Coleman...

[TBCuse11]

Nicely done. That is probably more complicated than rebounds per minute although he most likely dominates there as well.

The comical nature of using this stat to prove Coleman is a better rebounder is not really worth a reply, but i will give a brief one. Coleman plays against crap teams, in mop-up time, and in the first 5 minutes of a game. I thought there was some logic in the post but come on man. If Coleman played actual minutes (which he doesnt because he is terrible), then his numbers would be way way lower. He doesnt have to rebound against men... its D3 talent and backups.

Surely even the biggest DC2 backer can see this.

..Charlie Loeb has a better completion percentage than Hunt or Allen, so he must be a better qb. Same crazy argument.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Ok, everyone say this together: "Big men often take time to develop."

33 games in your ready to pull the plug on a former McDonalds AA center because he's not playing well? Yikes. (And I only count DC as having played in 27 college games so far.) Glad JB & staff have more patience & long-term vision.

"Big men often take time to develop." Let's look at some recent examples, shall we:

I remember similar critism of Fab Melo getting every start his Frosh year, even though he would seemingly pick up 5 fouls in 3 mins of play.

Fab's first year stats (2010-11): 33 games played, 9.9 mins/per, 2.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 607% FG, 360% FT

Thankfully JB & staff realized Fab had a ton of talent & just needed more experience.

Fab's second year stats (2011-12): 30 games, 25.4 mins/per, 7.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.9 bpg, 566% FG, 633% FT

How about Rick Jackson after 35 games played you ask? Nothing to write home about:

Rick Jackson first year stats (2007-08): 35 games played, 12.9 min/per, 3.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 526% FG, 528% FT

But those early games paid off, especially in that fantastic Senior year:

Rick Jackson's Soph - Senior seasons:

2008-09: 38 games, 22.1 mins/per, 8.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 623% FG, 481% FT
2009-10: 35 games, 26.3 mins/per, 9.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 591% FG, 500% FT
2010-11: 35 games, 35.6 mins/per, 13.1 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 588% FG, 533% FT

For comparison, DC's stats his first year (2012-13): 24 games played, 12.7 mins/per, 4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 438% FG, 462% FT
So far second year (2013-14): 3 games, 15.0 mins/per, 4.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 444% FG, 308% FT

"Big men often take time to develop." - We have to be patient with talented big men, because the payoff can be huge.

Fab's impact in 2011-12 was absurd - Big East Def POY & even more than stats, his presence in the middle of the zone on Def & offense changed the way teams played us. And Rick Jackson was a grown-ass man in 2010-11 - one of the best improvements I've seen in a player over course of their SU career.

This^^^
Just change the names and at any one time, this thread pops up about some player on the squad...be it big men, guards, or wings.

 

[TBCuse11]

Agree with everything but I still see raks potential at the four where he will go around and hopefully one day shoot over people better.Hes much better getting around his man then Rick Jackson and his 13 ppg ever could, imo even better then warrick, or Fab. He has a explosive pivot and dribble, he still cant go right with it well but going left lookout. That is more of a pf's skill. If he had a true hook he could put up 15-18 ppg this year with his conditioning. He could use some work on receiving the ball while sealing off he has a tougher time with that then dajuan.

I am in 100% agreement with you on Rak... but he doesnt have more moves than Warrick did. Hak was the matrix man.

 

[TBCuse11]

Coleman is an elite rebounder, and that is the area where Syracuse has been weakest over the past few seasons.

There are always going to be at least 3 guys on the court who can score, there is room for a role player who brings something else of value to the table. And, while he is providing that value, he is, as Sgt. points out, slowly developing his offensive game.

Henny & Coke already provided the total rebound percentage; let's break it down even more. Here are the 7 guys who are most likely to be in the Center/Forward rotations when conference play begins

Sigh. So many flaws in this. not worth it anymore. i guess you dont watch the games. Coleman does not move from the paint. Obviously he will get more rebounds than the guys who are actually rotating and playing defense lol. Your lack of ability to grasp this kills me. We all have opinion, no one is right or wrong... but its pretty clear that Coleman will get more boards than Rak or Keita because they rotate our to the wing like they are supposed to to CONTEST shots, while Coleman sits in the middle like he is glued to the floor. This is another reason why teams get open looks and a good start against us.

 

[TBCuse11]

and this whole "Coleman is slowly developing his game" nonsense. Based on what? Kid looks worse than last year.

 

[orangefan13]

yeah rak may have a more explosive first step and defenetly more strength to get by them though. Warrick usually went with a longer first step instead of a explosive one.

 

[moqui]

Sigh. So many flaws in this. not worth it anymore. i guess you dont watch the games. Coleman does not move from the paint. Obviously he will get more rebounds than the guys who are actually rotating and playing defense lol. Your lack of ability to grasp this kills me. We all have opinion, no one is right or wrong... but its pretty clear that Coleman will get more boards than Rak or Keita because they rotate our to the wing like they are supposed to to CONTEST shots, while Coleman sits in the middle like he is glued to the floor. This is another reason why teams get open looks and a good start against us.

why, it's almost as if some crazy coach had assigned different roles for different personnel and different skill sets. what kind of a lunatic would ever do that? he'll obviously be out of a job soon.

 

[jordoo]

The comical nature of using this stat to prove Coleman is a better rebounder is not really worth a reply, but i will give a brief one. Coleman plays against crap teams, in mop-up time, and in the first 5 minutes of a game. I thought there was some logic in the post but come on man. If Coleman played actual minutes (which he doesnt because he is terrible), then his numbers would be way way lower. He doesnt have to rebound against men... its D3 talent and backups.

Surely even the biggest DC2 backer can see this.

..Charlie Loeb has a better completion percentage than Hunt or Allen, so he must be a better qb. Same crazy argument.

So how come Rak & Baye aren't killing it on the boards early in the season the way DC2 does. You really do not feel that DC2 is a very good rebounder? I find it hard to understand how anyone could feel that way. Is rebounding that different in the first 5min of halves as it is in the rest of the games? I'm glad you found some logic in my post, I struggle to do the same with yours as it comes across more like ranting because the stat's show that your opinion on his rebounding compared to our other centers is most likely wrong.

 

[jordoo]

Agree with everything but I still see raks potential at the four where he will go around and hopefully one day shoot over people better.Hes much better getting around his man then Rick Jackson and his 13 ppg ever could, imo even better then warrick, or Fab. He has a explosive pivot and dribble, he still cant go right with it well but going left lookout. That is more of a pf's skill. If he had a true hook he could put up 15-18 ppg this year with his conditioning. He could use some work on receiving the ball while sealing off he has a tougher time with that then dajuan.

I think all our bigs should learn a hook shot. Rak has potential and has shown some skills that look to have the makings of pretty good offensive PF. He just never seems to look for shots unless he is right next to the basket. So its pretty hard to anylize it for me.

 

[jordoo]

Sigh. So many flaws in this. not worth it anymore. i guess you dont watch the games. Coleman does not move from the paint. Obviously he will get more rebounds than the guys who are actually rotating and playing defense lol. Your lack of ability to grasp this kills me. We all have opinion, no one is right or wrong... but its pretty clear that Coleman will get more boards than Rak or Keita because they rotate our to the wing like they are supposed to to CONTEST shots, while Coleman sits in the middle like he is glued to the floor. This is another reason why teams get open looks and a good start against us.

I believe its pretty clear Coleman is a better rebounder than the other two and that you would go to any length to discredit anything that he does well because you'd prefer he didn't start or play even the limited minutes that he has played. Is it so hard to admit he's a good rebounder? No one is saying he's a world beater only that he's a good rebounder and has the potential down the road to have a nice offensive post game. Most have readily agreed that he has some serious flaws and needs to get better on defense we just aren't willing to throw him under the buss yet nor ignore the things he actually does d well like, rebound, hustle, outlet pass, draw fouls and have a pretty dang good attitude for a 5 star mcd who doesn't get a lot of burn.

 

[orangefan13]

Maybe he should be forced to look for them in 5 on 5 drills in practice. :noidea:
imo, This is Rak's sophmore leap year it came as a jr .Dajuan will get his next year, but hopefully he can still have some good contributions this year.

Rebounding against athletic teams that know how to get into the rebouding lanes of the zone is priceless, if Dajuan is really good at stopping that, thats a Big Plus. Colgate and Cornell aren't what I would call athletic.

 

[Henny & Coke]

I believe its pretty clear Coleman is a better rebounder than the other two and that you would go to any length to discredit anything that he does well because you'd prefer he didn't start or play even the limited minutes that he has played. Is it so hard to admit he's a good rebounder? No one is saying he's a world beater only that he's a good rebounder and has the potential down the road to have a nice offensive post game. Most have readily agreed that he has some serious flaws and needs to get better on defense we just aren't willing to throw him under the buss yet nor ignore the things he actually does d well like, rebound, hustle, outlet pass, draw fouls and have a pretty dang good attitude for a 5 star mcd who doesn't get a lot of burn.

I "liked" this post (sorry, I mean "Tee'd" it) only because there is no "love" button.

Last sentence in particular is dead on.

 

[TBCuse11]

So how come Rak & Baye aren't killing it on the boards early in the season the way DC2 does. You really do not feel that DC2 is a very good rebounder? I find it hard to understand how anyone could feel that way. Is rebounding that different in the first 5min of halves as it is in the rest of the games? I'm glad you found some logic in my post, I struggle to do the same with yours as it comes across more like ranting because the stat's show that your opinion on his rebounding compared to our other centers is most likely wrong.

i think he is ok as a rebounder, i may have overstated things some. I do think if Baye and Rak chose to ignore the proper rotations of a zone and stood in the paint the entire time they were on the floor (as DC2 does), then they would have huge rebound numbers. Nearly every possession ends with r big guy rotating out to the corner to contest the 3 ball. This is why forwards rebound a ton on our team.

DC2 does not do this. he isnt athletic or good enough. This is also why he doesnt play much.

 

[TBCuse11]

I "liked" this post (sorry, I mean "Tee'd" it) only because there is no "love" button.

Last sentence in particular is dead on.

what "STAR" recruit he was does not matter one bit. If he wanted to play more, he should have gone to a different school. Kid does hustle, that is the one thing i will say...

 

[jordoo]

i think he is ok as a rebounder, i may have overstated things some. I do think if Baye and Rak chose to ignore the proper rotations of a zone and stood in the paint the entire time they were on the floor (as DC2 does), then they would have huge rebound numbers. Nearly every possession ends with r big guy rotating out to the corner to contest the 3 ball. This is why forwards rebound a ton on our team.

DC2 does not do this. he isnt athletic or good enough. This is also why he doesnt play much.

That rotation is fairly new to our 2-3 like the last 5 years or so. Bays is great at it and Rank is getting to be as well. DC2 just ran at one last game so he doesn't ignored the rotations even if he isn't as quick or as good at recognizing them. Over all that is rotation that the center position might make at most 10 times a game so again you are exagerating greatly in your favor. DC2 has improved on rotating up on drivers as well as sliding back on baseline drives he will most likely never be very good at rotating to the week side corner although he has made the run 3-4 times this year. So your essesment that he just stands there and ignores the rotations is inaccurate. I get it you don't think much of him as a player but at least tryto be fair.

 

[Eagles20]

I believe its pretty clear Coleman is a better rebounder than the other two and that you would go to any length to discredit anything that he does well because you'd prefer he didn't start or play even the limited minutes that he has played. Is it so hard to admit he's a good rebounder? No one is saying he's a world beater only that he's a good rebounder and has the potential down the road to have a nice offensive post game. Most have readily agreed that he has some serious flaws and needs to get better on defense we just aren't willing to throw him under the buss yet nor ignore the things he actually does d well like, rebound, hustle, outlet pass, draw fouls and have a pretty dang good attitude for a 5 star mcd who doesn't get a lot of burn.

He might be a good rebounder, but he is a huge liability defensively compared to BMK and Christmas. He struggles moving laterally and this opens up the grey area all game because he can't rotate to take away that pass. He also can not rotate out to the corner on a ball swing from the wing to challenge a jump shot like the other two can. He struggles making the decision to either fall back when the ball enters the high post to force a big to make a mid range jumper or get out on the players who can make the foul line jumper and usually just stands in the middle feet glued to the ground. His offense in my opinion is not strong enough to make up for his weakness on defense. When you are the third worst defensive big man on the roster it's hard for me to see how when the games get tougher JB plays him over Christmas and BMK. I'm not giving up on the kid, nor do I think he has no potential, I just think right now because of his defense the other two bigs give syracuse it's best chance of winning games. He has a lot of time to get better and improve.

 

[MCC]

Hes much better getting around his man then Rick Jackson and his 13 ppg ever could, imo even better then warrick.

 

[TBCuse11]

That rotation is fairly new to our 2-3 like the last 5 years or so. Bays is great at it and Rank is getting to be as well. DC2 just ran at one last game so he doesn't ignored the rotations even if he isn't as quick or as good at recognizing them. Over all that is rotation that the center position might make at most 10 times a game so again you are exagerating greatly in your favor. DC2 has improved on rotating up on drivers as well as sliding back on baseline drives he will most likely never be very good at rotating to the week side corner although he has made the run 3-4 times this year. So your essesment that he just stands there and ignores the rotations is inaccurate. I get it you don't think much of him as a player but at least tryto be fair.

I am not saying he doesnt know what to do, he just isnt capable... and again, on a different SU team he might be a great starter. But we happen to have, in my opinion, TWO superior options this year.

 

[moqui]

I am not saying he doesnt know what to do, he just isnt capable...

let's be charitable and credit TBCuse11 with lighting a fire under Dajuan's butt

 

[zhanjuzi]

Rebounding is a key part of defense - and this is a place where DC2 is already providing value. 21 rebounds (10 defensive) in 45 mins of game play so far this year is pretty unreal (and unsustainable I'd imagine).

And even if he's not getting to every rebound, don't underestimate the toll it takes on an opposing team's frontcourt to have to continually bang inside against a 6-9 280 lb guy like Coleman. Believe me, there is an impact there. It's no fun to box out guys like that each posession & you expend a ton of energy. (So, when we can substitute a guy like Keita / RAK & not lose anything talent wise, it's a big time luxury.)

Then add in ability to draw fouls (even disregard foul shots at moment) that Coleman seems to have, and now your getting the opposing team's frontcourt into foul trouble.

Some benefits / impact to game are not listed in boxscores.

Yes, I admit that as space-eater, Coleman has done admirably.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Henny & Coke straight beasting this thread. Love it. Post more.

 

[albanycuse]

Henny & Coke straight beasting this thread. Love it. Post more.

I love the way he choose his handle if he wants to divulge it once again.

 

[orangefan13]

shaky potatoes

 

[Henny & Coke]

I love the way he choose his handle if he wants to divulge it once again.

Thanks fellas.

Appreciate the love for my username story too, here goes:

Story behind the username: I was a senior on the Hill for the magical 2003 run. Was bartending at the local Marshall street wateringhole (that used to be the legendary "44s" - ah, memories of Split Day, I only got to enjoy it once) at the time ("Konrads" at this time), and a few days after SU won it all, the entire team strolled into a packed weekend crowd at the bar while I was working. They were allowed to come behind the bar and serve drinks for people, when none other then Carmelo Anthony came over to my side of the bar and requested a "Henny and Coke, please".

Did it matter that is was common knowledge that the guy was 18 years old? You guessed it...not at all! I made him his drink, and he kinda just chilled in the background, sipping his Henny and Coke, taking it all in. Other players were taking orders and serving drinks for the customers...it was a wild scene, and something I will never forget.

Henny and Coke! On the house. Was the least I could offer for this guy who helped make so many great, lifelong memories for me and my family.

 

[igor]

nah, its been 33 games for DC. Kid is a good player, but with our current roster he is the 10th best player. He will be lucky, and so will we, if he logs 5 mins come ACC time.

he'd be 10 th best on the lakers right now. don't quit ur day job