Class of 2014 - CB Lamar Dawson (IL) to Utah State | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2014 CB Lamar Dawson (IL) to Utah State

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You should be aware that if you get caught tweeting recruits, you will be banned from the board. Apparently SU has issued a statement in the past suggesting its against their wishes.

As a result this board has the policy that if you violate SUs wishes, you will no longer be allowed to participate on this board.

So if you wish to join up in the twitter army DO NOT post about it here, or you will be banned.
Question: If one is not an alumni, student, season ticket holder, current or former player or employee, they are not considered to be a booster and are outside NCAA scrutiny, correct?

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Question: If one is not an alumni, student, season ticket holder, current or former player or employee, they are not considered to be a booster and are outside NCAA scrutiny, correct?

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I'm not really the person to ask. But I believe this entire board is a collective booster given that we donated something like $50,000 for the IPF as a total group.

Also I believe somebody previously had posted that if you tweet a recruit attempting to entice them to attend SU it makes (under some NCAA definition) a "booster"
 
Also I believe somebody previously had posted that if you tweet a recruit attempting to entice them to attend SU it makes (under some NCAA definition) a "booster"
Basically, if you do anything to encourage a kid to go to a school, that's recruiting, and if you do anything to recruit a kid, you're a booster for that school. Also, boosters aren't allowed to recruit. Everyone clear now?

My question is - why does the NCAA despise highschool guidance counselors, because, man, are they ever in it deep.

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Well to be honest I dont really blame the board rule on the NCAA. Frankly I disagree with the rule and think its silly ban someone from one portion of the Internet for something they do in another part of the Internet.

But I completely understand the point of view of the Admins. They love their orange so much, they can't even bear the thought of SU being penalized as a result of their actions (or in this case the actions of the board that they run). It's why I don't partake in the twitter army, but I do understand why somebody would want to.
I don't understand why anyone over the age of 22 (senior in college) would want to tweet at a 17 year old kid to try and convince him where to go to college.
 
I don't understand why anyone over the age of 22 (senior in college) would want to tweet at a 17 year old kid to try and convince him where to go to college.
I outlined one side of the coin before, now for the other side. Love for their team. If they have even the smallest opportunity to help the program by convincing a stellar player to join the orange, they see that it's worth it to do something under almost any other circumstance would be considered creepy.

It's clear the twitter armies out there make an impact on kids decisions, specifically those that love the attention they get as big man on campus in high school, those that want that experience to not just continue but expand exponentially on the next level. They see the throngs of twitter fans constantly blowing up their feeds as being a way to gauge just how much love they will get walking around on campus. I'd be willing to bet it's an incredibly terrible indicator, but that's what they see it as.

At the end of the day, whatever brings in solid layers works for me, doesn't mean I'll join in the CTA, but I'll be happy if their efforts help bring guys around to our side, and based on Dawson's comments, in his case, it's pretty undeniable that it certainly helped influence his decision.
 
You should be aware that if you get caught tweeting recruits, you will be banned from the board. Apparently SU has issued a statement in the past suggesting its against their wishes.

As a result this board has the policy that if you violate SUs wishes, you will no longer be allowed to participate on this board.

So if you wish to join up in the twitter army DO NOT post about it here, or you will be banned.


Let me say that I 100% do not tweet recruits, but it is not even in doubt that we are getting some of our best recruits in 20 years due to the twitter army. I find it hilarious that so many people said it would drive recruits away... it does the exact opposite. We will be much, much better in the long run due to the passion of these followers.
 
Let me say that I 100% do not tweet recruits, but it is not even in doubt that we are getting some of our best recruits in 20 years due to the twitter army. I find it hilarious that so many people said it would drive recruits away... it does the exact opposite. We will be much, much better in the long run due to the passion of these followers.
No, we're getting some of our best recruits in 20 years due to our staff, the ACC, the new facilities, the tight bond of the incoming recruiting class, and our academics. Then maybe add twitter on there.
 
the level to which you underestimate the twitter side is frightening. to each his own i guess.
I'm curious how you would rank the cuse twitter army among the factors bnoro listed. I've been a vocal defender of twitter and the inanity of the NCAA's policies in this regard, and I believe the cuse twitter army has had, all told, a beneficial effect. But despite that, I'm in 100% agreement with bnoro's statement and find your outright dismissal of it as "frightening" to be a significant overstatement. Reasonable people may disagree on the exact order/weight of those factors, but there is nothing "frightening" about thinking the bulk of the recent recruiting success is only tangentially related to fan's use of twitter.
 
Twitter helps no doubt, everyone's ego likes to be stroked. However you need to be able to back up those words and that is where The coaches, facilities, etc come in
 
the level to which you underestimate the twitter side is frightening. to each his own i guess.
As a 23 year old I understand the impact of social media in today's world however if you think kids are using twitter as even the #5 reason to pick a school I don't know what to tell you. Could it be the tipping point if all things are equal between schools? Maybe. But it's not as influential as you make it out to be.

Now if AJ Long was tweeting at me to come play with him and we became friends over it you have a point. But because JoeSchmoOrange tweets at me to come to Syracuse would not have any impact on a decision.
 
I'm curious how you would rank the cuse twitter army among the factors bnoro listed. I've been a vocal defender of twitter and the inanity of the NCAA's policies in this regard, and I believe the cuse twitter army has had, all told, a beneficial effect. But despite that, I'm in 100% agreement with bnoro's statement and find your outright dismissal of it as "frightening" to be a significant overstatement. Reasonable people may disagree on the exact order/weight of those factors, but there is nothing "frightening" about thinking the bulk of the recent recruiting success is only tangentially related to fan's use of twitter.


Not a single coach on our staff has proven that they can succeed at their current Job Title. Despite that, we have what is shaping up to be our best recruiting class in over a decade. Social media is HUGE. Facilities certainly play a role. The move to the ACC does as well, since kids from Florida can play close to home (although we have a bunch of guys who are not from the South in the class already).

I never said twitter was kids make a choice. But at a school like SU, who will ALWAYS be recruiting against warmer climate schools and well established schools, we are rarely going to be a top recruits' runaway choice. So anyone that we do get will have chosen us due to a small factor here or there that other schools did not have. That is twitter army.
 
[quote="TBCuse11, post: 701698, member: 3075"]Not a single coach on our staff has proven that they can succeed at their current Job Title. Despite that, we have what is shaping up to be our best recruiting class in over a decade. Social media is HUGE. Facilities certainly play a role. The move to the ACC does as well, since kids from Florida can play close to home (although we have a bunch of guys who are not from the South in the class already).

Huh? Tell that to Daoust and Moore, two of the better position coaches we've had in a very long time. Smith has had success as RB coach at other institutions and Lea is recognized as one of the young and upcoming hot commodities in the profession. Additionally, imo, Lester will be a D-1 head coach some day.

I understand the point you're attempting to make but speaking in absolutes diminishes your argument. Facilities,conference affiliation, academics and WINNING will bring in the recruits.

Social media might not make the top ten of most kid's initial list. Once a player narrows down his choices...I think social media can have some impact. But, I'm reasonable sure that a HS prospect's first variable isn't "hey, I like this school because they have a huge twitter army".
 
I never said twitter was kids make a choice. But at a school like SU, who will ALWAYS be recruiting against warmer climate schools and well established schools, we are rarely going to be a top recruits' runaway choice. So anyone that we do get will have chosen us due to a small factor here or there that other schools did not have. That is twitter army.
The warmer climate schools all have this. You just made your point invalid. If you think we're winning a battle against UK for a football recruit based on social media you're dead wrong. We'd win that battle based on what we have to offer. We have a twitter army of 50. Theirs is in the thousands.
 
The warmer climate schools all have this. You just made your point invalid. If you think we're winning a battle against UK for a football recruit based on social media you're dead wrong. We'd win that battle based on what we have to offer. We have a twitter army of 50. Theirs is in the thousands.


Nah man, you just dont get it. Chalk it up to young age. I dont hold it against you. Kentucky, as you use as an example, are very uneducated sports fans. Their twitter army if y want to call it that is full of "rah rah rah guys". You would be surprised how smart college kids can be. They appreciate intelligence.
 
[quote="TBCuse11, post: 701698, member: 3075"]Not a single coach on our staff has proven that they can succeed at their current Job Title. Despite that, we have what is shaping up to be our best recruiting class in over a decade. Social media is HUGE. Facilities certainly play a role. The move to the ACC does as well, since kids from Florida can play close to home (although we have a bunch of guys who are not from the South in the class already).

Huh? Tell that to Daoust and Moore, two of the better position coaches we've had in a very long time. Smith has had success as RB coach at other institutions and Lea is recognized as one of the young and upcoming hot commodities in the profession. Additionally, imo, Lester will be a D-1 head coach some day.

I understand the point you're attempting to make but speaking in absolutes diminishes your argument. Facilities,conference affiliation, academics and WINNING will bring in the recruits.

Social media might not make the top ten of most kid's initial list. Once a player narrows down his choices...I think social media can have some impact. But, I'm reasonable sure that a HS prospect's first variable isn't "hey, I like this school because they have a huge twitter army".


In your opinion, our current coaches will do well (i happen to agree). but none of them are proven, with the possible exception of Moore. i will give you him. Everyone else is either upgrading in Title, or upgrading in talent level of their school. That scares kids. Trust me.

This is in general, by the way, a pointless argument since it is 100% opinion.
 
Nah man, you just dont get it. Chalk it up to young age. I dont hold it against you. Kentucky, as you use as an example, are very uneducated sports fans. Their twitter army if y want to call it that is full of "rah rah rah guys". You would be surprised how smart college kids can be. They appreciate intelligence.
Total straw man because I no longer know what your argument is.
 
In your opinion, our current coaches will do well (i happen to agree). but none of them are proven, with the possible exception of Moore. i will give you him. Everyone else is either upgrading in Title, or upgrading in talent level of their school. That scares kids. Trust me.

This is in general, by the way, a pointless argument since it is 100% opinion.
This is Daoust's third year coaching the DL. The asst. HC title has nothing to do with his prowess as a position coach other than confirming that he is a valuable member of the staff.
 
In your opinion, our current coaches will do well (i happen to agree). but none of them are proven, with the possible exception of Moore. i will give you him. Everyone else is either upgrading in Title, or upgrading in talent level of their school. That scares kids. Trust me.

This is in general, by the way, a pointless argument since it is 100% opinion.

You do realize that these kids are going to spend the next 4 years of their lives being coached, mentored, and led by the STAFF? You honestly think that a bunch of strangers, most of which they will never see or meet, sending them messages on twitter is going to have more weight in their recruitment than their relationship with the staff and confidence in the staff?
 
Not a single coach on our staff has proven that they can succeed at their current Job Title. Despite that, we have what is shaping up to be our best recruiting class in over a decade. Social media is HUGE. Facilities certainly play a role. The move to the ACC does as well, since kids from Florida can play close to home (although we have a bunch of guys who are not from the South in the class already).

I never said twitter was kids make a choice. But at a school like SU, who will ALWAYS be recruiting against warmer climate schools and well established schools, we are rarely going to be a top recruits' runaway choice. So anyone that we do get will have chosen us due to a small factor here or there that other schools did not have. That is twitter army.
As was mentioned by another poster, your habit of speaking in absolutes really undermines your writing. You are trafficking in areas that don't warrant absolutes, as speculating as to percentages of each factors that leads a recruit to choose Syracuse is inexact, to put it mildly.

Still, we can reason and speculate. Your reasoning is long on "trust me" (and a shot at bnoro's age) and short on, well, reason. You attempt to account for all these other factors and then conclude it's got to be the twitter army. Nowhere do you account for opportunity. A big factor in getting some of these good but not elite kids to Syracuse is opportunity (lets face it, Syracuse isn't, and has never really, gone after and landed truly elite recruits) is the ability to tell them they can be a small fish in a big pond, get recruited over every year, and potentially never see the field or they can come to Syracuse and be the man. That will resonate with some and not others, of course, but it is a major factor in decision making. Zaire Franklin said, upon committing, that he just felt Syracuse really needed him.

But forget about opportunity for a second. There's also the simple fact that scholarship limits force kids in talent rich states like Florida north. Syracuse isn't winning very many recruiting battles against Miami/FSU/UF for Florida kids (or any other kids for that matter). But these schools can only take so many, and Florida produces more talent than local schools can keep. So, as you mention, Syracuse's conference affiliation plays a big role in getting their foot in the door with these recruits, as well as coach relationships. It is no accident that Syracuse very quickly pulled some quality kids from Florida very quickly in the aftermath of Marrone's exit, when MacDonald hit the scene. He is well known with established relationships with the high school coaches and was able to sell a fast paced explosive offense indoors. The Twitter army had nothing to do with these recruits.

To frame it another way, during Syracuse's run of success in the late 80's through the 90's, they managed to effectively recruit Florida. To use your framing, Syracuse needed to have an edge to get these kids who did not immediately think Syracuse to commit there. Twitter did not yet exist, yet Syracuse found success. Occam's Razor says that those factors that led to success are the same factors that lead to success now (emphasis on recruiting there/coaching relationships, exciting offense, team presence in Florida (in those BE days of the 90's Syracuse would play @Miami every other year), opportunity, track record of putting players in the NFL, etc). Unless you can show any of those things to be obsolete or not a factor, it is simply unreasonable to think that the recent advent of the twitter army has supplanted those historical factors and rocketed to a position on the list where it is heavily responsible for reeling in recruits.

One final thought - if the supposed effectiveness of the twitter army is to show a recruit how passionate and involved a fan base is, then isn't this easily undone by simply showing what the Dome looks like on any given Saturday the past several seasons? Like it or not, the Dome isn't selling out 55k (or so) seats where many of these other schools are selling out up to double that. If I'm recruiting against Syracuse and the kid seems impressed with the twitter love, I just point to a picture of a half filled Dome and say it is smoke and mirrors. For the sake of Syracuse, I really really really hope the twitter love isn't a big piece of the recruiting pie, because if it is we're doomed.
 
Oh man this twitter debate is getting old. The coaches are encouraging fans to 'show love' on twitter, so maybe the university said something about it in the past but clearly Gross isn't concerned now. Many many fans from every single division 1 program are engaged in this activity. The spirit of the ncaa rules is to keep money, gifts, and favors from entering the process. Twitter is akin to attending a kids game and yelling out when he comes out onto the field 'hope to see you in orange next year'. kid turns around and has no idea who said it.

Just think about this logically. This cannot be controlled by the university. And were the ncaa to police it they would have to just take scholarships from every single program. there is no fair way to touch this stuff, nor would they try given the mayhem that would ensue. Do you think they have the time/staff/resources/ABILITY to figure out who literally millions of people tweeting under random made up names actually are?? You could have opposing team fans tweeting under false names to throw rivals under the bus. The legal hoops they would have to jump through to prove identity and intent are so large that for so small an 'infraction' it makes absolutely no sense. How many YEARS has it taken them to do NOTHING against an obviously insanely corrupt Miami program? If they can't close that deal they face impossible odds doing anything about fans on twitter. Not to mention the fact that all the twitter action boosts interest in their brand and breadwinner div 1 football.

I think twitter is incredibly stupid and a total waste of time. but the kids seem to love it. The guy who's thread has been hijacked here mentioned it as a primary reason for committing. so maybe time to let go of the wet blanket and recognize that this is akin to lots of fans showing up for the games - it just is an expression of fan support and interest. and EVERYONE is doing it. Silence our twitter army at peril of our recruiting future. find something worth your while to worry about.
 
Get me a lockdown corner who can tackle and it gives the defense a lot of options.
 
What is Twitter? Judas, everyone takes themselves so seriously. Can we just stop talking about it? Who cares? Put it to bed.
 
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