Coaches

[SWC75]

There have been a lot of familiar coaching names in the news lately. Turner Gil got fired, as Mike Locksley did before him. Todd Graham jumped ship as Lane Kiffin did before him. All were mentioned at one time as potential head coaches for Syracuse. So was Skip Holtz who has had his problems at South Florida.

Locksley was a candidate because he was a "super recruiter". But he couldn't recruit enough good players to New Mexico. Turner Gil had supposedly "turned around" Buffalo because he went 8-6 when they hadn't been any good for years. He "turned around" Kansas, who had been very good under Mark Mangino but slid to 2-10 before he was fired. Lane Kiffin when to Tennessee for one year before jumping to USC and Todd Graham spent a year at Pitt before moving on with a text message to Arizona State. I recall hearing that Turner Gil was only considering Syracuse as Plan B in case he didn't get the Auburn job. He didn't but the SU job was filled so he wound up in Kansas, (but not anymore, Toto). Skip Holtz supposedly just wanted to know how much we were going to pay him. South Florida lost 7 of their last 8 this year.

I don't know if Doug Marrone is "the guy" but we know he'll stay here until he gets the job done or fails to do so. He's not going to use us as a stepping stone elsewhere. Even with the invite to the ACC, this isn't a plum job, not with the sparse crowds, the bad weather, the mediocre high school football in the state and all the losing seasons we've had over the last decade. We are unlikely to attract a "big name coach" or one ruled by his personal ambitions. If we do, we'll either be a stepping stone for a coach trying to rise in the profession or a trampoline for a coach trying to get back up to where he feels he belongs - unless we have someone who is truly committed to make our program a success.

Doug may not be the answer for us but we need to give him every chance to succeed. I don't want to take our chances with a Kiffin, a Graham, a Holtz, a Gil or a Locksley. That wouldn't give us much of a chance at all.

 

[BORZAK]

Well said, Thanks HCDM

 

[SoBristol]

Of course, Doug gets every chance to succeed -- he got the team to a bowl game in year 2; he is making incremental progress with recruiting; he has done well in most of his decisions about his staff (particularly Shafer).
I would like to see vast improvement with special teams, on-the-field discipline, and smart play. We will see what Doug comes up with during his off-season "quality review." We will also see if he finishes strong with his 2012 class and carries over into his summer recruiting. Needs to start landing at least a few higher ranking recruits in head to head competition with our rivals.
I agree that SU needed to bring in a steady, loyal guy with Eastern recruiting roots or at least knowledge of our recruiting base. The Kifflin and Graham examples don't prove much to me; these are odd cases -- and SU was not likely to land someone like that (a coach already hot enough to be courted by big time schools). Turner Gill might well have been successful at SU, working the same recruiting territory that he did for Buffalo -- the challenge at Kansas and the expectations are simply different. As for Holtz, his collapse in the second half of the season isn't much different or worse than what we saw -- except he helped Doug go zero for November.

 

[SaintTristan]

I don't know if Doug Marrone is "the guy" but we know he'll stay here until he gets the job done or fails to do so. He's not going to use us as a stepping stone elsewhere...We are unlikely to attract a "big name coach" or one ruled by his personal ambitions. If we do, we'll either be a stepping stone for a coach trying to rise in the profession or a trampoline for a coach trying to get back up to where he feels he belongs - unless we have someone who is truly committed to make our program a success...Doug may not be the answer for us but we need to give him every chance to succeed. I don't want to take our chances with a Kiffin, a Graham, a Holtz, a Gil or a Locksley. That wouldn't give us much of a chance at all.

This is a horrible post. First, DM is going to stay here because no one else will hire him. You think this board is comprised of the only people who see that he cant recruit or manage a game or run a program? Outside of this community, most people think that stuff is pretty important. So while DM is busy with his third major reshuffling of the coaching staff everyone else in college football is busy ignoring him because he is irrelevant. And he is working to make sure that SU stays irrelevant.

Second, the single biggest challenge here at SU is going to be that initial thrust into relevance. Once that happens maintaining is much easier. We are here in yr three under Dougie and we were last place in the BE, got crushed by UCONN and Rutgers, our regional rivals, and went 2-6 against BCS competition. This absolutely sucks. it doesnt get any worse than this. Doug cant build this program. So it would be wonderful to get some guy who uses this place as a stepping stone because if he leaves that means that he got us to 9-3 and recruited well, and the next guy who comes in will be able to capitalize on that momentum.

Horrible post. Typically at this point I would explain to you that there is an edit button and you should try again. But your post is so bad that I dont even think you can edit it. It is like a car that is so damaged in an accident it has to be scrapped - I think insurance companies call it a "total loss."

Thats what your post is - a "total loss"

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

I didn't see SWC say one thing in his post that was incorrect, yet your flamer response had two items in one paragraph. Things could certainly be A LOT worse, and any coaches that could give us a 9-3 record on the spot is NOT coming here right now.

 

[SaintTristan]

I didn't see SWC say one thing in his post that was incorrect, yet your flamer response had two items in one paragraph. Things could certainly be A LOT worse, and any coaches that could give us a 9-3 record on the spot is NOT coming here right now.

I didnt say on the spot. Keep it honest.

Second, no coach in the planet can get us to 9-3 on the spot because of the hole that marrone is helping to build.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

I didnt say on the spot. Keep it honest.

Second, no coach on the planet can get us to 9-3 on the spot because of the hole that marrone is helping to build.

Ah... so there it is... the grand mystery coach gets time to succeed, but Marrone doesn't. I don't think anyone is happy with all the moves Marrone has made, and I can understand disappointment... but being a douche just for the sake of doing so, when a noted level-headed poster just adds a little bit of reality to the situation, terminates the credibility of whatever opinion you may have.

As far as your "hole" opinion, Dougie isn't digging it downward, he's just not tunneling out as quickly as we would like. After last year, I thought the program was on its way back to where it would have been, had P been canned a couple years earlier in his tenure. Unfortunately, we stepped back, IT HAPPENS. Now, I believe we are back to where we would have been if Marrone had gotten the gig had Greg not been given the reigns. It's sad... but progress has been made.

 

[SaintTristan]

Ah... so there it is... the grand mystery coach gets time to succeed, but Marrone doesn't. I don't think anyone is happy with all the moves Marrone has made, and I can understand disappointment... but being a douche just for the sake of doing so, when a noted level-headed poster just adds a little bit of reality to the situation, terminates the credibility of whatever opinion you may have.

There is no easy way to say this so I am just going to be straightforward and honest: you lack the reasoning to converse with me. This is not a personal insult so please don't take it as such. One should not be insulted for weaknesses that they cant control.

Marrone had time to show improvement. he failed. I would give the next coach three years as well to demonstrate improvement. if in yr three he regressed to (a) last place in the BE, (b) getting beaten by our regional rivals (Rutgers and UCONN - not exaclt Florida and FSU), and (c) 2-6 against the BCS, I would fire that guy too.

A ed wombat could coach us to last place in the worst conference in the BCS.

Noted? There is no poster more noted than me, sporto.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

There is no easy way to say this so I am just going to be straightforward and honest: you lack the reasoning to converse with me. This is not a personal insult so please don't take it as such. One should not be insulted for weaknesses that they cant control.

Marrone had time to show improvement. he failed. I would give the next coach three years as well to demonstrate improvement. if in yr three he regressed to (a) last place in the BE, (b) getting beaten by our regional rivals (Rutgers and UCONN - not exaclt Florida and FSU), and (c) 2-6 against the BCS, I would fire that guy too.

A ed wombat could coach us to last place in the worst conference in the BCS.

Noted? There is no poster more noted than me, sporto.

Is reasoning what you call it when you babble like a hysterical fool and then try and cover it up by acting like an elitist pile of penguin-? Cause if so... yeah, you are good.

Marrone had this team playing better than we expected 2 out of 3 years, and even in the down year we still looked better than we had for a few years prior to him getting here. That's improvement, and while I am sure you will be rooting against him next year, a bounce back means three out of four years the team restored some dignity. Which is all we could realistically hope for back before he was hired, unless we were willing to go all out SEC cheating, or obtain a 20 million donation by yourself.

 

[Orangeyes]

SWC: "I recall hearing that Turner Gil was only considering Syracuse as Plan B in case he didn't get the Auburn job."

That was probably true, Gil was given a chance for a final interview, it was between he & Doug. A call from TGD at 11 PM on the Thursday night before the Friday that Marrone was hired was met by, "Isn't it a bit late to be calling?" That statement sealed the deal.

SWC: "Skip Holtz supposedly just wanted to know how much we were going to pay him."

The truth is Skip was very interested in the SU job, it was his wife who kiboshed the deal when she said she didn't like the weather here.

ST: "We are here in yr three under Dougie and we were last place in the BE, got crushed by UCONN and Rutgers, our regional rivals"

Our feelings may have been crushed by the double overtime loss to Rutgers but 19-16 is hardly crushed. SU dominated most of that game but failed to cash in on several golden opportunities.

UConn beat us 28-21 again not a crush. You must be thinking of November 20, 2010 when the Huskies throttled us 23-6 and in Rutgers case it was over three years ago under Greg Robinson when they last crushed us, that was by a score of 35-17.

We crushed Rutgers 31-13 two years ago and squeaked out a road win last year 13-10

ST: "This is a horrible post" "Horrible post. Typically at this point I would explain to you that there is an edit button and you should try again. But your post is so bad that I dont even think you can edit it. It is like a car that is so damaged in an accident it has to be scrapped - I think insurance companies call it a "total loss.""Thats what your post is - a "total loss"

Why the vitriol against one of the best posters on this board, did you have some bad wine at 1 AM? Remember CTO's forum guideline, "You can disagree without being disagreeable."

The only explanation for your poor manners must be the Night Train you had last night! Watch out for the return trip, they say it's pretty nasty

 

[RoysRunts]

Very Offen on this Board I hear of these Great Recruiters and Big name Coach's SU should hire, Where are they? If they are so great aren't they already employed?

 

[dasher]

We got crushed by UConn and Rutgers? I must have watched a different game. We lost to rutgers in OT. It was a game we controlled. The UConn game was tied with about 6 minutes to play and really came down to who recovered a uconn fumble at mid field. That isn't getting crushed.

 

[kcsu]

I have been very critical of Doug but as i have posted if provided the choice of having to give and extension at this point or letting Doug go at this point i would give him an extension. No one can argue that Doug took over one of the worst programs in college football and has made significant progress. No one can argue that this year was anything but a total train wreck. The jury is still out. My point which has been made to the point of driving posters nuts and to me apologizing for being a broken record is simple. Doug hasnt shown enough to date to deserve an extension. If he was bringing in good recruits i could possibly see the argument that if we dont do so he will be a lame duck recruiter. In reality that doesnt fly because if we have another horrible year next year extension or no extension he isnt going to have a good class. So i stand by my post. Lets see how the rubber match plays out. Doug is and 1-1 in my book with the first year not counting. If he gets off to a good start. Extension. If not play the year out and see how he finishes. Any less than a very very strong finished 5-7 and im talking winning 4 out of the last 5 and he is fired. 6-6 or better he gets another two years.

 

[VaSaltine]

Well said, Thanks HCDM

VERY well said. That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought about. There is a lot to be said for stability and I've resigned myself to the fact that we are not going to be competing for national championships. The coaching and resources will never be there. I'm very happy with perennial 8+ win seasons.

 

[GHLF]

Certain posters on this board who simply spew nonsense. They have personal agendas against marrone for whatever reason. Remember his first obligation is to the team and the University, he has not pleased all ok, however he is trying and his disagrements have not been personal, just professional. He loves this team and University. We need to take our collective strength and get behind the team and support them. It is a work in progress, negativity hinders. I read some of these posts and say they must be students or something, potential personal bias because of a slant. Not to be disrespectful the team does not need this nor another turnover in head coach. We must continue to look at the big picture. Anyone who has looked at this team over the past 3 years knows there has been improvement. This past year, very tough, I just hope in an effort to make his players know he cared about them individually he did not lax in the integrity of allowable personal conduct. This could be viewed as a double standard and raise questions about the true reasons we were successful in year 1 and 2, despite records, we were competitive. Remember the Penn State game, not the score.

Losing for many years has eroded the fan base, however not the true fan base, lets get behind our team and make it one of the most exciting places to play again, go kirby dar dar. We need you fans. Lastly lets remember that we are dealing with 18-23 year old kids. Have fun and study hard. Go SU

 

[Cuseregular]

spot on Steve. He's our guy for the next two years and here's hoping he matures like Fab Melo going forward himself with his coaching. Deserved of the full five years min. no matter (barring a complete collapse next year). That said for God's sake he needs to get one of the more dynamic QB's in there next year. I don't care if he throws 20 ints. as losing by non production or this way is still losing. And I need to work out the frustration I have re Dan Conley being canned too. That said...

Good post. Goes without saying for you but don't let the loser ignoramus from NYC get under your skin. Like all bullies you punch them in the nose (metaphorically speaking in this case )and they'll go scurrying. this squirrel is no different.

 

[SaintTristan]

Very Offen on this Board I hear of these Great Recruiters and Big name Coach's SU should hire, Where are they? If they are so great aren't they already employed?

again, seriously? its not against the rules to poach an employed head coach. is it?

 

[Aweart23]

again, seriously? its not against the rules to poach an employed head coach. is it?

Haven't seen you around much since B. Triche went off for 20 against Florida...Where have you been hiding?

 

[RMH44]

again, seriously? its not against the rules to poach an employed head coach. is it?

Tristan...you need to stick with topics you truely understand...thus, go back to to off topic board and kick some ass. Posting your drivel here compromises your credibility elsewhwere.

 

[qdawgg]

again, seriously? its not against the rules to poach an employed head coach. is it?

I always thought that you were some sort of business person or at least had some basic business sense - I guess you just play that guy on this board. I'm a little surprised that this has to be explained to you and a little surprised that I'm doing it, I think this says more about you then me though.

Anyway let's get to it. In order to poach a "better" person for a position you need to have something to offer that is viewed by that person as "better" then what they have now. We don't.

 

[chakka3421]

This is a horrible post. First, DM is going to stay here because no one else will hire him. You think this board is comprised of the only people who see that he cant recruit or manage a game or run a program? Outside of this community, most people think that stuff is pretty important. So while DM is busy with his third major reshuffling of the coaching staff everyone else in college football is busy ignoring him because he is irrelevant. And he is working to make sure that SU stays irrelevant.

Second, the single biggest challenge here at SU is going to be that initial thrust into relevance. Once that happens maintaining is much easier. We are here in yr three under Dougie and we were last place in the BE, got crushed by UCONN and Rutgers, our regional rivals, and went 2-6 against BCS competition. This absolutely sucks. it doesnt get any worse than this. Doug cant build this program. So it would be wonderful to get some guy who uses this place as a stepping stone because if he leaves that means that he got us to 9-3 and recruited well, and the next guy who comes in will be able to capitalize on that momentum.

Horrible post. Typically at this point I would explain to you that there is an edit button and you should try again. But your post is so bad that I dont even think you can edit it. It is like a car that is so damaged in an accident it has to be scrapped - I think insurance companies call it a "total loss."

Thats what your post is - a "total loss"

Anger Management Issues Here!

 

[SaintTristan]

I always thought that you were some sort of business person or at least had some basic business sense - I guess you just play that guy on this board. I'm a little surprised that this has to be explained to you and a little surprised that I'm doing it, I think this says more about you then me though.

Anyway let's get to it. In order to poach a "better" person for a position you need to have something to offer that is viewed by that person as "better" then what we have now. We don't.

This was a really good attempt to be cute. But again this is the type of post that makes me wonder whats in the water in syracuse. Forget about the fine stuff. ignore the crap economy. forget about the rampant obesity. the real issue in upstate NY is the icomplete absence of critical reasoning skills. perhaps its mercury or something in the water?

for the purpose of this post I am ignoring that your sentence structure makes no sense and I am going to assume that you meant to post a complete thought. Offer something that is better?

All you have to do is offer them more money. For some reason you kids think that football coaches don't care about $. they care as much as the next guy. we have ACC money coming. take the gap between ACC $ and BE money and buy yourself a football program by buying yourself a real coach.

The massage therapist makes a great point when he says "Here's hoping [Marrone] matures" - a D1 football school is a place for on the job training? Frightening.

but i also hope marrone matures...I hope he matures enough to admit he is not cut out for this.

He is going to make one heck of an assistant AD, though.

 

[SWC75]

spot on Steve. He's our guy for the next two years and here's hoping he matures like Fab Melo going forward himself with his coaching. Deserved of the full five years min. no matter (barring a complete collapse next year). That said for God's sake he needs to get one of the more dynamic QB's in there next year. I don't care if he throws 20 ints. as losing by non production or this way is still losing. And I need to work out the frustration I have re Dan Conley being canned too. That said...

Good post. Goes without saying for you but don't let the loser ignoramus from NYC get under your skin. Like all bullies you punch them in the nose (metaphorically speaking in this case )and they'll go scurrying. this squirrel is no different.

Stan's problem is that he wanted Lane Kiffin, who wasn't coming here and would have been here for a year if he did come, which would have gotten us nowhere. He didn't get what he wanted so he trashes the guy we got and anybody who tolerates him. That's just Stan. We're used to it.

 

[SWC75]

VERY well said. That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought about. There is a lot to be said for stability and I've resigned myself to the fact that we are not going to be competing for national championships. The coaching and resources will never be there. I'm very happy with perennial 8+ win seasons.

Obviously perennial 8+ win seasons would be a marked improvement over what we've had for a decade. But it would also be similar to what we got tired of under Coach P. I hoped for more then and I would hope for more eventually under HCDM. But we'll never get there if we panic now and don't give him- or any successor- the chance to suceed. Or if we bring in a successor who doesn't really care about the long-term success of the program, just aobut his own career. That's my real point.

 

[SaintTristan]

Stan's problem is that he wanted Lane Kiffin, who wasn't coming here and would have been here for a year if he did come, which would have gotten us nowhere. He didn't get what he wanted so he trashes the guy we got and anybody who tolerates him. That's just Stan. We're used to it.

Well,to be clear I knew Kiffin would never come to SU. he is an elite coach and I dont think we can land someone at that level. Kiffin is kicking arse at USC (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-21/lane-kiffin-in-la-a-star-is-reborn). I said we needed someone like him. and we do.

The rest of your post is wrong. There were plenty of guys that were bantered about that I was neutral or positive on. But from the beginning I said marrone would be a flop and that he was basically one of the worst hires of the past decade in any college sport.

You and some of the other munchkins on this board exclaim the virtues of "stability." Stability means "continuance without change; permanence." And I agree that stability is great - but only when the "permanence" means permanently good. Marrone offers stability - he guarantees that we will be permanently not good.

I dont fault you for being wrong, SWC. You see JB and the little mouse in your brain starts running on the wheel and you think, hire alum = 30+ yrs of excellence. but JB is one in a trillion.

[by the way, I guess when you talk about stability it doesnt include assistant coaches? I wonder if we should hire someone to help marrone with his assistant coach hiring?]