Challenging years of eligibility

[RF2044]

With all the changes to college sports, how long until somebody challenges the years of eligibility rules?

Can a “student athlete” claim that if they are enrolled in college, they should be able to play sports? Will we see athletes who may not be good enough to go pro stay in school for years, working on additional degrees and collecting more in NIL than they could in any other career? What’s to prevent an athlete from taking the minimal course work to get additional Masters or Bachelors degrees and staying in school for many years?

The colleges would like this as they would have more experienced players and increase their chances of winning.

This would also kill high school recruiting

Would the NCAA have a leg to stand on if this were challenged on court?

My head hurts thinking about what changes will come in the next few years.

Several years ago, I was visiting relatives who lived nearby Phoenix, AZ. My uncle went to Arizona State, and is a huge fan of their sports programs -- so one day he drove us to check out their football stadium, the basketball arena, etc.

Inside the basketball arena, which had a big ring councourse, they had placards hanging up for all of their sports HOF-type players, across many sports. They had one for some football player from like the 1920s, and with zero hyperbole -- the write-up said something to the effect that he played for ASU for 6 years, before going to some other school and playing three more years there.

We got a kick out of that. Seemed ridiculous to think of "amateur" athletics allowing something like that to happen, where a grown as$ man could play college sports for such a long time. But it doesn't seem that far fetched any more, with players routinely now getting 7 or even 8 years to play.

Life is a wheel; things come full circle.

 

[bnoro]

The only thing the athletes are doing that annoy me is that there are guys in college for 8 years. They're taking away spots for younger guys, though my guess is that with youth participation (for football especially/specifically) down and demographics in general that we'll be cheering on 30 year old "kids" soon enough.

Once the 5 year clock lawsuit is settled it won't be happening. COVID was an extraordinary circumstance.

 

[NKR1978]

Once the 5 year clock lawsuit is settled it won't be happening. COVID was an extraordinary circumstance.

I hope you're right. It's ridiculous seeing guys who graduated high school in 2018 on rosters and getting significant playing time.

 

[RF2044]

I hope you're right. It's ridiculous seeing guys who graduated high school in 2018 on rosters and getting significant playing time.

And I don't mind seeing guys get maybe 6 years, if significant injury considerations screw up some of their eligibility.

But that should be the outside boundary, IMO.

 

[NKR1978]

And I don't mind seeing guys get maybe 6 years, if significant injury considerations screw up some of their eligibility.

But that should be the outside boundary, IMO.

6 is my limit. You don't get everything you want in life. Though I don't blame the players for trying, but adults need to say "no."

 

[dan7800]

I'm sure they'll survive, but something has to change.

Other than the University of Phoenix's etc... and obvious scam schools, keep in mind that no colleges make much money. The most a non-profit school can "make" is 3% a year. Sure, there are a some admins making $1M annually, but that's a drop in the bucket when the school has a 1-2 billion budget. A few things:

1. The listed price is merely the sticker price, just like on a car most people don't pay it.
2. IMHO the biggest driver of cost is that schools have been a race to offer nicer amenities than others. Better food, nicer dorms, more support services etc... These things all cost money. At my school, I've noticed the cost of food skyrocket because every dining hall needs a "chef". I also saw the constant hiring of special "consultants" to appease faculty - I have no idea what these folks actually did.
3. Research and the drive towards R1 is killing a lot of schools. The vast majority of research faculty don't carry their weight. They cost money. My guess is that 95% of research faculty don't end up making back their salaries over the course of their careers.
4. A lot of schools are really bloated. When I came from industry, I stated that if it were being run as a company 30-50% of the folks would be immediately gone due to their lack of provided value.

Just my rant.

 

[dan7800]

The only thing the athletes are doing that annoy me is that there are guys in college for 8 years. They're taking away spots for younger guys, though my guess is that with youth participation (for football especially/specifically) down and demographics in general that we'll be cheering on 30 year old "kids" soon enough.

As a freshman, I remember this 27 year "old guy" who was still in college since he was in the Army first. We called him grandpa.

Boy, do I feel ancient now.

 

[Cuse99&01]

Other than the University of Phoenix's etc... and obvious scam schools, keep in mind that no colleges make much money. The most a non-profit school can "make" is 3% a year. Sure, there are a some admins making $1M annually, but that's a drop in the bucket when the school has a 1-2 billion budget. A few things:

1. The listed price is merely the sticker price, just like on a car most people don't pay it.
2. IMHO the biggest driver of cost is that schools have been a race to offer nicer amenities than others. Better food, nicer dorms, more support services etc... These things all cost money. At my school, I've noticed the cost of food skyrocket because every dining hall needs a "chef". I also saw the constant hiring of special "consultants" to appease faculty - I have no idea what these folks actually did.
3. Research and the drive towards R1 is killing a lot of schools. The vast majority of research faculty don't carry their weight. They cost money. My guess is that 95% of research faculty don't end up making back their salaries over the course of their careers.
4. A lot of schools are really bloated. When I came from industry, I stated that if it were being run as a company 30-50% of the folks would be immediately gone due to their lack of provided value.

Just my rant.

Point #3 - talk about an exaggeration. As a faculty member at a R1 institution I would have to disagree with the "vast majority" statement and "95%" estimation. Sure there are some research faculty that don't carry their weight or hang around too long, but that is not the majority of them. In addition to the money brought in for their own salaries you also have to take into account they also help fund/support the salaries of others within a department including students, trainees, staff, and other scientists.

 

[kirbivore]

The only thing the athletes are doing that annoy me is that there are guys in college for 8 years. They're taking away spots for younger guys, though my guess is that with youth participation (for football especially/specifically) down and demographics in general that we'll be cheering on 30 year old "kids" soon enough.

Football will end up like boxing, with only participants being the family legacy types or the financially desperate.

 

[NKR1978]

As a freshman, I remember this 27 year "old guy" who was still in college since he was in the Army first. We called him grandpa.

Boy, do I feel ancient now.

My freshman and sophomore years at Hartwick playing tennis, New Paltz had this legit middle aged man with a wooden racquet. And this was the late 90s, so well past wooden racquet era tennis. Freshman year he beat our #2, who alleged he had an offer from Clemson before he blew out his shoulder. We made up a song that we sung all year "this old man, he beat Dan, with a wooden racquet in his hand." The following year the old guy was their #1 and lost the rematch badly.

 

[upperdeck]

Other than the University of Phoenix's etc... and obvious scam schools, keep in mind that no colleges make much money. The most a non-profit school can "make" is 3% a year. Sure, there are a some admins making $1M annually, but that's a drop in the bucket when the school has a 1-2 billion budget. A few things:

1. The listed price is merely the sticker price, just like on a car most people don't pay it.
2. IMHO the biggest driver of cost is that schools have been a race to offer nicer amenities than others. Better food, nicer dorms, more support services etc... These things all cost money. At my school, I've noticed the cost of food skyrocket because every dining hall needs a "chef". I also saw the constant hiring of special "consultants" to appease faculty - I have no idea what these folks actually did.
3. Research and the drive towards R1 is killing a lot of schools. The vast majority of research faculty don't carry their weight. They cost money. My guess is that 95% of research faculty don't end up making back their salaries over the course of their careers.
4. A lot of schools are really bloated. When I came from industry, I stated that if it were being run as a company 30-50% of the folks would be immediately gone due to their lack of provided value.

Just my rant.

Since I have been around campus for 40 years I would agree with some of this.

I don't think schools are bloated. I think the bigger issue is that salaries are really fairly low and you get what you pay for. If you have to pay two people to get one worth of work that is the cost of doing business
But you also have to have redundancy built in with the staff.

Much like fball you only need 11 guys why do we have 100 on a roster?

And what business is not built the same way?

For sure research costs money. Buildings and labs and faculty cost money. Is there any company doing research that doesnt sink a ton into it and hope to get it back.

Colleges do the research, but it also gets them the better faculty and the students in the long run.

 

[nocohalo]

If I had it my way I'd make it so that you can't be older than 23.5 and half to play college sports. Maybe an exception for something like military service. We used to have unspoken agreements when it came to social norms and expectations with college athletics.

 

[sufandu]

Interestingly all of the univ/colleges my college freshman got accepted to presented financial aid packages that at the end of the day would cost around 25k/year regardless of starting price.

This is a few UNC schools and 3 private schools in NC. Advertised cost of attendance ranged from 20k-95k/ year.

Most of the academic advisors also mentioned many grad school programs being fully funded. She is biology/stem so that might be unique to the field.

I'm not saying don't save. But socking away that much money for something that might happen is a big ask (unless its doable).

Can't borrow for retirement.

My strategy for both kids 529 was to keep 3 years of the average state college costs in the plan. I figure I can contribute more starting the freshman year to cover the 4th year. So around 70-75k each.
It's a good amount, and better than nothing.

What I didn't plan for was my oldest enrolling in a early college high school. So she graduated HS with an associates in science and HS diploma. Effectively chopping off the first 2 years (gen ed) of her bachelors..
The other one is in a honors school within her HS and will probably graduate with at least 1 year worth of AP and community college credit.

Had a professor say numerous times that if you pay for grad school you're doing it wrong. Pay for a good undergrad degree, then let someone pay you to go to grad school. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, such as career specifc programs like Physical Therapy.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah, it was more fun when the schools were bringing in hundreds of millions and the players were getting paid under the table (or not at all).

It was more fun before the schools were bringing in hundreds of millions and the head coaches made at most the low six figures.

 

[Nicknack]

Getting paid for providing a skilled service that brings in revenue for the school. What a terrible thing!

Don't beat yourself up, it isn't all that bad. They do provide us entertainment after all.