College hoops is getting really hard to watch

[Coach Orange]

CJ shows us first hand how effective a midrange game can be, yet for some reason its been abandoned in college ball. I'm guessing its because these are still kids, growing up, trying to find their place, make a name ... to them acrobatic drives/dunks & "raining treys" are what's 'sexy'. Nobody ever got on Sportscenter for hitting a smooth 13 footer from the elbow.

Part of this issue is that there are coaches who instruct their players to avoid any shots that are not layups/dunks or three-pointers.

The thinking is that the further out the shot, the less likely it is to be made. However, this decreasing probability is offset in coaches' minds by the extra point for a three-pointer, so they like that shot. Anything in-between the layup/dunk and the three-pointer is, therefore, considered a "bad" shot and eliminated from the offense. In fact, this logic was the key philisophical principle that led to the Dribble-Drive Offense.

 

[armory]

BTW, could someone please explain to me why the 3-second rule even exists? What is so important about making sure the offense doesn't have a player near the basket for too long? How is this improving the game?

 

[jordoo]

I havent read any of the 4 pages of this thread yet... so I apologize if I am repeating someone else.

But Baye Keita performs an illegal moving pick every single time we do the high ball screen.

LOL, yes that has been covered page 2 I believe.

 

[LetMeIn]

Another thing that seems to go uncalled is the big man hip check/ hedge on the high pick and roll.
Watch the way an NBA team big man hedges as compared to college big man.

An NBA big man will take a quick jump out to deter the drive and give the guard time to recover and stop the drive. A college big man steps out to the top and sticks his leg in front of the dribbler forcing a hip to hip collision, often pushing the dribbler back off his path. This foul is rarely called.

Fixing the illegal screen call would probably fix this too, because the picked defender would be able to recover off of a stationary screen more quickly, allowing a less aggressive hedge by the big man.

 

[jordoo]

BTW, could someone please explain to me why the 3-second rule even exists? What is so important about making sure the offense doesn't have a player near the basket for too long? How is this improving the game?

If you can camp 3 or 4 guys right next to each other in the lane then everyone would do that, They would have to be defended and you'd have a good shooter shoot followed by wrestling on any miss. It would be aweful. Of course they rarely call it these days but at least it usually keeps it to one guy camping out at a time.

 

[JLine]

It's turned into an ugly semi refereed game of street ball. We should just let the players call their own fouls, it's basically the same anyway. Guys doing every cheap thing in the book and it gets let go.

 

[Knicks411]

BTW, could someone please explain to me why the 3-second rule even exists? What is so important about making sure the offense doesn't have a player near the basket for too long? How is this improving the game?

I think it started with Mikan and Wilt, and they'd just literally camp out under the basket (the lane was like half the size it was then) and dump buckets in. I guess, obviously before my time.

As for the NBA; I don't think anyone is saying it's pefect, of course it isn't. KG fouls all the time, moving screens, just grabs people, etc, and it's not just him. But the game is more aesthetically pleasing to me than college, both because the players are better and also because it's more wide open.

They concede way too many points, challenge so much less on defense, worry too much about injuries, and generally get far too comfortable using and playing against the same moves/strategies.

There is something to his, probably. The season is so long, there is so much traveling (to games, not with the ball, though that also) that its inevitable you'll see some of that. Also the scouting is so intense and deep that everyone pretty much knows what the other team runs.

As for the mid-range thing; I've mentioned it before, but it really isn't a high percentage shot. Even at the NBA level, with the best shooters in the world, the average on 10-15 foot shots is 42%. 16-23 feet is 38%. It just doesn't make sense to take a lot of those shots. The league shoots 64% at the rim, and 54% on an effective basis from 3. Why would you try to get more 40% shots at the expense of 54% shots?

There's a place for midrange shots, to open up the floor, make the defense guard everywhere, but they shouldn't be a staple of any offense. Very few guys are good enough to make it worth it. (Kevin Durant is 64% from 10-15 feet this year. He's obviously a freak)

 

[Orangeyes]

I'm personally getting to the point where if Syracuse isn't playing I can't stand watching college basketball . Seriously, I was channel surfing the other night and the most entertaining game by far was the Knicks game. I'm setting really sick of these 52 to 46 games. It used to be that only Pitt and Butler played that way. Now, apparently there is no such thing as fouling an opposing player if he's not in the act of shooting. And don't get me started on moving picks!! Wasn't that a point of emphasis just a couple years ago?? What the hell. They are ruining the best of all sports

Agree I thought I was the only one. For college I only watch SU & a game where there is an upset alert. With the Big East in it's final stages the appeal of watching inter and intra conference games has lost it's edge for me too.

Jay Bilas said today that college basketball scoring is at it's lowest level since the 1950's. There is too much clutching, grabbing and hand checking. The amount of fouls per game being called is lower than ever too.

Bilas didn't blame the refs, he blamed the admistrators of the game.

I mentioned in another post the other day, I pine for the old style run and gun vs this slow death, watching grass grow, paint dry, burn offensive game.

Remember when the Dome was rip roaring for much of the game. Sometimes JB gets after the fans for being quiet. If you look close enough half of them are asleep from a lack of action.

We went from 100 points for free fries to 75 for Tacos.

Our last 8 games we didn't even score enough for those Mexican treats and in 3 other games we wouldn't have qualified either. Hell we've had five games where we didn't even score 65.


To the powers that be, put the excitement back into the game before you kill it.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You guys who keep talking about the beautiful play of the NBA need to go look at that Ron Artest video posted the other day and tell me exactly how that is different than college ball. Metta (who was on offense) literally hugged his man, pushed him in towards the basket so that he could get any offensive board, and then took a swing underneath. Please.

I don't think it's fair to use Ron Artest as a stand-in for all NBA players.

 

[Knicks411]

I pine for the old style run and gun vs this slow death, watching grass grow, paint dry, burn offensive game.

I'm 28, and I feel like I really missed out on this. I look at some of the stats from games in the 80's, and teams were averaging 90 points per game. And that was in the era with A) no shot clock, and then B) a 45 second shot clock.

 

[jordoo]

I'm 28, and I feel like I really missed out on this. I look at some of the stats from games in the 80's, and teams were averaging 90 points per game. And that was in the era with A) no shot clock, and then B) a 45 second shot clock.

Players stayed longer and you did not play defense with your hands.

 

[djcon57]

I'm 28, and I feel like I really missed out on this. I look at some of the stats from games in the 80's, and teams were averaging 90 points per game. And that was in the era with A) no shot clock, and then B) a 45 second shot clock.

And no 3 pt shot til 87

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, can't believe I forgot the 3 point shot.

Players did stay longer, but it can't just be that. Teams just play a lot slower now, period. If anything, you'd think there would be more of a focus on transition now since in the half court teams are playing more physically.

I think it's mostly the pace. Using the NBA, since the numbers are easier to get, in 2011 (last full season) teams averaged 99.6 points per game, and 107.3 points per 100 possessions. To pick a random year int he 80's, in 1986 teams averaged 110.2 points per game, and 107.2 points per 100 possessions.

 

[armory]

Younger SU fans probably aren't aware that - much like tacos @ 75 pts - McDonalds used to give away free french fries when SU scored 100 points in a game. It stopped and is never spoken of anymore because the thought of scoring 100pts these days is like a taboo, like it would never happen.

 

[shandeezy7]

Younger SU fans probably aren't aware that - much like tacos @ 75 pts - McDonalds used to give away free french fries when SU scored 100 points in a game. It stopped and is never spoken of anymore because the thought of scoring 100pts these days is like a taboo, like it would never happen.

It was Burger King, no? I was very young at the time, but I seem to remember it being BK.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

College basketball has two major flaws. The shot clock is too long. Good players leave after one season. Anything else you complain about - moving picks, low scoring games, hand checking, etc. can all be traced back to those two flaws.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Chris Brousard is filling in on SVP and Russilo and just went off about the fact that no offenses are run through the bigs anymore in college ball. He also said most offenses are designed nowadays for isolation and there just aren't any really good iso players (ala Derrick Rose) who can execute that type of offense in college because if you could do that, you'd leave after your first year and go pro.

 

[Marsh01]

It was Burger King, no? I was very young at the time, but I seem to remember it being BK.

Yes it was BK. I remember the chants of "We want Fries" ringing loudly in the dome back in he day,

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Good players leave after one season.

This has to be fixed. I would like to see the football or baseball rules adopted - if you go, stay three years. If you can go straight to the NBA because you are actually the next Lebron, have at it.

 

[Marsh01]

This has to be fixed. I would like to see the football or baseball rules adopted - if you go, stay three years. If you can go straight to the NBA because you are actually the next Lebron, have at it.

This really needs to happen sooner than later.

 

[SoBeCuse]

this has been the worst college basketball season i can remember. these games are just awful, they really gotta change some rules to pick up the pace and favor the offense more, just like the nfl.

No doubt. Most of these games are slop. Not enough good shooters as well besides the fouling issues. We set some terrible screens too. Baye and Rak are just as bad as the worst screening offenders.

 

[Knicks411]

It's on the NBA to change the age rule.

I think that can be overblown in some ways. Certainly, the game is hurt if we're missing the best college age players, but I'm not sure that's why there is so much clutch and grab. That's on the refs to call. Edit: Or on the NCAA to legislate that those are now fouls

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I also believe there has been a serious deterioration of the teaching of fundamental basketball as a result of the AAU circuits.

 

[Knicks411]

I also believe there has been a serious deterioration of the teaching of fundamental basketball as a result of the AAU circuits.

I just feel like this is something that people will always say as time goes on. That doesn't make it not true, but it's one of those things I hear and I am always immediately skeptical about.

I'm trying to think of ways we could test the hypothesis.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I just feel like this is something that people will always say as time goes on. That doesn't make it not true, but it's one of those things I hear and I am always immediately skeptical about.

I'm trying to think of ways we could test the hypothesis.

I think it's very easy to see, especially if you watch SU hoops. The guys who come to SU believe that their superior athletic ability will allow them to get any rebound they want without ever putting a body on an offensive player. Except now that they are playing on the high D1 level, they aren't the best athletes anymore. Kris Joseph did this - Donte Greene - and now Jerami Grant to some extent.