Class of 2019 - CG Joe Girard III (NY) SIGNED WITH SYRACUSE | Page 27 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2019 CG Joe Girard III (NY) SIGNED WITH SYRACUSE

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SUbear said:
No offer is definitely no chance. Syracuse has one advantage, proximity. You are right he may select another school, which is true for every player.
Beilein may or may not have the inside track, but his family could see him play much easier at SU or even BC. Michigan is a pretty good jaunt from Glens Falls.
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what I posted is not an opinion.
 
RF2044 said:
We scored 51 points yesterday. Tired of passing on players who can fill it up, because they aren't perfect system fits defensively.
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unfortunately he's passing on us. (at least as it stands now.)
 
PhatOrange said:
unfortunately he's passing on us. (at least as it stands now.)
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Totally get it, not disputing that [I've posted similar assessments earlier in this thread]. I'm lamenting our staff passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole to pursue players with lesser offensive skill who are a little more athletic.

College basketball is so guard driven, having subpar guards is a real detriment. Who cares if Girard isn't a perfect system fit defensively -- was GMac or Flynn? Would Quade Green have been? The team we lost to last night had a bench guard who scored 15 points. Maybe Girard isn't a guy who "fits" the archetype here, but maybe he could provide scoring pop off the bench, a la Jackson.

I know none of the above was your point, PhatOrange, I'm just venting.
 
Good points. We are not only starved for offense (especially shooters), we're starved for PLAYERS. The bench is 2 guys. I know we're on restriction, but we have 11 scholarships to hand out. Hard to understand.
 
RF2044 said:
Totally get it, not disputing that [I've posted similar assessments earlier in this thread]. I'm lamenting our staff passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole to pursue players with lesser offensive skill who are a little more athletic.

College basketball is so guard driven, having subpar guards is a real detriment. Who cares if Girard isn't a perfect system fit defensively -- was GMac or Flynn? Would Quade Green have been? The team we lost to last night had a bench guard who scored 15 points. Maybe Girard isn't a guy who "fits" the archetype here, but maybe he could provide scoring pop off the bench, a la Jackson.

I know none of the above was your point, PhatOrange, I'm just venting.
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understood.

I think the rock and the hard place for JB is/was the fact that as the kid was raining three's he was 5-9, then 5-10, then 5-11. It's a tough situation to be in, yes he can hit threes all day long but can he face man pressure from 6-4 ACC guards. IDK and that's an issue TBD.

His biggest offer at this point is Michigan and at the end of the day, the plan all along is to join Belien at Michigan. Was informed if some of these phone calls (Duke) turn into offers - which I doubt - but if they do then maybe he doesn't go to Michigan. Duke is the holy grail here and it was for Paulus to. But as I watch the hand ringing (which is the reason I chimed in) people need to understand these guys don't view Syracuse with the same lens we do. To put any blame on JB and staff is not reality in this case.
 
RF2044 said:
Totally get it, not disputing that [I've posted similar assessments earlier in this thread]. I'm lamenting our staff passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole to pursue players with lesser offensive skill who are a little more athletic.

College basketball is so guard driven, having subpar guards is a real detriment. Who cares if Girard isn't a perfect system fit defensively -- was GMac or Flynn? Would Quade Green have been? The team we lost to last night had a bench guard who scored 15 points. Maybe Girard isn't a guy who "fits" the archetype here, but maybe he could provide scoring pop off the bench, a la Jackson.

I know none of the above was your point, PhatOrange, I'm just venting.
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I'm just wondering... you're lamenting passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole, but then proving that in fact Syracuse doesn't pass on guys like that going after Flynn, GMac and Quade. We didn't pass on any of them. The guys coming in like Bazely, Carey and even Buddy all are put the ball in the hole types for next year... it's obvious the staff are going after those guys. So yeah, it sucks currently the way we're playing, we all know that. But, it's not like the staff is just ignoring that or charging ahead without getting guys of that type. Can you explain the "passing" on those types of guys a little more in context of our class moving forward?
 
JDubbin said:
I'm just wondering... you're lamenting passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole, but then proving that in fact Syracuse doesn't pass on guys like that going after Flynn, GMac and Quade. We didn't pass on any of them. The guys coming in like Bazely, Carey and even Buddy all are put the ball in the hole types for next year... it's obvious the staff are going after those guys. So yeah, it sucks currently the way we're playing, we all know that. But, it's not like the staff is just ignoring that or charging ahead without getting guys of that type. Can you explain the "passing" on those types of guys a little more in context of our class moving forward?
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We recruited Gmac in 2002, more than 15 years ago. Flynn was more than 10 years ago. We've had 7 consecutive years of having 7 different starters at point guard. During that span, we've "passed" on Monte Morris -- who went on to have an all-american type of career at Iowa State -- and Jalen Brunson -- who went on to have an all-american type of career at Villanova and won a national championship. It is frustrating to see our coaching staff sacrifice backcourt skill for length. We've been doing it for a long time, and the net result is the product we've seen on the court extending back for 5+ seasons of general offensive futility.

I'm excited about Bazley, but after watching his televised game last week, I'm not sure that he can shoot consistently [not saying that he can't, but he didn't show that skill in any capacity during the game]. I hope that Buddy can shoot consistently, and I'm encouraged by his play at the AAU level and at Brewster, but let's wait and see; Cooney excelled as a shooter in HS, too. Love the Carey addition -- he's exactly the type of guard that we need. Last night, our two guards could barely dribble past anybody -- will be nice to have a guard who can for a change.
 
RF2044 said:
We recruited Gmac in 2002, more than 15 years ago. Flynn was more than 10 years ago. We've had 7 consecutive years of having 7 different starters at point guard. During that span, we've "passed" on Monte Morris -- who went on to have an all-american type of career at Iowa State -- and Jalen Brunson -- who went on to have an all-american type of career at Villanova and won a national championship. It is frustrating to see our coaching staff sacrifice backcourt skill for length. We've been doing it for a long time, and the net result is the product we've seen on the court extending back for 5+ seasons of general offensive futility.

I'm excited about Bazley, but after watching his televised game last week, I'm not sure that he can shoot consistently [not saying that he can't, but he didn't show that skill in any capacity during the game]. I hope that Buddy can shoot consistently, and I'm encouraged by his play at the AAU level and at Brewster, but let's wait and see; Cooney excelled as a shooter in HS, too. Love the Carey addition -- he's exactly the type of guard that we need. Last night, our two guards could barely dribble past anybody -- will be nice to have a guard who can for a change.
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Absolutely. These past handful of years are a result of this and it's really not hard to see. Watch any other P6 game and you'll see guards that can dribble, shoot and make plays. It's so frustrating that we have to slow down and turn games into a slog because of all this.
 
Jasoncuse said:
Absolutely. These past handful of years are a result of this and it's really not hard to see. Watch any other P6 game and you'll see guards that can dribble, shoot and make plays. It's so frustrating that we have to slow down and turn games into a slog because of all this.
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Everyone was complaining that we put "all of our eggs in the basket" of Quade Green, it obviously didn't work out... but he fits that exact description of the guy you want, that just happened last year. We didn't pass on him because of height or "zone fit."
 
Let me caveat by saying this too... we're all frustrated with the offensive futility this season. The Syracuse staff has made some assessment mistakes, including on Jalen Brunson and Monte Morris, but honestly all coaching staff's make poor judgments from time to time with recruiting, Syracuse is not unique in that sense. It's been a conglomeration of a bunch of things of other factors too, I think the staff genuinely thought a Kaleb Joseph would be an explosive, ball handling point guard... bad assessment, he wasn't. I just get frustrated, when the Syracuse fans in this vacuum saying the staff ONLY recruit to "zone fits." I just don't think the evidence is there for that. I do think they have a type they typically pursue of course, but I don't understand how again a Quade Green can be pursued with EVERYTHING (the opposite of "passing on") the staff had... and fans say in the heat of the current season, we only go after tall guards. It's simply not true. End rant.
 
JDubbin said:
Let me caveat by saying this too... we're all frustrated with the offensive futility this season. The Syracuse staff has made some assessment mistakes, including on Jalen Brunson and Monte Morris, but honestly all coaching staff's make poor judgments from time to time with recruiting, Syracuse is not unique in that sense. It's been a conglomeration of a bunch of things of other factors too, I think the staff genuinely thought a Kaleb Joseph would be an explosive, ball handling point guard... bad assessment, he wasn't. I just get frustrated, when the Syracuse fans in this vacuum saying the staff ONLY recruit to "zone fits." I just don't think the evidence is there for that. I do think they have a type they typically pursue of course, but I don't understand how again a Quade Green can be pursued with EVERYTHING (the opposite of "passing on") the staff had... and fans say in the heat of the current season, we only go after tall guards. It's simply not true. End rant.
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Good post.

I'd respond by saying that I haven't seen anybody state that we "only" go after tall guards. The topic of this thread was Girard, who didn't get an offer from our staff, primarily due to not being a system fit. People have brought up GMac, Green, etc. as examples of players that we've pursued who also didn't have the right measureables for zone. I think you've mixed that argument, and are inferring stuff that isn't necessarily implied.

Otherwise, I agree with much of what you state above.
 
JDubbin said:
Let me caveat by saying this too... we're all frustrated with the offensive futility this season. The Syracuse staff has made some assessment mistakes, including on Jalen Brunson and Monte Morris, but honestly all coaching staff's make poor judgments from time to time with recruiting, Syracuse is not unique in that sense. It's been a conglomeration of a bunch of things of other factors too, I think the staff genuinely thought a Kaleb Joseph would be an explosive, ball handling point guard... bad assessment, he wasn't. I just get frustrated, when the Syracuse fans in this vacuum saying the staff ONLY recruit to "zone fits." I just don't think the evidence is there for that. I do think they have a type they typically pursue of course, but I don't understand how again a Quade Green can be pursued with EVERYTHING (the opposite of "passing on") the staff had... and fans say in the heat of the current season, we only go after tall guards. It's simply not true. End rant.
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Yes. It seems like there are a few portions of uneducated fans who simply throw out the generalization of a shorter guard being disqualified as a target for SU beacuse of his “zone fit.” Like you said; Quade and GMac disprove that. Flynn too. The staff like you said went after Quade with everything they said. I’ve never seen a target coveted more. To me that tells me the staff was scared to death of our PG situation going into this season. Quade wasn’t coming here to ride the pine. Well, guess what? I’m scared to death with our PG situation currently. They won’t publicly say so but I’m sure the staff is as well.
 
RF2044 said:
Totally get it, not disputing that [I've posted similar assessments earlier in this thread]. I'm lamenting our staff passing on guys who excel at putting the ball in the hole to pursue players with lesser offensive skill who are a little more athletic.

College basketball is so guard driven, having subpar guards is a real detriment. Who cares if Girard isn't a perfect system fit defensively -- was GMac or Flynn? Would Quade Green have been? The team we lost to last night had a bench guard who scored 15 points. Maybe Girard isn't a guy who "fits" the archetype here, but maybe he could provide scoring pop off the bench, a la Jackson.

I know none of the above was your point, PhatOrange, I'm just venting.
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When SU was more uptempo, yes they were. Tech's guard off of the bench is 23 years old. He's no freshman. He's a cog for that team.
 
SoBeCuse said:
Yes. It seems like there are a few portions of uneducated fans who simply throw out the generalization of a shorter guard being disqualified as a target for SU beacuse of his “zone fit.” Like you said; Quade and GMac disprove that. Flynn too. The staff like you said went after Quade with everything they said. I’ve never seen a target coveted more. To me that tells me the staff was scared to death of our PG situation going into this season. Quade wasn’t coming here to ride the pine. Well, guess what? I’m scared to death with our PG situation currently. They won’t publicly say so but I’m sure the staff is as well.
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They better be!! Our best PG(who wasn't even playing much anyway) is now out for who knows how long. We are looking at 2 combo guards next year playing the point, and adding another one the following year. We've seen those results!
 
cuse10 said:
When SU was more uptempo, yes they were. Tech's guard off of the bench is 23 years old. He's no freshman. He's a cog for that team.
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In a couple of years, Girard won't be a freshman, either. He'll be a physically mature, experienced guard who can provide a lot of scoring pop -- as a starter or off the bench--just like the kid we saw last night from Tech. Girard is the type of guy who could be a cog for THIS team, but instead he'll do it at Michigan or Notre Dame.
 
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RF2044 said:
Really? In a couple of years, Girard won't be a freshman, either. He'll be a physically mature, experienced guard who can provide a lot of scoring pop -- as a starter or off the bench. Girard is the type of guy who could be a cog for THIS team, but instead he'll do it at Michigan or Notre Dame.
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Hopefully its Michigan. He would absolutely light us up with the open looks he'd get against our zone!
 
I get the zone fit/length issue and posted about it myself. And there may be athleticism issues also. At this point, however, we have SEVEN SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS. While things will improve next year, certainly this year we made our restrictions worse than they really are. We still have room next year. Maybe a big is a bigger priority ... if that's the case, I can understand passing on Girard. But wow, shooters are always helpful to a program that has struggled offensively for a while now.
 
reedny said:
I get the zone fit/length issue and posted about it myself. And there may be athleticism issues also. At this point, however, we have SEVEN SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS. We're making our restrictions worse than they really are. If kids like Girard are available, we should be offering them to fill the d---n roster.
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I don't get where people don't think he isn't athletic enough. He was NYS POY in Class B football as a QB, excelling at running and throwing the ball. And he was a star at DB. This isn't some second stringer. He has scholarship offers in two sports.
 
reedny said:
I get the zone fit/length issue and posted about it myself. And there may be athleticism issues also. At this point, however, we have SEVEN SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS. We're making our restrictions worse than they really are. If kids like Girard are available, we should be offering them to fill the d---n roster.
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Agree with this premise. The last couple of years, we've had numerous players get injured [Coleman, Chukwu, Moyer / Washington this year, Frnk last year, etc.] that have really compromised what was already limited depth. Need to move past this state, and get to the point where we have a full roster [even if "full" = 12] so that an injury or two doesn't decimate depth.

JB traditionally has eschewed that practice, because most of the time he's going to play 7 /8 anyway, and the rest aren't going to play. But I think we need to modernize that thinking and recognize that injuries are plaguing us on a near annual basis now, and that we need a full roster to offset the risk of having only 7, 6, or 5 scholarship players to use during games. It is totally unnecessary, and poor roster management in my opinion.

Besides -- other programs don't have a problem doubling up on players of the same position. No reason we can't, too. I think you need to land the best players you can, and let the chips fall where they may in practice. it is counterproductive to only recruit to a preordained lineup / set roles and PT, and not build depth behind your top guys. Road to nowhere, as we've seen these past few seasons, where our injury issues have been compounded by the draconian scholarship limitations from the NCAA.


EDIT -- so much of this would be solved if we pressed a little more, and JB opened up the bench in order to do so. I honestly wouldn't care if we played zone 90% of the time. Hell, 95% of the time. Just make better use of the press, and sub to keep your players fresh while doing so, and the issue takes care of itself [both in terms of players getting PT, and improved depth not languishing on the bench while the main cogs play 38+].
 
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