Coaches on Hot Seat

[Cheriehoop]

So far - Iowa, Indiana, nova, nc st, Virginia in.
Texas and Miami are considered “bubble” teams.

Men's Bracketology: Don't sleep on this year's bubble

The Last Four In and First Four Out groupings feature teams with big wins -- and high potential for March.

www.espn.com

 

[phsyra]

Syracuse has a ton going for it. Plus, if you win at Syracuse you’re basically a god in upstate New York.

I can see Schertz having his pick of programs next year and even though we could make a call to him, it’s possible he’ll pursue a different opportunity. However, I don’t see any way Hodgson passes on the opportunity. He’s a Southern Tier kid that grew up loving basketball and would travel up to coach a Syracuse basketball camps. SU is very likely his dream job,

The God of Snow...I love upstate NY but not everyone does...weather is always a factor...these coaches have wives that dont like snow

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm going phrase the NIL discussion another way. I'm of the opinion that the $'s really don't matter at this point because we are competing against other programs for players in an uncapped market.

We can all sit here and be like WOW 7-9 mil is a ton of money for CNY and that means we should be ranked and be making sweet 16's. Make the tourney yes but I don't think ranked consistently or even being a solid performer in the tourney is in the cards for us where we stand now. To me it appears we will never outspend at least 25 to 30 of the teams in D1 because as soon as they see us creeping up behind them to match what they're paying, they will just throw more chips in the pot to get the top players anyway.

Let's just say we go crazy and are willing to spend 12 or 15 mil on a roster next year on players to get the new coach a leg ups, Duke/UNC/UVA/NCState/Miami will just put up however million more it takes to get the players they want anyway. In 2021 the top hoops NIL deals were around 300K, it's 5 years later and it's 4.2 Mil.

The millions don't matter to them, there's always more. We're in an arms race and don't have the guns right now.

Maybe if we can get some corporate whales and new leaderships says you know what we want to compete with the top 5 in the ACC for money, but from what I hear from the insiders that hasn't been the goal and doesn't appear to be changing from being a 2nd tier ACC team.

Moving the goalposts again to more excuses. None of this matters. We had the players to beat Miami this year if we had good coaching. Our point guard selected us over UNC. UVA was smart and fired their coach. They got their best players from Europe. They hardly broke the bank. There's 3-4 schools you can say brought in better players than us in the conference last year. Duke, UNC, Louisville for sure. Maybe NC State.

 

[Sherman20]

I think we can be pretty delusional. How many first year coaches get their teams into the NCAA’s their first year? Last year major universities like Miami, Fla St, Maryland, Indiana, Utah, Texas, Xavier, Villanova, Auburn, Iowa, NC St, Virginia and W Virginia all hired new coaches. What are the odds that all these programs with new coaches make the NCAA’s in their first year?

7 out of those 13 programs will likely make the NCAAs as first year coaches with their programs. I expect it’ll take a new coach a year or two to make the NCAAs, depending on who we hire. Fans just need to see a foundation being laid and progress.

 

[Sherman20]

By all means correct me with your data.

-$EC 12-15 teams outspending us
-B$G 12-15 teams outspending us
-ACC 6-8 teams outspending us
-BigEast 2-3 teams outspending us

That's 32-40ish teams right there.

Even beyond player NIL, I look at our staff and see a rec league basketball crew.

The staff is the definition of mediocrity (outside of maybe Straughn), I’ll give you that. I just don’t buy those NIL numbers. Even the supposed experts don’t know jack.

 

[Sherman20]

I'm going phrase the NIL discussion another way. I'm of the opinion that the $'s really don't matter at this point because we are competing against other programs for players in an uncapped market.

We can all sit here and be like WOW 7-9 mil is a ton of money for CNY and that means we should be ranked and be making sweet 16's. Make the tourney yes but I don't think ranked consistently or even being a solid performer in the tourney is in the cards for us where we stand now. To me it appears we will never outspend at least 25 to 30 of the teams in D1 because as soon as they see us creeping up behind them to match what they're paying, they will just throw more chips in the pot to get the top players anyway.

Let's just say we go crazy and are willing to spend 12 or 15 mil on a roster next year on players to get the new coach a leg ups, Duke/UNC/UVA/NCState/Miami will just put up however million more it takes to get the players they want anyway. In 2021 the top hoops NIL deals were around 300K, it's 5 years later and it's 4.2 Mil.

The millions don't matter to them, there's always more. We're in an arms race and don't have the guns right now.

Maybe if we can get some corporate whales and new leaderships says you know what we want to compete with the top 5 in the ACC for money, but from what I hear from the insiders that hasn't been the goal and doesn't appear to be changing from being a 2nd tier ACC team.

The current clusterfudge system isn’t going to last forever, probably not even another year or two. It’s untenable, and there will be intervention and guardrails soon enough and a cap on the market. The House settlement was just finalized last spring, after the portal had closed. There will be more changes to come.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Moving the goalposts again to more excuses. None of this matters. We had the players to beat Miami this year if we had good coaching. Our point guard selected us over UNC. UVA was smart and fired their coach. They got their best players from Europe. They hardly broke the bank. There's 3-4 schools you can say brought in better players than us in the conference last year. Duke, UNC, Louisville for sure. Maybe NC State.

Who's moving goalposts? You just cherrypicked UVA #'s. It's straight up $'s in a pro league. Odom is at 3.25 mil a year that's almost double what we are paying our coaches. Give Jay Alter a listed on espn sports radio and listen to what he said about our NIL and UVA's, it's millions apart.

No one is saying Autry shouldn't go. I'm saying we are in the 2nd tier and are not moving out of that any time soon from what I'm hearing. 2nd tier teams do not consistently make sweet 16's or get ranked or win natty's. The 1st tier of NIL spenders is somewhere around 20ish teams right now. I don't want it to be that way but burying your head in the sand and saying do more with less isn't going to get us back to the top of the league...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Who's moving goalposts? You just cherrypicked UVA #'s. It's straight up $'s in a pro league. Odom is at 3.25 mil a year that's almost double what we are paying our coaches. Give Jay Alter a listed on espn sports radio and listen to what he said about our NIL and UVA's, it's millions apart.

No one is saying Autry shouldn't go. I'm saying we are in the 2nd tier and are not moving out of that any time soon from what I'm hearing. 2nd tier teams do not consistently make sweet 16's or get ranked or win natty's. The 1st tier of NIL spenders is somewhere around 20ish teams right now. I don't want it to be that way but burying your head in the sand and saying do more with less isn't going to get us back to the top of the league...

We would have been morons to pay Red 3.25 million with zero experience. That’s about what JB would pay if he was still coaching. I don’t listen to any of the local shows anymore. I learned a long time ago they all are pushing one agenda. There’s other people in the know who give better information than anyone on orangenation. And even if UVA is spending that much there’s zero comparison to the players we brought it. Everyone mentioned this at the start of the season we had pretend talent and now that we suck it is reverting to last years excuse for a few or you. You’re falling right into that trap.

 

[RedtheGOB]

We would have been morons to pay Red 3.25 million with zero experience. That’s about what JB would pay if he was still coaching. I don’t listen to any of the local shows anymore. I learned a long time ago they all are pushing one agenda. There’s other people in the know who give better information than anyone on orangenation. And even if UVA is spending that much there’s zero comparison to the players we brought it. Everyone mentioned this at the start of the season we had pretend talent and now that we suck it is reverting to last years excuse for a few or you. You’re falling right into that trap.

Ok so let’s play it out then. Will we pay our next hoops coach 3.25 million with a similar contract as Odom and will that new coach be given the same nil as Virginia to work with? Let’s get on the record. I say no, what do you say?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ok so let’s play it out then. Will we pay our next hoops coach 3.25 million with a similar contract as Odom and will that new coach be given the same nil as Virginia to work with? Let’s get on the record. I say no, what do you say?

I don’t think we have to pay a coach that much. Pat Kelsey gets a little over 2 million from Louisville. I think we would be in that range. All in on revenue sharing and NIL I think we are closer to UVA than people think or we wouldn’t have the players we have. Again, NO ONE said this was a problem in the SUMMER.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I don’t think we have to pay a coach that much. Pat Kelsey gets a little over 2 million from Louisville. I think we would be in that range. All in on revenue sharing and NIL I think we are closer to UVA than people think or we wouldn’t have the players we have. Again, NO ONE said this was a problem in the SUMMER.

Who cares about last year. We’re cleaning house in a month. I want to know if we are on par with UVA or on par with the muddled middle of the ACC when we start buying coaches and players.

Im hearing a vibes based response but no answer.

*Pat Kelsey is at 3.3 mil after a homerun his first year.

 

[RF2044]

We had about 2,000 people at the last game. We're sooooo far away from 35k that anyone considering this job is likely not even considering that as a possibility. I think the damage of letting Boeheim coach 5+ years past his expiration date + forcing a continuity hire is much more significant than the average CNY fans thinks.

Agreed.

Everyone should read that last sentence twice. The consequence of that blunder is significant damage to the brand, and a program in steeper decline.

Which makes it even MORE critical thag we get this hire right.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Who cares about last year. We’re cleaning house in a month. I want to know if we are on par with UVA or on par with the muddled middle of the ACC when we start buying coaches and players.

Im hearing a vibes based response but no answer.

*Pat Kelsey is at 3.3 mil after a homerun his first year.

Why on earth would you hire a coach at a salary of a certain number if you don’t have to? It’s moronic. Louisville HIRED Kelsey at a million less than what he’s at now. It’s probably going to be around what we hire said coach at. Is that a problem?

 

[kingtidge]

BH would indeed kill for this job. He has been sort of lobbying for it for two years. Having said that, he is in the minority of guys out there that are clamoring for it.

I actually hope you are right as I think Hodg would be a solid hire... and I think also Schertz and Skinn are going to have more lucrative offers from programs with superior NIL resources, and are likely to follow that money.

We could certainly do a lot worse (and we may.)

I also think many here are overestimating our desirability as a destination program for new HC candidates. In this new era, it's about salary/+assistants and REALLY about NIL. Good coaches know they have to have adequate NIL to keep up with the competition and 100% KNOW that a lack of NIL will limit their success. It's nice to think and hope we are that type of program now... I fear the balance sheet won't show that to be true, howevs, and that we are a middling P4 vacancy (at best).

I guess the real question is will Hodgson take the job if he also has better offers elsewhere, because he REALLY wants the Cuse job more than others with more salary and NIL?

 

[5OutFred]

I guess the real question is will Hodgson take the job if he also has better offers elsewhere, because he REALLY wants the Cuse job more than others with more salary and NIL?

The weird thing about this whole dilemma is, realistically, Hodgson won't get a better offer than us. And, realistically, we won't get a (much) better candidate than him.

Feels like the answer is right in front of us.

 

[RF2044]

The weird thing about this whole dilemma is, realistically, Hodgson won't get a better offer than us. And, realistically, we won't get a (much) better candidate than him.

Feels like the answer is right in front of us.

I kind of agree. I wasn't super-high on Hodgson, but now I'm thinking that stylistically, he might be exactly what we need to shake this program out of the doldrums.

Whether he gets us back to the pinnacle or not, I'm convinced he can help get us back on track over the next 5 years -- which would then position us better IF [I'm not saying we would] we want to try to move on.

 

[kingtidge]

The weird thing about this whole dilemma is, realistically, Hodgson won't get a better offer than us. And, realistically, we won't get a (much) better candidate than him.

Feels like the answer is right in front of us.

Hope you are right.. My only worry is a middling SEC or big state school comes knocking to him with NIL that dwarfs ours to the levels that he simply can't say no...

Assuming he won't get a better offer could be a flawed perspective. You know his agent will be trying to get a bidding war going for sure (whether legit or manufactured.)

Also, didn't USF bump up his buyout pre-season this year?? Anyone know how much that buyout was increased to?

 

[elimunelson]

The God of Snow...I love upstate NY but not everyone does...weather is always a factor...these coaches have wives that dont like snow

Storrs ct is a strip mall among highways

Amherst when Calipari was there was the most important college basketball spot

Coaches make geography .

 

[5OutFred]

And not for nothing, Hodgson personally loving the program before even taking the job lessens concerns that if he were to have massive success, it would be much harder for him to leave than it would be for say a Skinn.

 

[5OutFred]

Assuming he won't get a better offer could be a flawed perspective. You know his agent will be trying to get a bidding war going for sure (whether legit or manufactured.)

Yeah, of course, but it's not a coincidence that there's only been one job he's been connected to and personally angling for (and now publicly through media promotion) for years

 

[kingtidge]

Yeah, of course, but it's not a coincidence that there's only been one job he's been connected to and personally angling for (and now publicly through media promotion) for years

True, but we're in the typical "dead-air" timeframe for these coaches, with the season still in progress (agent backchannelling likely going on, but everyone tight-lipped right now...)

Real rumors won't likely start until the season ends...

 

[RedtheGOB]

Why on earth would you hire a coach at a salary of a certain number if you don’t have to? It’s moronic. Louisville HIRED Kelsey at a million less than what he’s at now. It’s probably going to be around what we hire said coach at. Is that a problem?

Skipped the first part of my question yet again. I think you don’t want to admit we are not on the same level as UVA $’s wise. I don’t think we are or will be this coming year.

All I’m asking is if you think we will be spending the same as UVA on staff and players this offseason?

 

[ImperialOrange]

I largely checked out on basketball awhile ago as a football first fan and ACC matchups never really interested me but I'd love to be drawn back in.

Syracuse as a reclamation project right now has to be appealing. The bar is set so low and the upside of success here is about as high as it gets. Coaches have ego's and Syracuse being nationally relevant again would be a big notch in the belt. Also rebuilding a basketball team isn't the same monumental task as football. You can make the dance with a few exceptional players and a bunch of role players that buy in.

Establish an identity (we currently have none) and get players to fit roles in said system. No more just rolling the ball out and playing pick up basketball in half court sets.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Feels like the answer is right in front of us.

Well... until somebody shares something that somebody shared that somebody shared about him that hurts your feelings.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Skipped the first part of my question yet again. I think you don’t want to admit we are not on the same level as UVA $’s wise. I don’t think we are or will be this coming year.

All I’m asking is if you think we will be spending the same as UVA on staff and players this offseason?

It’s very obvious I said no. My bigger complaint is you comparing year one of a rebuild to year two.