Cleveland Dumps GM Just Before Draft

[UnknownOrange]

Let's not forget they lost to '87 Boston and '88 Detroit. Those teams would've worked all of Bron's early Cavs teams too.

I'm stringing you along to my point


You need other superstars to make it work.

Who cares if Lebron plays for 4 more teams the rest of his career. Is Shaq not one of the best centers ever because he played for 6 teams? Who cares. Win. Nothing else matters.

 

[two3zone]

Detroit had 3 hall of famers, and many very good role players.

I think Orlando had the most talented team of any of them. Not 3 hall of famers...but a tier 1 hall of famer in Shaq, and being real...Penny in the mid 90s was a better player than Pierce or Allen ever were. Throw in Horace Grant, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott...they were loaded, just young.

Come on...

 

[OrangeDW]

Come on...

Penny made back to back first team All NBA's. Pretty sure Pierce and Allen never made first team.

Penny was a top 5-8 player for a few years. Pierce and Allen were top 20ish players for over a decade. They had better careers, but Penny had the better peak. He could do more.

 

[OrangeDW]

I'm stringing you along to my point


You need other superstars to make it work.

Who cares if Lebron plays for 4 more teams the rest of his career. Is Shaq not one of the best centers ever because he played for 6 teams? Who cares. Win. Nothing else matters.

Of course you need other superstars to make it work. Except for Detroit in 04 where they had 4-5 all star caliber guys but no superstar and Dirk in the year Lebron nutted up in the finals, I can't think of a team without at least a second superstar.

We're not holding young Mike losing to dynasty's against him though.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Of course you need other superstars to make it work. Except for Detroit in 04 where they had 4-5 all star caliber guys but no superstar and Dirk in the year Lebron nutted up in the finals, I can't think of a team without at least a second superstar.

We're not holding young Mike losing to dynasty's against him though.

Jeff Van Gundy, fwiw (and I respect Jeff's NBA knowledge), says one of LeBron's greatest career achievements was getting the Cavs to the finals at the age of 22 with a team of stiffs the year he "nutted up in the finals."

 

[OrangeDW]

Jeff Van Gundy, fwiw (and I respect Jeff's NBA knowledge), says one of LeBron's greatest career achievements was getting the Cavs to the finals at the age of 22 with a team of stiffs the year he "nutted up in the finals."

I'm not talking about that year, I'm talking about his first year in Miami. There's really no other way to put it, he didn't come through in the finals.

Getting '07 Cleveland to the finals was a great achievement to be sure. I just find the "he made the finals in year 4 and Jordan went out in the second round in year 4!" stuff to be more than a little dishonest. Both guys didn't play against '88 Detroit in year 4.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Of course you need other superstars to make it work. Except for Detroit in 04 where they had 4-5 all star caliber guys but no superstar and Dirk in the year Lebron nutted up in the finals, I can't think of a team without at least a second superstar.

We're not holding young Mike losing to dynasty's against him though.

Yes. LeBron had a tough 2011 finals.

MJ also took a seaosn a half off in his prime and came back to lose to the magic in 95. LBJ has logged insane minutes the last 7 years.

All in all? Any team, in any era, would take either one. That 'hell no' comment is ridiculous

 

[OrangeDW]

Yes. LeBron had a tough 2011 finals.

MJ also took a seaosn a half off in his prime and came back to lose to the magic in 95. LBJ has logged insane minutes the last 7 years.

All in all? Any team, in any era, would take either one. That 'hell no' comment is ridiculous

Yup.

Who cares? What does one have to do with the other? Rusty MJ losing to Orlando(who was probably better than '11 Dallas) and prime Lebron weirdly fading into the background in the finals are two different things.

I have no idea what you're referring to at the end there.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Yup.

Who cares? What does one have to do with the other? Rusty MJ losing to Orlando(who was probably better than '11 Dallas) and prime Lebron weirdly fading into the background in the finals are two different things.

I have no idea what you're referring to at the end there.

The whole reason you and I are arguing was because I was responding to a nonsense comment that the GSW wouldn't take LBJ on their team next year if they could. (That was the hell no comment)

 

[OrangeDW]

The whole reason you and I are arguing was because I was responding to a nonsense comment that the GSW wouldn't take LBJ on their team next year if they could.

I'm not arguing, I'm talking hoops.

I didn't even see that comment, I was just replying to the things I noticed.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I'm not arguing, I'm talking hoops.

I didn't even see that comment, I was just replying to the things I noticed.

Haha I didn't mean it like we're at each others necks or anything. You're right - MJ's early opponents were great. LeBrons current finals opponents are great. I just think it's a silly thought that Jordan should be praised more because he never created a team off all stars. It was a different NBA but it just so happened the Bulls got lucky and had two Top 50 players of all time on their roster. LBJ didn't start the superteam trend so I have no issue if he plays for Cleveland the rest of his career, or not.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I think maybe my point is lost. I don't actually think Lebron would go to Golden State, I was just wondering how crazy, hilarious, insane it would be.

 

[Knicks411]

This is kind of but not really related, but I'm going to post it here cause why not?

I remember looking at a list of MVP's recently. The list of NBA MVP from 84-90 is as follows (I'm going to include number of wins the team the player was on had, for reference)
84- Bird (62)
85- Bird (63)
86- Bird (67)
87- Magic (65)
88- Jordan (50)
89- Magic (57)
90- Magic (63)

Now, obviously, the idea of Jordan winning an MVP isn't crazy, but doesn't it seem weird that he won one here? This was still magic and birds nba; and they were winning 60 plus games a year and taking MVP's. The Bulls won 50 games and Jordan got the MVP. The Celtics won 57 games, Lakers won 62, and Bird and Magic had Bird and Magic seasons. Just weird

 

[MikeSU02]

This is kind of but not really related, but I'm going to post it here cause why not?

I remember looking at a list of MVP's recently. The list of NBA MVP from 84-90 is as follows (I'm going to include number of wins the team the player was on had, for reference)
84- Bird (62)
85- Bird (63)
86- Bird (67)
87- Magic (65)
88- Jordan (50)
89- Magic (57)
90- Magic (63)

Now, obviously, the idea of Jordan winning an MVP isn't crazy, but doesn't it seem weird that he won one here? This was still magic and birds nba; and they were winning 60 plus games a year and taking MVP's. The Bulls won 50 games and Jordan got the MVP. The Celtics won 57 games, Lakers won 62, and Bird and Magic had Bird and Magic seasons. Just weird

He averaged like 35, 5 and 5 and won DPOY. I'm assuming his shooting percentages were pretty high as well.

 

[Knicks411]

He averaged like 35, 5 and 5 and won DPOY. I'm assuming his shooting percentages were pretty high as well.

Yeah I mean, like I said, he was awesome, he's Jordan! But like, the year before, he averaged 37-5-5. In 89, he averaged 33-8-8. no MVP

the DPOY is a good point though