Class of 2020 Position Analysis | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2020 Position Analysis

I am not saying the class is a failure because we aren’t getting all 4/5 star players nor am I singling out missing on priority targets. Both are completely understandable. Just want to constructively talk about filling positional needs. Also wasn’t comparing us to UGa by any means just responding to a comment that was saying they recruit RB every year even though they have good ones and that is an applicable concept to our backfield and defensive backfield.

Does anyone want to talk constructively about positional analysis in this class now?

I’m not saying any player isn’t good or isn’t good enough. Just wondering about what positions we should be focusing on from a macro perspective. Any caliber player can pan out, but if your system needs big, long corners or taller outside WRs, etc then you should recruit to those needs as well as backfilling positions of strength.

At a macro positional level someone please constructively respond with what in the class you think we’ve accomplished and not accomplished to this extent. Not just missing out on Gowdy or certain priority recruits, but filling positions groups specifically opposed to just where we sit in the cumulative recruiting ranking that we all agree is sometimes meaningless or at least can be somewhat overcome.
 
We have been
I've given my constructive analysis about the class and also have replied to some of your concerns about the class.
We are doing a great job of getting kids for our system
Ben Labrosse would be a 4 star easy if he lived in FL.
Steven Mahar was a huge priority for the staff and a great git.
Tucker & Wax will give us depth at RB back in '20 and will carry the load by '22 (if not recruited over).
Bell & Hanna are good kids that a few years in the S&C program will be ready for our next wave of secondary.
Garth Barclay is the perfect size and good prospect for our OL.
Lowery/Lemieux are great pick ups at a position of need and could fill out to be starters or solid rotation guys.
Thompson has a great shot of being our MLB of the future next to the studs from last years class.
llaoa has good size for a high school kid and I have no doubt that our S&C will mold him into a good DLmen for us.
Justin Barron is a solid pick up at ATH and these are the types of kids Dino and company love to have for the offense.
And finally my favorite so far in this class James Williams will continue or new tradition of dominate kickers for years to come.
 
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I kinda think it depends on what people envision our ceiling to be.

If people are envisioning that the annual Clemson game is the de facto ACC championship/playoff berth dependent contest, yeah, our recruiting is deficient.

If people are envisioning a fringe or better Top 25 team, given what the staff has accomplished so far, our class, especially this early and at a point when it's incomplete, look just fine.

I'd also add, some of our highest rated guys were very late commits last season. The best may yet to be come in terms of rated talent.
 
As I've posted elsewhere, my big concerns are DL, specifically DT and QB. All we have left next year at DT who has done anything is Josh Black (assuming he's healthy and back). Not only are the other guys unproven, but most of them are very undersized for DT. Hopefully, they can put on the weight quickly, but not everyone can (See Pickard, Jake). I hope the staff is checking out the JC ranks for a DT who is ready to play day 1.

I don't need to remind everyone how often our QB has missed time over the past few years (every single year). I am optimistic about Welch, would like another good QB recruit to up the numbers there.

We'll be okay at WR.
 
As I've posted elsewhere, my big concerns are DL, specifically DT and QB. All we have left next year at DT who has done anything is Josh Black (assuming he's healthy and back). Not only are the other guys unproven, but most of them are very undersized for DT. Hopefully, they can put on the weight quickly, but not everyone can (See Pickard, Jake). I hope the staff is checking out the JC ranks for a DT who is ready to play day 1.

I don't need to remind everyone how often our QB has missed time over the past few years (every single year). I am optimistic about Welch, would like another good QB recruit to up the numbers there.

We'll be okay at WR.
i feel like some of the downtime at QB was almost self inflicted at times. not saying it will be perfect but there are plenty of teams where the starting QB doesnt go down at all during the season.
 
We have been
I've given my constructive analysis about the class and also have replied to some of your concerns about the class.
We are doing a great job of getting kids for our system
Ben Labrosse would be a 4 star easy if he lived in FL.
Steven Mahar was a huge priority for the staff and a great git.
Tucker & Wax will give us depth at RB back in '20 and will carry the load by '22 (if not recruited over).
Bell & Hanna are good kids that a few years in the S&C program will be ready for our next wave of secondary.
Garth Barclay is the perfect size and good prospect for our OL.
Lowery/Lemieux are great pick ups at a position of need and could fill out to be starters or solid rotation guys.
Thompson has a great shot of being our MLB of the future next to the studs from last years class.
llaoa has good size for a high school kid and I have no doubt that our S&C will mold him into a good DLmen for us.
Justin Barron is a solid pick up at ATH and these are the types of kids Dino and company love to have for the offense.
And finally my favorite so far in this class James Williams will continue or new tradition of dominate kickers for years to come.
This is specific recruit/commit analysis. I’m saying like on our roster we have x corners. I think we should look to add 1 more corner. I like all of our commits and think they all have a chance. I’m just asking for a macro level analysis. Not a micro analysis of each recruit.
 
So much happens once coaches get fired/leave etc in the fall I wouldn't be worried at this point honestly. The staff should have earned everyones trust by now
 
This is specific recruit/commit analysis. I’m saying like on our roster we have x corners. I think we should look to add 1 more corner. I like all of our commits and think they all have a chance. I’m just asking for a macro level analysis. Not a micro analysis of each recruit.
Well you got what I gave you :p
I did a quick look over of the roster, specially the Jr/Sr classes
We are losing over the next two years the following:
3 WR
3 TE
3 RB
2 QB
7 OL
2 K/P
2 LB
10 DL
6 DB

I would expect a few more OL in this class, WR, QB (if we find the right fit), a few more DL/DE
It might look like we are losing alot at DB but we will still have 13 on the roster and we've taken two safeties this cycle not sure if we take a CB unless it's someone high on the staffs board.
So to me it seems the staff has done a good job of filling some positions of need so far with some work to do.
 
This is specific recruit/commit analysis. I’m saying like on our roster we have x corners. I think we should look to add 1 more corner. I like all of our commits and think they all have a chance. I’m just asking for a macro level analysis. Not a micro analysis of each recruit.

Well, here's the thing: WE don't know how many of "Player position X slots" the coaching staff has allotted for each position in this year's class.
We can guess, we can speculate.

Clearly, the guys they have taken so far are all TAKES at their respective positions, or we would not have accepted their commitments (yet).

And there are other potential guys - you mentioned Burger - that are a TAKE pretty much regardless, just because:
they are that good, and also,
positions are flexible, nothing is chiseled in stone.

I have no doubt the staff - in a perfect world - would like to take:
a QB
DT or 2
(or DE's with the frame to grow into DT's - if they dedicate themselves to S&C ;))
OL or 2 or 3
elite outside WR or 2
etc.

Whatever 'holes' are left after NSD 1 & 2, they will then look at Grad & JUCO xfers to fill.
 
Something I haven't seen mentioned is the coaches have a good idea who may not be on the team next year or who are at risk for transfer...most of us do not. DB/RB are usually very good athletes and can help with special teams so it may make sense to add there. Same would be true of LB.
 
Will just chirp here on the concern over DB's. I think 5 and even 6 DB's per class are going to be the norm going forward. It's important to remember that nickel sets are really base defenses nowadays. And a db today, especially the nickel or star and strong safety are used in hybrid roles where they are more like linebackers than traditional db's. This year's class, I see alot of versatility in the db's so far. Bell and Labrosse both stand out as just ridiculously athletic guys who are versatile enough to play 4 out of the 5 spots. Again, how they develop will determine where they eventually fit. I think that's the right approach, select for attributes and get the best athletes you can, develop them, and fit will work itself out once you have some depth established.
 
I am not saying the class is a failure because we aren’t getting all 4/5 star players nor am I singling out missing on priority targets. Both are completely understandable. Just want to constructively talk about filling positional needs. Also wasn’t comparing us to UGa by any means just responding to a comment that was saying they recruit RB every year even though they have good ones and that is an applicable concept to our backfield and defensive backfield.

Does anyone want to talk constructively about positional analysis in this class now?

I’m not saying any player isn’t good or isn’t good enough. Just wondering about what positions we should be focusing on from a macro perspective. Any caliber player can pan out, but if your system needs big, long corners or taller outside WRs, etc then you should recruit to those needs as well as backfilling positions of strength.

At a macro positional level someone please constructively respond with what in the class you think we’ve accomplished and not accomplished to this extent. Not just missing out on Gowdy or certain priority recruits, but filling positions groups specifically opposed to just where we sit in the cumulative recruiting ranking that we all agree is sometimes meaningless or at least can be somewhat overcome.

Fair enough.

First of all, one of the reasons that fishes & loaves is an interesting but ultimately pointless activity is that things change. We can't just base the # of open scholarships on how many players are listed as seniors -- because there is always unexpected attrition [like Shy Cullen last year] that nobody sees coming, which opens up a few extra scholarships. But as a starting point:
  • We have 23 seniors / redshirt seniors listed on the roster; of that, only two [by my count] are walk ons
  • So as of today, we have room to accommodate 21 recruits in the class of 2020, not accounting for a few extra via unplanned attrition [I'd expect us to be able to bring a 24-25 when the dust settles]
  • Per one recruiting service, we have 14 commits as of today: Syracuse 2020 Football Commits
    • So, per the above, we have 7 open slots to fill right now
    • BUT, that number could rise to 10 or 11, depending upon attrition
Those are the basic logistics. Let's dive into a positional breakdown. I'll start with defense:


Defensive End:

Current situation: One of the key strengths of the team. Stalwarts Robinson / Coleman are seniors, as is key reserve Berry. Kingsley is a junior, and Morton is a sophomore. Some of the younger players, like Okechukwu could play inside or outside -- as could Munoz, Dawson, Linton, and Tuazama.

A player at LB like Tyrell Richards might also factor in here down the road.

Current state: One of the best positional units on the team
2020 Recruits: Leon Lowery, Kevin Lemiux
Trend: Cause for concern. Our DL is upperclassman heavy at both positions, and young players like Morton are unproven. We've got nice materials in the pipeline, but whether they are as talented as the current group remains to be seen. If the class of 2019 / 2020 prospects pan out, this group is positioned for long-term success -- but there don't appear to be any truly dynamic game changers [a la Robinson] in that group. Time will tell.


Defensive Tackle:

Current situation:
A strong unit must compensate for the loss of NFL draft pick Chris Slayton, but returns three proven commodities in Williams, Black, and Ruff. That's a great starting point -- but we need at minimum a rotation of 4 to keep guys fresh.

Sophomore Harper projects as the most likely player to step into the rotation, but a strong group of young players could challenge -- including Munoz, Rondi, Dawson, Okechukwu, and Tuazama. Grosvenor starts camp as the #2 projected NT, so perhaps he factors in, as well.

As stated above, at minimum we need 4 to have a viable rotation, which means that AT LEAST one of the names listed above needs to contribute. If we can find 5 or more who can play -- even better.

Current state: Strong, but need at least one DT to emerge to give us a solid rotation
2020 Recruits: None [Ilaoa might end up here instead of OG]
Trend: Concerned. DT needs to be a concerted focus as the staff rounds out the class of 2020. I believe that we loaded up on prospects who project to DT in the class of 2019, but those players might need a year [or two] to grow into the role.


Linebacker:

Current situation:
Inexperienced -- but with the raw materials to emerge as a positional unit of strength as the season unfolds.

Former JUCO transfer Williams and Armstrong are seniors with big frames. Williams played mostly on special teams; Armstrong on passing downs. Both will be relied upon to provide consistency as this unit gets their sea legs. Richards played a lot last year [albeit at DE] and is a stud athlete with wheels. Syracuse fought off Georgia to retain Wallace. Highly rated true frosh Jones / Kpogba enrolled early and participated in spring ball, and Cantin-Arku is an impressive looking prospect.

If I had to guess, I think that with that nucleus, a group of 4-5 will emerge to give us some flexibility / depth. I also think that it is likely that when this group coalesces into a rotation, that we'll be better against the run than last year.

We will also undoubtedly see situations where we play two traditional LBs, shift Foster to play like a 3rd LB at 215 pounds, and sub him with one of our host of quality DB players, depending upon situational need.

Current state: Totally unproven -- with the potential to be strong as this group gains experience.
2020 Recruits: Thompson, who projects at MLB [Wax might also end up at LB, depending on how things shake out]
Trend: Stinks that we are starting over for the second time in two consecutive years, but the raw materials in the pipeline are strong. Adding Jones / Kpogba / Cantin-Arku last year and Thompson this year gives us a young group of studs to build around long-term.


Defensive Back:

Current situation:
What the coaching staff has done with the secondary is truly remarkable. We are absolutely LOADED with depth, talent, speed, athleticism at BOTH corner back and safety.

At CB, Fredrick is one of the top corners nationally. Depth is so good that last year's starter Bradshaw might get bumped to Nickel. Trill Williams and 6-3 Melifonwu are future pros, with NFL physiques / capabilities. Stritzinger had an INT in the bowl game, and looks poised for a bigger season. Depth was so strong, that JUCO transfer [and former virginia tech commit] Johnson didn't even see the field. We also had a strong group in the class of 2019 who will hopefully get a chance to redshirt.

At S, Cisco was a freshman all american at FS, and Foster brings LB size to the SS position. Jonas, Coley, Clarke, and Greenwood supply depth behind this talented group of starters. And I haven't even mentioned Nunn -- one of the gems out of the class of 2019.

Nor have I brought up the return of former starter, Cordy, who could play both slot CB and S interchangeably.

Current state: LOADED!
2020 Recruits: LeBrrosse [CB/S], Bell [CB/S], Hanna , Atkinson
Trend: Legion of boom. This group rivals just about anybody in the country in depth, talent, speed, and versatility. And the pipeline is stocked with quality prospects to keep the talent level high here for years to come.

Secondary is so important in college football, and the coaching staff has done a brilliant job of bringing in difference makers.



Now, let's take a look at offense:


Quarteback:

Current situation:
Inexperienced -- but with high hopes based upon DeVito's strong play against FSU and North Carolina last year.

Eric Dungey ended his four year stranglehold on the QB position on a high note, guiding the team to double digit wins and a bowl victory. But the oft-injured QB also ceded some PT to DeVito, who alternated between looking shaky and looking like the difference making 4-star arm talent that he was reported to be. In the past, we would have rushed a prospect like DeVito onto the field as a true frosh, subjecting him to injury, playing him before he wasn't ready, and risking him lapsing into bad habits behind poor offensive lines. but with Dungey ahead of him, DeVito redshirted, then was able to see the field situationally last year. He had some ups and downs, but also won a pair of important games for us. And he got to head into the entire off-season as the prohibitive starter -- and build upon that as the clear cut #1 starter throughout spring ball and offseason workouts. Now a third year player who knows the system and has PT under his belt, he is perfectly positioned to step into a bigger role.

Walk on Clayton Welch is #2 on the depth chart. Reports suggest that he is similar to Dungey in that he is a strong dual threat QB who moves the chains. Remains to be seen what he can do, but the reports are encouraging about his capabilities. Culpepper has started a game, and is a decent #3. Summers redshirts barring catastrophe, to maximize his value as a long term asset.

Current state: It's DeVito's time to shine -- he's positioned well to ascend, but needs to prove it as a starter.
2020 Recruits: None so far
Trend: It all depends on DeVito -- can he avoid injury? Will he prove to be above average? Is he a better fit for Babers's offense than Dungey was? If those questions get answered positively, then Tommy has a good chance to be a three year starter, affording us time to stock the pipeline with QB talent.

Summers was a quality "get" in the class of 2019. Need to add another one this year to replenish the pipeline. One of the major needs remaining in the class of 2020.


Running Back:

Current situation:
Studs, with tons of competition for PT.

Adams started the bowl game and showed what he could do, scoring a pair of touchdowns. He's our first true breakaway threat in awhile, and has the power to excel as an inside runner, too. Total package.

Moe Neal could be a poor man's Reggie Bush, and is coming off of a year where he rushed for more than 850 yards. Another stud.

Jarveon Howard looks like a grown ass man, and plays like it, too.

Hard to see where snaps are going to come from behind this trio, but Jawhar Jordan looks like a difference maker - and could contribute as a kickoff returner as well. Does he eventually project to slot?

Pierre could be a quality player, but might get squeezed out by depth. Johnson hopefully is able to redshirt.

Current state: Totally unproven -- with the potential to be strong as this group gains experience.
2020 Recruits: Tucker, Wax
Trend: Strong, with the raw materials in the pipeline to remain that way for a LONG time.


Wide Receiver:

Current situation:
One of the deepest, most talented positional units on the team. Its hard to believe that heading into LAST year, we had ZERO proven commodities and were counting on Devin C. Butler to be a bell cow. He quickly got supplanted by a number of players who proved to be more than up to the challenge.

We have WRs in every shape, size, and capability. the core nucleus will likely be T. Jackson, N. Johnson, Harris, and Riley [who is small but emerged as a big time playmaker]. Behind them, we have a talented group that will be competing for PT, including Queely / S. Johnson, Hendrix, Thompson-Bishop, and Jordan.

Don't sleep on Lutz or walk ons like Kevin Johnson, Jr. / James Cherry down the road.

Only questions heading into the season are: will C. Jackson redshirt or is he too good to keep off the field? Does Jawhar Jordan eventually transition to slot or stay at RB?

Otherwise, this group is LOADED.

Current state: One of the best positional units on the team.
2020 Recruits: None so far
Trend: SU has struck out on several top rated WR prospects in the class of 2020, including Gowdy [yesterday]. Will be interesting to see how the staff rebounds. Despite this, the incumbents plus the strong group we've added the past two years gives us TONS of quality options, and make WR a key strength of the team for several years, whether we add anybody to the class of 2020 or not.


Tight End:

Current situation:
Very inexperienced group. It is unclear how Babers plans to use TEs in his offense, as Pierce was wildly inconsistent and a walking personal foul threat.

Hackett could be very good, but he spent a significant portion of last year injured. If he can bounce back, he could have a big year. Versatile FB / TE / DT Elmore could see time here as either an H-back or as an in-line blocker. Connors is a former walk on. Benson is a speed demon who might redshirt.

Current state: Not sure what we currently have -- lots of question marks here.
2020 Recruits: Mahar, Barron might project here or at safety
Trend: Disconcerting, but trending towards quality. I like Hackett's potential -- a lot. Him being healthy could go a long way toward solidifying this unproven positional unit. Benson looks like he could eventually be a mismatch problem, and Mahar has described himself as a WR -- so the future looks bright.

Unlike many positional units, TE is a spot where Babers and his staff haven't yet fully actualized upgrading the talent. That appears to be changing, if Benson / Mahar pan out down the road.


Offensive Line:

Current situation:
Always tough when you replace two starting OTs. The coaching staff has done a nice job in every class since they came on board adding pieces of the puzzle at OL, redshirting them, and then building depth. With Martin / Conway gone, new OTs will have to emerge.

We have several players with position versatility, such as Servais [C or T?], Heckel [C or G?], Vetterello [T, G, or C?]. We also welcome 5th year transfer [and three year starter] Alexander from South Alabama. He needs to nail down one of the OT spots -- will it be LT or RT?

We return three starters in Servais, Adams, and Heckel [2018]; add Alexander to that mix, and we have four starters in some combination. Where will they play -- TBD. Dakota Davis is a key reserve at G. Pat Davis got injured in spring practice, and will look to supply depth. Qadir White was a 4-star who has shifted inside to guard. Vetterello cracked the two-deep as a true frosh -- he could play at T, G, or C. Tisdale is a JUCO transfer -- how quickly will he pick things up? Red participated in spring ball, and was listed as the starting RT [probably token] at the start of camp.

Ultimately, which player land at the two open OT positions will likely have a trickle down / cascade effect on the where the rest of the players line up. For example, does Servais stay at C, or does he shift out to OT? Does a player like Vetterello seize the LT role? Is Tisdale ready for the two deep, or not? Will a senior like Euerig or a walk on like Chandler provide some platoon depth?

LOVE the impact that Mike Cavanaugh made on this unit last year; needs to have a similar impact in year 2.

Players like Bergeron and Red will hopefully redshirt, but it is not difficult to envision these two as multi-year starting OTs down the road.

Current state: 4 out of 5 starters seem set in stone, but lots of question marks. The performance of this group might determine whether the outcome of the 2020 season is successful or subpar -- no exaggeration.
2020 Recruits: Barclay projects [at 6-7] as an athletic LT, Ilaoa as an OG [if he doesn't shift to DT]
Trend: Needs improvement. To be an elite program with our offensive system, we need to improve the play at OL. In a short period of time, the coaching staff has restocked the pipeline with quality prospects, but we still aren't quite where we need to be. Lots of OT types -- but not a lot of players who project on the interior, especially at C [where the loss of Sampson smarts].


Sorry for writing a book, but that's how I see the status of each positional unit, based both upon the current state players we have, how proven they are, how those groups are performing, and what recruits we have in the pipeline.

Overall, DE, WR, RB, CB, and S are our team strengths.

We have quality materials in the pipeline at LB and OT, and to a lesser extent TE.

And our main areas of need to improve the talent base is at DT, QB, OG, and C.

These four areas are where we need to focus the bulk of our recruiting for the remaining slots in the class of 2020.

Ideally, here's how I would like to see our remaining 7 spots filled:

  • 2 defensive tackles [these could also be bigger DEs a la Slayton, Williams, Munoz, and Dawson with the potential to "grow" into athletic DTs]
  • 1 OG
  • 1 OC
  • 1 QB -- need to land a high quality prospect here, not just a warm body
  • 2 WRs
If additional positions open up -- and they will via attrition, they always do -- then I'd like to see the staff add the best talent available at any position. But at minimum, we need to fill the above slots in the class of 2020 to avoid having roster "holes" / imbalances, or to risk critical depletion of depth at a key positional unit if an injury occurs.

My opinion only, but the class of 2020 is strong, and predicated heavily upon camp offers. That's a great sign. And it is also amazing that an unrated prospect like LaBrosse isn't on the recruiting services' radar, but once they take a look he immediately vaults just below 4 star rating. I would expect several of our recruits to bump up a little once they are rated.

But ultimately, the subjective "value" of this class will be predicated upon whether we land a decent QB, stockpile prospects at DT, add a few interior linemen, and add some dynamic playmakers at WR to a talented, competitive group that we already have.
 
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Fair enough.

First of all, one of the reasons that fishes & loaves is an interesting but ultimately pointless activity is that things change. We can't just base the # of open scholarships on how many players are listed as seniors -- because there is always unexpected attrition [like Shy Cullen last year] that nobody sees coming, which opens up a few extra scholarships. But as a starting point:
  • We have 23 seniors / redshirt seniors listed on the roster; of that, only two [by my count] are walk ons
  • So as of today, we have room to accommodate 21 recruits in the class of 2020, not accounting for a few extra via unplanned attrition [I'd expect us to be able to bring a 24-25 when the dust settles]
  • Per one recruiting service, we have 14 commits as of today: Syracuse 2020 Football Commits
    • So, per the above, we have 7 open slots to fill right now
    • BUT, that number could rise to 10 or 11, depending upon attrition
Those are the basic logistics. Let's dive into a positional breakdown. I'll start with defense:


Defensive End:

Current situation: One of the key strengths of the team. Stalwarts Robinson / Coleman are seniors, as is key reserve Berry. Kingsley is a junior, and Morton is a sophomore. Some of the younger players, like Okechukwu could play inside or outside -- as could Munoz, Dawson, Linton, and Tuazama.

A player at LB like Tyrell Richards might also factor in here down the road.

Current state: One of the best positional units on the team
2020 Recruits: Leon Lowery, Kevin Lemiux
Trend: Cause for concern. Our DL is upperclassman heavy at both positions, and young players like Morton are unproven. We've got nice materials in the pipeline, but whether they are as talented as the current group remains to be seen. If the class of 2019 / 2020 prospects pan out, this group is positioned for long-term success -- but there don't appear to be any truly dynamic game changers [a la Robinson] in that group. Time will tell.


Defensive Tackle:

Current situation:
A strong unit must compensate for the loss of NFL draft pick Chris Slayton, but returns three proven commodities in Williams, Black, and Ruff. That's a great starting point -- but we need at minimum a rotation of 4 to keep guys fresh.

Sophomore Harper projects as the most likely player to step into the rotation, but a strong group of young players could challenge -- including Munoz, Rondi, Dawson, Okechukwu, and Tuazama. Grosvenor starts camp as the #2 projected NT, so perhaps he factors in, as well.

As stated above, at minimum we need 4 to have a viable rotation, which means that AT LEAST one of the names listed above needs to contribute. If we can find 5 or more who can play -- even better.

Current state: Strong, but need at least one DT to emerge to give us a solid rotation
2020 Recruits: None [Ilaoa might end up here instead of OG]
Trend: Concerned. DT needs to be a concerted focus as the staff rounds out the class of 2020. I believe that we loaded up on prospects who project to DT in the class of 2019, but those players might need a year [or two] to grow into the role.


Linebacker:

Current situation:
Inexperienced -- but with the raw materials to emerge as a positional unit of strength as the season unfolds.

Former JUCO transfer Williams and Armstrong are seniors with big frames. Williams played mostly on special teams; Armstrong on passing downs. Both will be relied upon to provide consistency as this unit gets their sea legs. Richards played a lot last year [albeit at DE] and is a stud athlete with wheels. Syracuse fought off Georgia to retain Wallace. Highly rated true frosh Jones / Kpogba enrolled early and participated in spring ball, and Cantin-Arku is an impressive looking prospect.

If I had to guess, I think that with that nucleus, a group of 4-5 will emerge to give us some flexibility / depth. I also think that it is likely that when this group coalesces into a rotation, that we'll be better against the run than last year.

We will also undoubtedly see situations where we play two traditional LBs, shift Foster to play like a 3rd LB at 215 pounds, and sub him with one of our host of quality DB players, depending upon situational need.

Current state: Totally unproven -- with the potential to be strong as this group gains experience.
2020 Recruits: Thompson, who projects at MLB [Wax might also end up at LB, depending on how things shake out]
Trend: Stinks that we are starting over for the second time in two consecutive years, but the raw materials in the pipeline are strong. Adding Jones / Kpogba / Cantin-Arku last year and Thompson this year gives us a young group of studs to build around long-term.


Defensive Back:

Current situation:
What the coaching staff has done with the secondary is truly remarkable. We are absolutely LOADED with depth, talent, speed, athleticism at BOTH corner back and safety.

At CB, Fredrick is one of the top corners nationally. Depth is so good that last year's starter Bradshaw might get bumped to Nickel. Trill Williams and 6-3 Melifonwu are future pros, with NFL physiques / capabilities. Stritzinger had an INT in the bowl game, and looks poised for a bigger season. Depth was so strong, that JUCO transfer [and former virginia tech commit] Johnson didn't even see the field. We also had a strong group in the class of 2019 who will hopefully get a chance to redshirt.

At S, Cisco was a freshman all american at FS, and Foster brings LB size to the SS position. Jonas, Coley, Clarke, and Greenwood supply depth behind this talented group of starters. And I haven't even mentioned Nunn -- one of the gems out of the class of 2019.

Nor have I brought up the return of former starter, Cordy, who could play both slot CB and S interchangeably.

Current state: LOADED!
2020 Recruits: LeBrrosse [CB/S], Bell [CB/S], Hanna , Atkinson
Trend: Legion of boom. This group rivals just about anybody in the country in depth, talent, speed, and versatility. And the pipeline is stocked with quality prospects to keep the talent level high here for years to come.

Secondary is so important in college football, and the coaching staff has done a brilliant job of bringing in difference makers.



Now, let's take a look at offense:


Quarteback:

Current situation:
Inexperienced -- but with high hopes based upon DeVito's strong play against FSU and North Carolina last year.

Eric Dungey ended his four year stranglehold on the QB position on a high note, guiding the team to double digit wins and a bowl victory. But the oft-injured QB also ceded some PT to DeVito, who alternated between looking shaky and looking like the difference making 4-star arm talent that he was reported to be. In the past, we would have rushed a prospect like DeVito onto the field as a true frosh, subjecting him to injury, playing him before he wasn't ready, and risking him lapsing into bad habits behind poor offensive lines. but with Dungey ahead of him, DeVito redshirted, then was able to see the field situationally last year. He had some ups and downs, but also won a pair of important games for us. And he got to head into the entire off-season as the prohibitive starter -- and build upon that as the clear cut #1 starter throughout spring ball and offseason workouts. Now a third year player who knows the system and has PT under his belt, he is perfectly positioned to step into a bigger role.

Walk on Clayton Welch is #2 on the depth chart. Reports suggest that he is similar to Dungey in that he is a strong dual threat QB who moves the chains. Remains to be seen what he can do, but the reports are encouraging about his capabilities. Culpepper has started a game, and is a decent #3. Summers redshirts barring catastrophe, to maximize his value as a long term asset.

Current state: It's DeVito's time to shine -- he's positioned well to ascend, but needs to prove it as a starter.
2020 Recruits: None so far
Trend: It all depends on DeVito -- can he avoid injury? Will he prove to be above average? Is he a better fit for Babers's offense than Dungey was? If those questions get answered positively, then Tommy has a good chance to be a three year starter, affording us time to stock the pipeline with QB talent.

Summers was a quality "get" in the class of 2019. Need to add another one this year to replenish the pipeline. One of the major needs remaining in the class of 2020.


Running Back:

Current situation:
Studs, with tons of competition for PT.

Adams started the bowl game and showed what he could do, scoring a pair of touchdowns. He's our first true breakaway threat in awhile, and has the power to excel as an inside runner, too. Total package.

Moe Neal could be a poor man's Reggie Bush, and is coming off of a year where he rushed for more than 850 yards. Another stud.

Jarveon Howard looks like a grown ass man, and plays like it, too.

Hard to see where snaps are going to come from behind this trio, but Jawhar Jordan looks like a difference maker - and could contribute as a kickoff returner as well. Does he eventually project to slot?

Pierre could be a quality player, but might get squeezed out by depth. Johnson hopefully is able to redshirt.

If I had to guess, I think that with that nucleus, a group of 4-5 will emerge to give us some flexibility / depth. I also think that it is likely that when this group coalesces into a rotation, that we'll be better against the run than last year.

Current state: Totally unproven -- with the potential to be strong as this group gains experience.
2020 Recruits: Tucker, Wax
Trend: Strong, with the raw materials in the pipeline to remain that way for a LONG time.


Wide Receiver:

Current situation:
One of the deepest, most talented positional units on the team. Its hard to believe that heading into last year, we had no proven commodities and were counting on Devin C. Butler to be a bell cow. He quickly got supplanted by a number of players who proved to be more than up to the challenge.

We have WRs in every shape, size, and capability. the core nucleus will likely be jackson, N. Johnson, Harris, and Riley [who is small but emerged as a big time playmaker]. Behind them, we have a talented group that will be competing for PT, including Queely / S. Johnson, Hendrix, Thompson-Bishop, and Jordan.

Don't sleep on Lutz or walk ons like Kevin Johnson, Jr. / James Cherry down the road.

Only questions heading into the season are: will Jackson redshirt or is he too good to keep off the field? Does Jawhar Jordan eventually transition to slot or stay at RB?

Otherwise, this group is LOADED.

Current state: One of the best positional units on the team.
2020 Recruits: None so far
Trend: SU has struck out on several top rated WR prospects in the class of 2020, including Gowdy [yesterday]. Will be interesting to see how the staff rebounds. Despite this, the incumbents plus the strong group we've added the past two years gives us TONS of quality options, and make WR a key strength of the team for several years, whether we add anybody to the class of 2020 or not.


Tight End:

Current situation:
Very inexperienced group. It is unclear how Babers plans to use TEs in his offense, as Pierce was wildly inconsistent and a walking personal foul threat.

Hackett could be very good, but he spent a significant portion of last year injured. If he can bounce back, he could have a big year. Versatile FB / TE / DT Elmore could see time here as either an H-back or as an in-line blocker. Connors is a former walk on. Benson is a speed demon who might redshirt.

Current state: Not sure what we currently have -- lots of question marks here.
2020 Recruits: Mahar, Barron might project here or at safety
Trend: Disconcerting, but trending towards quality. I like Hackett's potential -- a lot. Him being healthy could go a long way toward solidifying this unproven positional unit. Benson looks like he could eventually be a mismatch problem, and Mahar has described himself as a WR -- so the future looks bright.

Unlike many positional units, TE is a spot where Babers and his staff haven't yet fully actualized upgrading the talent. That appears to be changing, if Benson / Mahar pan out down the road.


Offensive Line:

Current situation:
Always tough when you replace two starting OTs. The coaching staff has done a nice job in every class since they came on board adding pieces of the puzzle at OL, redshirting them, and then building depth. With Martin / Conway gone, new OTs will have to emerge.

We have several players with position versatility, such as Servais [C or T?], Heckel [C or G?], Vetterello [T, G, or C?]. We also welcome 5th year transfer [and three year starter] Alexander from South Alabama. He needs to nail down one of the OT spots -- will it be LT or RT?

We return three starters in Servais, Adams, and Heckel [2018]; add Alexander to that mix, and we have four starters in some combination. Where will they play -- TBD. Dakota Davis is a key reserve at G. Pat Davis got injured in spring practice, and will look to supply depth. Qadir White was a 4-star who has shifted inside to guard. Vetterello cracked the two-deep as a true frosh -- he could play at T, G, or C. Tisdale is a JUCO transfer -- how quickly will he pick things up? Red participated in spring ball, and was listed as the starting RT [probably token] at the start of camp.

Ultimately, which player land at the two open OT positions will likely have a trickle down / cascade effect on the where the rest of the players line up. For example, does Servais stay at C, or does he shift out to OT? Does a player like Vetterello seize the LT role? Is Tisdale ready for the two deep, or not? Will a senior like Euerig or a walk on like Chandler provide some platoon depth?

LOVE the impact that Mike Cavanaugh made on this unit last year; needs to have a similar impact in year 2.

Players like Bergeron and Red will hopefully redshirt, but it is not difficult to envision these two as multi-year starting OTs down the road.

Current state: 4 out of 5 starters seem set in stone, but lots of question marks. The performance of this group might determine whether the outcome of the 2020 season is successful or subpar -- no exaggeration.
2020 Recruits: Barclay projects [at 6-7] as an athletic LT, Ilaoa as an OG [if he doesn't shift to DT]
Trend: Needs improvement. To be an elite program with our offensive system, we need to improve the play at OL. In a short period of time, the coaching staff has restocked the pipeline with quality prospects, but we still aren't quite where we need to be. Lots of OT types -- but not a lot of players who project on the interior, especially at C [where the loss of Sampson smarts].


Sorry for writing a book, but that's how I see the status of each positional unit, based both upon the current state players we have, how proven they are, how those groups are performing, and what recruits we have in the pipeline.

Overall, DE, WR, RB, CB, and S are our team strengths.

We have quality materials in the pipeline at LB and OT, and to a lesser extent TE.

And our main areas of need to improve the talent base is at DT, QB, OG, and C.

These four areas are where we need to focus the bulk of our recruiting for the remaining slots in the class of 2020.

Ideally, here's how I would like to see our remaining 7 spots filled:

  • 2 defensive tackles [these could also be bigger DEs a la Slayton, Williams, Munoz, and Dawson with the potential to "grow" into athletic DTs]
  • 1 OG
  • 1 OC
  • 1 QB -- need to land a high quality prospect here, not just a warm body
  • 2 WRs
If additional positions open up -- and they will via attrition, they always do -- then I'd like to see the staff add the best talent available at any position. But at minimum, we need to fill the above slots in the class of 2020 to avoid having roster "holes" / imbalances, or to risk critical depletion of depth at a key positional unit if an injury occurs.

My opinion only, but the class of 2020 is strong, and predicated heavily upon camp offers. That's a great sign. And it is also amazing that an unrated prospect like LaBrosse isn't on the recruiting services' radar, but once they take a look he immediately vaults just below 4 star rating. I would expect several of our recruits to bump up a little once they are rated.

But ultimately, the subjective "value" of this class will be predicated upon whether we land a decent QB, stockpile prospects at DT, add a few interior linemen, and add some dynamic playmakers at WR to a talented, competitive group that we already have.
TL;DR

Are we good or not? ;)



Seriously though, nice post.
 
TL;DR

Are we good or not? ;)



Seriously though, nice post.


Agreed 144% - really outstanding work here.

My only niggle is - I don't think we have "cause for concern" at DE.
The guys who don't 'dedicate themselves to S&C' ;) will still have great builds to be impactful DE's.
Tuazama already looks like an impact player, he was one of the highlights of the Spring game.
(and I think like Bear, and Josh Black, he eventually ends up inside)

IF Richards doesn't end up at LB, he'll likely step right in next year for one of Robinson or Coleman, and we won't skip a beat.

Yes, it's TBD who and how much these guys will contribute, and where, but there's lots of potential options at least.

DT is the greater cause for concern - those guys are hard to find out of HS, and the best ones go to the selector schools.
IF we can't grow our own, I'd imagine the Grad and JUCO x-fer waiver wires will be worked hard this next offseason.
 
I think it’s fair for some to be mildly disappointed so far, but only because there was a bunch of hype about this being a breakout year for recruiting.

That being said, I’m not worried at all. If we can win 10 games with a team half full of Shafer recruits, I’m thinking that means we can probably win 20 games with a team full of Bebe’s kids.
 
Agreed 144% - really outstanding work here.

My only niggle is - I don't think we have "cause for concern" at DE.
The guys who don't 'dedicate themselves to S&C' ;) will still have great builds to be impactful DE's.
Tuazama already looks like an impact player, he was one of the highlights of the Spring game.
(and I think like Bear, and Josh Black, he eventually ends up inside)

IF Richards doesn't end up at LB, he'll likely step right in next year for one of Robinson or Coleman, and we won't skip a beat.

Yes, it's TBD who and how much these guys will contribute, and where, but there's lots of potential options at least.

DT is the greater cause for concern - those guys are hard to find out of HS, and the best ones go to the selector schools.
IF we can't grow our own, I'd imagine the Grad and JUCO x-fer waiver wires will be worked hard this next offseason.
Re: DE -- here's my logic. The "trend" was supposed to be the long term prognosis for the position. Right now, our two best are all conference caliber, but both seniors -- as is one of our two two key reserves [Berry]. The other [Jonathan] is a junior who will be gone after next year.

Sure, players like Morton, Richards, etc. could emerge -- but right now they are unknowns.We don't even know if Richards will end up at DE or LB. If we see a player or two break through and flash behind the primary four, then our long term prognosis would look more promising. But next season, we'll have Jonathan and NO OTHER proven commodities, at least at current writing. Hence "cause for concern."

Subject to change, because I like a lot of the young parts, as well. We just need to see it materialize, otherwise we'll have noone to step into some pretty big shoes.
 
We have been
I've given my constructive analysis about the class and also have replied to some of your concerns about the class.
We are doing a great job of getting kids for our system
Ben Labrosse would be a 4 star easy if he lived in FL.
Steven Mahar was a huge priority for the staff and a great git.
Tucker & Wax will give us depth at RB back in '20 and will carry the load by '22 (if not recruited over).
Bell & Hanna are good kids that a few years in the S&C program will be ready for our next wave of secondary.
Garth Barclay is the perfect size and good prospect for our OL.
Lowery/Lemieux are great pick ups at a position of need and could fill out to be starters or solid rotation guys.
Thompson has a great shot of being our MLB of the future next to the studs from last years class.
llaoa has good size for a high school kid and I have no doubt that our S&C will mold him into a good DLmen for us.
Justin Barron is a solid pick up at ATH and these are the types of kids Dino and company love to have for the offense.
And finally my favorite so far in this class James Williams will continue or new tradition of dominate kickers for years to come.
You are just listing those players who have given us verbals and then typing nice things about them.
 
You are just listing those players who have given us verbals and then typing nice things about them.
Yes I listed the players that gave us verbals and typed my thoughts, sorry they where all nice things
If you keep reading you will see we further discussed the overall feel of the class
 
Am I being too harsh or do you guys share similar concerns about this class?

I also think we could have recruited better in this class at LB. Thompson is a solid 3 star, Barron & Labrosse also may fit here if needed, but I was thinking we could once again pull a 4 star caliber player. We plan on using them early on special teams, will once again be losing 2 seniors that will either start or play a lot, and Mikel Jones or one of the other 2 studs from last class should be proof we will play LBs early, however this was less of a blunt need as last class was so good at the position and more of a wishlist item for the class.
What exactly have you seen or not seen from Welch that has you not sold on him?

Please forward me the video footage, I am dying to see what you see.

We need talented players at every position, that's what good teams do is stockpile talent and as much of it as possible across the board. You don't not take a super talented safety cause you need a DT or a QB, you need them all, especially when you still have 12 slots open in the class.
 
What exactly have you seen or not seen from Welch that has you not sold on him?

Please forward me the video footage, I am dying to see what you see.

We need talented players at every position, that's what good teams do is stockpile talent and as much of it as possible across the board. You don't not take a super talented safety cause you need a DT or a QB, you need them all, especially when you still have 12 slots open in the class.
I’m basing my analysis off all I have: his Hudl footage of his juco time and his time here. Since he has been here he has done next to nothing in terms of on field production and I think that is fairly objective and not an evil thing to say about him... he just hasn’t won playing time to get the chance to produce.

His Hudl shows a QB that is pretty athletic/mobile for his size, but the tape has a number of throws made with poor form (feet not set, wrong front foot, poor arm mechanics) and some of the highlights are actually incompletions which I’ve never seen included in a QBs “highlights”. To each his own, I’m sure you can find positives (specifically his mobility and maybe arm strength). Given that our options on the two deep are essentially to list him or a true freshmen QB who picked us over Fordham and Buffalo (not trying to disparage him he could be good but we can both agree this isn’t ideal) I feel like it’s pretty reasonable to at least have doubt at backup QB (a position that can often outweigh the importance of many other backup positions).

Given that we have some of the best depth we’ve had in recent memory at RB and DB, I don’t think it’s crazy to allocate spots for objectively less deep positions which in this case are QB and DT. I’m not saying don’t take talent and I’m not saying don’t take a talented safety. I am saying I have a problem taking 3 talented safeties if down the line that means we won’t have room in this class to fill those 2 dire need positions. Maybe it won’t come to that because we have a lot of spots left as you mention. Maybe it will or maybe it will come at the expense of another position that lacks depth. All I’m saying is that is my personal opinion on the matter. I don’t think there is any evil in admitting neither Welch nor Summers picked SU over other good offers (Maryland new staff did not have a spot for Summers). Players all the time prove that they can turn themselves from a lower rated player into a stud, so yes that is a flawed way of analyzing it that has been proven wrong, but it is an understandable relative marker of talent value. A 5th year senior QB who was lightly recruited coming out of juco and has never seen the field after juco is different than a player who receives 2-4 stars or even offers from low/middle ranking power 5 schools and different from a QB who has seen some game time at SU and looked good in that game time. Is that a fair assessment to make?


I really did not mean to start such a hostile debate. I wish Mr. Welch all the best and for success in whatever time he sees this year. I suspect this Orange team will win 7-15 games (let me dream of my natty!!!! Lol). With that said regardless he will be on his way out after this year leaving us with 2 scholarship QBs. QB is objectively a massive recruiting need!!! No recruiting class is perfect and I do not pretend to be a college coach much less coach Babers who has proven himself to be a master at analyzing high school talent.
 
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I think as far as DT Tuazama is definitely going to move inside IMO. The guy was what 215 when he signed. Now he's listed at 250. He can beef up and it seems very fast.
 

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