the amount of games the special team has made me want to throw up but if we can win a game because of a special teams play once or even twice a year rather than constantly give the other team field position game after game then i will call that progress.

5) When we can play with the big boys for a game like West Virginia last year and we follow that up with a convincing win over whoever we play the next week I will call that progress.

6) when we are in a game with the big boys that a big time drive will keep us in the game or maybe even swing momentum to us, we dont make a foolish turnover or we actually finish that drive off with a touchdown (see USC last year) I will call that progress.

I think we win 7 or 8 games this year, I think we give USC all they want, I think we actually win more games than we lose in the Big East, but if we don't and we show progress on items 1-6 I think the table will be set for future good things as we move to the ACC.

I believe that progress can be made even if the record does not seem to indicate progress.

Recall that as the 1987 season began the "Sack Mac Pac" was alive and well.

Few of us - me especially - realized just how much progress Coach Mac had been making over the years.

In retrospect the win against Nebraska three years earlier was an indication that the program was getting better and better.

Though we stepped backward in 1986, it is now clear that despite the losing record that year the program was ready for great success.

It may be that the WVU win last year was a tell tale sign of things to come even if the 2012 record is a losing one.

 

[OrangePA]

i like looking at yards allowed and yards gained in conference play.

turnovers make or break lots of seasons but a lot of that is somewhat random. out of conference schedules can vary a great deal every year.

i'm not saying yards equates perfectly to wins and losses. football has so few games, a few random plays can make or break. part of what makes it fun. but if they were somehow able to play hundreds of games, yards would tell most of the story.

similar to the pythagorean wins stuff from baseball - runs scored and runs allowed will converge to the actual wins and losses pretty close if you play enough games to smooth out the weird volatility between individual games.

I'm looking at personnel.

We are accumulating athletes.

The more we accumulate the better we will be.

If we keep adding guys like Reddish, Spruill, Morgan, Morris, and of course Broyld, the Orange will be back where it belongs regardless of the 2012 or even 2013 record.