Come Back to SU?

[HakAttack]

I know this is completely OT, but I'd like to get the board's thought on this...

I received my undergrad degree and masters degrees from SU from 03'-09'. I had to leave the hill for some personal reasons, (see Chucks thread) but I'm currently working towards a PhD.

Right now, I'm in my first year of a PhD program at UMass. Here's the program link for anyone that's interested: http://www.umass.edu/sje/ I'm looking to leave because the PhD program I am in at UMass is undergoing INCREDIBLE turmoil and transition. We have ONE faculty member under contract for next year, and are hiring two more for a total of 3. SU's is much more established and I feel would help me feel supported on the way to getting a PhD that I haven't yet felt since I've arrived at UMass.

In contrast, I find UMass the school itself to be cold, uninviting and HUGE. Big difference between a medium size private school and a large state school I know.

I've already been re-admitted back to SU, to complete the PhD in the area that I got my masters in: http://soeweb.syr.edu/academic/cultural_foundations_of_education/about_CFE.aspx

Basically I'd like to teach and become a college professor. I'm a bit wary about going back and getting all my degrees from SU, but as many on this board would say, SU while I was there was my identity. It was a home to me, and a place where I could grow as a person, make mistakes, but still be supported as a student and as a person.

I'm trying to decide...do I stay at a program at UMass that is perhaps dying (although could be back on the upswing)...or do I go back to a place where I know I've been supported and successful?

I'd love to hear people's thoughts about this...feel free to weigh in!

 

[br801]

I'm trying to decide...do I stay at a program at UMass that is perhaps dying...or do I go back to a place where I know I've been supported and successful?

I think you already know the answer.

Good luck to you.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I think you already know the answer, but by chance did you look at any other schools besides Syracuse.

 

[bballbeadle]

I agree with br. When you read your post, you have already answered your own question. But it does sound like you feel bad about abandoning ship. Do you go down with it, or bail? Neither option seems savory when it is put like that.

But when you ask the question: what is the best thing for YOU? It is not selfish to put Self first when it comes to growth and learning. We often can feel such loyalty to an institution and business, only to find out that this institution does not feel loyalty towards us.

Welcome home!

 

[RF2044]

Have you started your dissertation research?

 

[HakAttack]

Have you started your dissertation research?

Nope. I know what I want to write about, but haven't yet started the dissertation research.

 

[HakAttack]

I agree with br. When you read your post, you have already answered your own question. But it does sound like you feel bad about abandoning ship. Do you go down with it, or bail? Neither option seems savory when it is put like that.

But when you ask the question: what is the best thing for YOU? It is not selfish to put Self first when it comes to growth and learning. We often can feel such loyalty to an institution and business, only to find out that this institution does not feel loyalty towards us.

Welcome home!

That's the question that I've struggled with since I got here in August. This program at UMass was great ten years ago, but all of the faculty have since reached retirement age and moved on, leaving a place in transition for a number of years.

To answer your question about what is best for me, in a vacuum, is going back to SU. I was there for 6 years and made it into a home. However, I'm nervous about how I will be perceived in academic circles if I go back and get ALL my degrees from SU.

 

[orange79]

I have both my undergraduate and graduate degrees from SU. Hasn't hurt me a bit. As was said above, you already know the right answer. And living in the area, I know UMass is messed up.

 

[edowd26]

Get reacquainted with the dome mann. No brainer. Btw we are the same age, and have vastly suprassed me in the field of academia. Therefore we should fight to the death.

 

[HakAttack]

I have both my undergraduate and graduate degrees from SU. Hasn't hurt me a bit. As was said above, you already know the right answer. And living in the area, I know UMass is messed up.

Where do you live? I agree, they've tried to move on a lot from the "ZOO Mass" culture, but having 13 students arrested during the Red Sox victory celebration (riot) on campus doesn't help.

 

[RF2044]

That's the question that I've struggled with since I got here in August. This program at UMass was great ten years ago, but all of the faculty have since reached retirement age and moved on, leaving a place in transition for a number of years.

To answer your question about what is best for me, in a vacuum, is going back to SU. I was there for 6 years and made it into a home. However, I'm nervous about how I will be perceived in academic circles if I go back and get ALL my degrees from SU.

I don't think you have to worry about that perception. Ultimately, if you desire to go into an academic track, your area of research focus and publishing accomplishments will be as important as where you graduate from. And at that point, I doubt that anyone would frown upon you going to the same school for all three levels. That's not altogether uncommon. Besides, SU is a research university--that will be in your favor.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Even today if I had a chance to go back to SU for a coupla years, whether academic or work related, I'd do it. You never forget your first love.

 

[Townie72]

Pursuit of a Phd was described to me by a person I trust as an "endurance contest". This was a guy, who got divorced in the process.

When you are in an "endurance contest" what you don't need is a lot of other stuff pulling you down, distracting you and making life even more unpleasant.

I came back to SU to get my Masters, in spite of the fact that with my test scores, undergraduate GPA and work experience I could have gotten in a much more prestigious school. And the reason was "lifestyle". It was just so much more pleasant and easy for my wife and I living on the Hill or on the Northside than it would have been in say, West Philadelphia.

Every once in a while I reflect that that might not have been the smartest decision. But when I really think about it, I recall the reasons for coming back to Syracuse. This was reinforced by being held up at gunpoint on Rittenhouse Square in Phila a few years after graduating.

Of course, your problem is that you are almost certainly going to leave at some point in the future. But you can deal with that after you complete your studies. The other problem is that these programs are a little inbred. That is, what is taught and understood in the undergraduate program seems to leak its way onto the PG program. So you aren't getting a lot of new information and insight. I took grad courses at SU that seemed very similar to the undergraduate courses I had taken in a few subjects.

 

[llandz]

As soon as I opened the first link from UMass I thought hmm that would be something at Syracuse that would be cool to combine with something at Maxwell. Then I opened the SU link and guess what ? It is combined with the potential of taking courses at Maxwell and Newhouse. Plus what Bballbeadle said is spot on. I don't know about doing all 3 degrees at the same school. My son did his undergrad and masters at USC and while doing his masters was offered an adjunct professor position. He is in engineering, computer game programming. He is considering getting a phd at USC in the future. I know in engineering that tract is not uncommon. Although he works in the private business sector not in academia.

 

[LAOrange]

I think you need to explore staying at UMass. It may be uncomfortable but it sounds like you're almost done. I can't tell you how many times I've come across people in my practice (I'm an Executive Recruiter) who left programs and never got back on track. The perception is that UMass is a good university. I think diversity on the resume is respectable. Keeping the goal in mind is what's important. A year and a half in the trenches is well worth it.

 

[Marsh01]

#1

#2 - come back. I have never left

 

[HakAttack]

I think you need to explore staying at UMass. It may be uncomfortable but it sounds like you're almost done. I can't tell you how many times I've come across people in my practice (I'm an Executive Recruiter) who left programs and never got back on track. The perception is that UMass is a good university. I think diversity on the resume is respectable. Keeping the goal in mind is what's important. A year and a half in the trenches is well worth it.

I just got started. This is my first year. I've got about four years left. There are people here who are in my PhD program at UMass that have taken 8 years to finish their PhD. That doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

 

[orange79]

Where do you live? I agree, they've tried to move on a lot from the "ZOO Mass" culture, but having 13 students arrested during the Red Sox victory celebration (riot) on campus doesn't help.

Midway between Boston and Providence. I have no personal experience with UMass, just what I read in the Globe. They have a lot of problems to fix.

 

[HakAttack]

Pursuit of a Phd was described to me by a person I trust as an "endurance contest". This was a guy, who got divorced in the process.

When you are in an "endurance contest" what you don't need is a lot of other stuff pulling you down, distracting you and making life even more unpleasant.

I came back to SU to get my Masters, in spite of the fact that with my test scores, undergraduate GPA and work experience I could have gotten in a much more prestigious school. And the reason was "lifestyle". It was just so much more pleasant and easy for my wife and I living on the Hill or on the Northside than it would have been in say, West Philadelphia.

Every once in a while I reflect that that might not have been the smartest decision. But when I really think about it, I recall the reasons for coming back to Syracuse. This was reinforced by being held up at gunpoint on Rittenhouse Square in Phila a few years after graduating.

Of course, your problem is that you are almost certainly going to leave at some point in the future. But you can deal with that after you complete your studies. The other problem is that these programs are a little inbred. That is, what is taught and understood in the undergraduate program seems to leak its way onto the PG program. So you aren't getting a lot of new information and insight. I took grad courses at SU that seemed very similar to the undergraduate courses I had taken in a few subjects.

I've heard this too from people who are in the process. Being here in this program at UMass is like climbing a mountain (the PhD process) only to look up and see a pile of rocks and snow (problems with this program) fall down on my head.

Climbing the mountain is hard enough! Why make it harder on myself?

 

[HakAttack]

The thing that's holding me back is whether or not I should try to get more experience than just being at SU. I know I can get a PhD at SU. I will be supported. I've had a good academic career there and know a lot of people there who will support me.

I suppose though since when I'm done I clearly won't be working at SU, does that matter? This board may be biased, because there's something about the hill that is special to each of us, especially those of us who are or were students at SU.

 

[jgeorge322]

get a job already. just kidding. as the great bambino said, "trust your heart kid, and youll never go wrong."

 

[DoctorBombay]

"A young trapeze artist was facing a difficult jump, and when he came up to the edge of the platform he was so frozen with fear, he couldn't move a muscle. His teacher put his arm around him and said; "Son, you're gonna make that jump, and I'm gonna tell you how. Whenever you face a decision or a dilemma that fills you with uncertainty and fear, one that bars you from accomplishing your goals, just throw your HEART over the bar, and your body will follow. Your heart is what will get you through the tough times- follow your heart, let it lead you, and you cannot fail".
Dr. Norman Vincent Peale- "The Power of Positive Thinking"

 

[HoustonCuse]

The thing that's holding me back is whether or not I should try to get more experience than just being at SU. I know I can get a PhD at SU. I will be supported. I've had a good academic career there and know a lot of people there who will support me.

I suppose though since when I'm done I clearly won't be working at SU, does that matter? This board may be biased, because there's something about the hill that is special to each of us, especially those of us who are or were students at SU.

Your concerns make a lot of sense. Where does Syracuse rank in the area you are going into for your PhD? It sounds as though there is no doubt you should leave UMass, not just for the difficulty you are facing, but doubtless the reputation hit they are and will be taking. You don't want that evil on you! If Syracuse is not a Top 10 type program in your field, it would probably be most advisable to transfer elsewhere. Unless, you plan to settle in Syracuse and work at SU. Also - you have a rare chance here to explore someplace vastly different in the next 4 years. If you don't like the area or something else, you are not rooted for life there, but you may just find a new thing love.

 

[edowd26]

Hak, upon your return I want you to run into the Melo center, kick in Boeheims door and say...

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Having been in a masters and then PhD program I can sympathize. I actually approached SU about transferring out of my grad school b/c I felt, like you, that there were problems with the program that precluded my success. SU would have taken me back but I am glad I stuck with things (even though my grad school experience never did improve and I left w/only a small portion of my dissertation completed.)

There are schools that hire their own, UNC Chapel Hill is one, but these are very few and far between. Unless UMass or Syracuse does this for you I think the most valuable thing for you are advisers who are willing to help you find a job after grad school.

I have heard people scoff at those who earned all their degrees at one institution but none of that matters if you prove you can do the work and your work is needed/relevant.