Comparisons to Former Players

[Brooky03]

Who do the guys on this year's roster most remind you of from previous seasons? It can be playing style, body type/athletic ability, roles, or some combination of these.

Ennis - Jonny Flynn. Simply for the reason he's a highly touted recruit who's expected to lead the team his first year on campus.

Gbinije - Wes Johnson. Somewhat of a darkhorse who fans have high expectations for based almost solely on reports from practices.

Cooney - Louie McCroskey. Solid player who's head might get in the way of his ability. Seems to underachieve and only show flashes of brilliance.

Patterson - IDK. He's built like Paul Harris, if that means anything.

Grant - Demetris Nichols. Very talented player who has to wait his turn but shows good production in an increasingly significant role. Grant is getting more of an early chance than Nichols did.

Fair - CJ Fair. It would be unFair to compare him to anybody because he's on the top level.

Coleman - Fab Melo. Highly touted big man who needed to get in shape and learn some things the hard way in his first year.

Rak - Terrence Roberts. Has the ability to do great (very good?) things but lacks the fire at times. Ultimately, frustrating for fans due to underachievement. Terrence at least got angry some of the time.

Keita - Kueth Duaney. Ole Reliable. You know what you're going to get, for the most part and the team seems to gel better with his presence on the court. Might have a few breakout performances (or sky hooks), but will mostly stay at an even keel. Keita has more depth around him, so he's not quite as valuable as Dauney was, but it's close.

Obokoh - Keita. Tall dude from Africa who is expected to be a project.

IDK about Roberson or BJ yet.


Feel free to share your list or critique mine.

 

[cto]

Cooney is NOTHING like McCroskey. NOTHING. McCroskey was nothing but trouble from day one. Cooney is a very nice young man... who red-shirted when asked ... and who is very amenable to coaching and is determined to improve.

Grant has a totally different skill set from Demetris... much more athleticism... and much more upside.

Keita and Kueth have similar positive personalities... but that is about it insofar as comparisons.

Not that much was expected from Flynn (as compared to what fans expect from Ennis) -- at least by most fans who considered his recruitment as a favor to Harris.

 

[SWC75]

Newcomers tend to be discussed in terms of former players until they establish their own image in our minds. Then the comparisons stop.

 

[Brooky03]

Cooney is NOTHING like McCroskey. NOTHING. McCroskey was nothing but trouble from day one. Cooney is a very nice young man... who red-shirted when asked ... and who is very amenable to coaching and is determined to improve.

Grant has a totally different skill set from Demetris... much more athleticism... and much more upside.

Keita and Kueth have similar positive personalities... but that is about it insofar as comparisons.

Not that much was expected from Flynn (as compared to what fans expect from Ennis) -- at least by most fans who considered his recruitment as a favor to Harris.

For the record, I like Cooney a lot and I'm in his corner more than most. I didn't think I needed to highlight the fact that he's a much better person than Louie because it was so obvious, but I guess I was wrong lol. These aren't meant to be perfect comparisons. I was simply coming from the angle that both are/were very talented and experienced diminished roles because of mental issues, rather than physical or ability issues. Louie was a and Cooney forgets how to shoot.

I agree that Grant has more upside and a different game for sure. He's similar to Nichols in that we all knew he would be special after only one season but might have to wait a little while before becoming a main fixture. And, as I said, he's getting a better shot at it earlier than Nichols did.

Keita and Kueth's games are obviously completely different (polar opposite positions) but their roles on the team are very similar. They are the definition of 'glue guys' who don't play a huge role but bring leadership and spark the team.

Harris was the compliment to Flynn during recruitment. That's how I remember it anyway and I thought Boeheim's disdain for Harris evidenced that. I was never that impressed with Harris from day one; meanwhile, I couldn't wait for Flynn to get on campus. Flynn was the number 5 PG in his recruiting class and handed the keys to the team. Either you're misremembering who was the compliment to who, or our fanbase was receiving different recruiting info than I was. I remember some people thought Harris would be the next Anthony but I always assumed they were in the minority.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Here's what I'm HOPING from these three:

Ennis- Flynn (similar quickness and the ability to get going offensively)
Cooney- Andy (similar development- hard nosed D and sharpshooter)
DC- AO (with further range to his offensive game)

 

[bevosu]

If I had to compare Ennis to anybody it would be Billy Edelin. Similar body type...heady PG. Not sure my comparison is accurate, but that's my initial feel.

I hope he's a similar player. Ability to get to the hoop or dish, only with a better outside shot.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I don't see the connection in most of your comparisons.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Harris was the compliment to Flynn during recruitment. That's how I remember it anyway and I thought Boeheim's disdain for Harris evidenced that. I was never that impressed with Harris from day one; meanwhile, I couldn't wait for Flynn to get on campus. Flynn was the number 5 PG in his recruiting class and handed the keys to the team. Either you're misremembering who was the compliment to who, or our fanbase was receiving different recruiting info than I was. I remember some people thought Harris would be the next Anthony but I always assumed they were in the minority.

This is way off.

Paul Harris was one of the most hyped recruits in recent memory. Moreso than Anthony in my opinion. If you read these boards, you'll see many consider him one of Boeheims most disappointing recruits. He put up solid numbers, but never came close to what many expected of him.

Flynn was a year younger than Harris, and when they both committed at the same time, a few had no idea we were recruiting him.

 

[General20]

Ennis - Z Sims- not overly athletic heady lead guard.

Gbinije - Hard for me to say right now because I haven't seen much of him, but thinking David Johnson. A really athletic wing who can hit some jumpers too. He wont be the athlete DJ was (or the player DJ was, unless we are very very lucky) but he will have more guard skills and a better handle.

Cooney - Greg Monroe (see how I didn't go with a white guy comparison here, I bet your mind is blown).

Patterson - He might look like Paul Harris, but he is going to play more like Josh Pace with a jump shot. Or Kueth Duaney. I think he will be a defensive hustler at the top of the zone like Pace was, and have a similar handle.

Grant - When you combine both length and athleticism, he brings more than we have had since Warrick, so I think of Warrick a lot, even though Grant's offensive game is more perimeter oriented and less back to the basket. Offensively he will end up closer to what Fair is.

Fair - People scoff, but I see him as a poor man's Melo. They both like to operate from the same area of the floor offensively. Been saying it for years.

Roberson -Is it too early to say Grant?

Johnson - Shumpert - a shooter who did more than just shoot.

Christmas - Terrence Roberts, an athletic presence who is not overly skilled

Coleman -The easy answer here is Onuaku, but Coleman has a chance to have a bit of a perimeter/face up game, so offensively he might end up more like Derrick Coleman skill wise (minus the all-world athleticism), while defensively he is more like Arinze (I hope, he still has a long way to go on that end of the floor).

Keita - Runs the floor like Seikaly but doesn't do anything else anywhere near as well as Seikaly did. Defensively he is like a very rich man's Billy Celuck. A tall presence in the zone that can get pushed around by stronger centers.

Obokoh - Should be on the same career back up plan Keita is on. Hopefully will be close to as valuable as Keita has been to us.

 

[orangefan13]

Got to go after their ceilings.

Coleman- A mix of Rony Seikley and Otis Hill- scores all over the post faces you up can take you off the dribble. Has the body to bump like Otis Hill. Has a better Explosive first step then both that can take him all the way to the rim before the help defense can react.

CJ- Don't hate, Carmelo anthony- Carmelo had a faster first step CJ has a fast sidestep Melo posted up some as a freshmen CJ shakes his man and receives a pass more. Melo would pull up from three off the bounce more CJ will pullup from midrange off the bounce more. CJ probably the better defender but Melo slightly better rebounder. What alot people don't realize about melo is how much better he could have gotten adding all that strenght in the nba. In many ways a different game then in college for him.

Ron Patterson Dion Waiters- Hes not going to kill you with Dions breakdown dribbles but he likes to create, welcomes physicallity, plays artistically with natural athleticism, and has a sidestep pullup to match Dions pullup in the lane. A better shooter then Dion Waiters by the time he leaves Syracuse. His long arms on defense are going to be nice as said before he has a nice lateral sidestep pullup if that translates to the defense end he can be a stud defender. Solid rebounder. Don't sleep on Ron he has as much potential as any of our fresh.

BJ Johnson- Boy Tough one 6'7 and dribbling skills to break his man down, utilizes more bounces then Wes Johnsons 1-2 naturally. He loves to shoot threes(more spotting up), but has a nice sidestep right pullup in his arseal even if he doesn't know it yet.
Tough to call right now. Devendorf said he has more verticle then James Southerland and his head was above the rim on dunks so have a drink and Enjoy!!

Tyler Roberson- A true pf? Hak in post I won't touch perimeter because theres alot of potential there. He will go between the legs behind the back crossover and spinmove off the dribble. I can see him as dribbling and passing off the perimeter, better then KJO (hes got a faster second gear by alot) in the longrun. He already has post up jumpshooting as a fresh even turnarounds. He has pulled up to shoot threes off a side bounce ala Dnic. Huge ceiling should have been a top 10 freshmen on potential humerous they give it guys like Rak but not those who show the qualities.

Rakeem Christmas- Hes not as strong but Jeremy Mcneil. Likes the physical nature of the game at center, can Jump out of the gym, doesn't have alot of lateral quickness, a Solid shot blocker from a standstill makes him a true center. If he wants the NBA he has to fight for it with post abilities or lateral quickness to move to the four.

Baye Mousa Keita- I will give him Kristoffs hustle but hes his own specimen. Haven't seen a cuse player at center in the last 10 years with his refelxive quickness and iq. He has some solid lateral quickness and always hustles to double and recover. Hes a veteran and he is going to look like we have a pro player on the team and its going to be fun talking about that all year.

Trevor Cooney- alittle humor.Greg Kohls because he went from a seldom used sophomore player (only 38 points), to becoming one of the most prolific scorers in Syracuse basketball history. His 26.7 points per game during his senior year is the second best effort (by Dave Bing) of any Syracuse player ever. Cooney is a spot up shooter so I think Rautins shooting, with the potential to finish layups in the lane like Scoop(because cooney has some muscles) over time. Hes also more athletically vertically then both. Kid is a worker and I don't believe he takes doubters serious ever.

Obokoh- His legs and arms are stronger then Keitas at this point. He has a nice hookshot in the lane from close distance. Curious on what kind of shotblocker he is better standstill or weakside, hows his lateral quickness and his arm and hand refelexes. Could surprise and play some four this year if the backdown hookshot is natural.

Michael Gbinije a mix of Josh pace and CJ fair- I see the handles being more of a josh pace where he can almost play a point guard, I see Josh Paces and CJ's motor the guy can run multiple marathons I think he will be alittle faster straightline the Fair. He played hot potato with the ball alot in midnight madness (needs to keep control), but I love his motor. Reports say he can shoot the three well and knows how to utilize a screen how to pullup, pass, and go all the way to the rim off it. More of a longjumper then a highjumper. He thinks hes a better shooter then driver thets see him do both. Has some muscles JB likes him in motion. Interested to see him laterally defensively.

Grant- Tall, Keitas hand reflexes with Paul Harris lateral defensive quickness. In terms of blocking standstill and weakside together possibly our best ever. Needs to work on his dribble to better his post pullup.

Ennis I don't know yet I want to say almost Flynns speed with sherms leadership qualities. He can score needs to work on a seperation pullup jumper in the lane.
I love his voice in interviews so mature.

I think this freshmen class could be absolutley our best freshmen class ever. four of the five have NBA potential and dribbles. BJ, Ron, and Robersons sidestep jumper are the best on the team and thats such a rare quality in basketball. Underated.

 

[cuseincincy]

This is way off.

Paul Harris was one of the most hyped recruits in recent memory. Moreso than Anthony in my opinion. If you read these boards, you'll see many consider him one of Boeheims most disappointing recruits. He put up solid numbers, but never came close to what many expected of him.

Flynn was a year younger than Harris, and when they both committed at the same time, a few had no idea we were recruiting him.

Yeah Brooky is definitely the one misrembering. Harris was a 5 star top 10 national player and there was outrage on the board (and elsewhere) when Wooten left him off the McD AA team. Flynn was under the radar and a little unheralded when he committed to SU. He committed very early because he was a year behind Harris. After committing to SU Flynn blew up on the national level.

 

[moqui]

Yeah Brooky is definitely the one misrembering. Harris was a 5 star top 10 national player and there was outrage on the board (and elsewhere) when Wooten left him off the McD AA team.

the outrage wasn't that he was left off the team - he was actually voted on to the team, but Wooten pulled him off due to what he claimed were "character issues." Wooten unilaterally overturned the votes of dozens of informed national voters. The outrage was over the arbitrary action of a single individual because of some things that happened when Harris was 14 years old.

 

[orangefan13]

the outrage wasn't that he was left off the team - he was actually voted on to the team, but Wooten pulled him off due to what he claimed were "character issues." Wooten unilaterally overturned the votes of dozens of informed national voters. The outrage was over the arbitrary action of a single individual because of some things that happened when Harris was 14 years old.

lol, I remember when John Wall got caught breaking and entering and then getting his own house in lexington. Was he left out?

lol. Harris became a proud father while juggling college basketball and school.

 

[Eric15]

Cooney is NOTHING like McCroskey. NOTHING. McCroskey was nothing but trouble from day one. Cooney is a very nice young man... who red-shirted when asked ... and who is very amenable to coaching and is determined to improve.

I completely agree with you that Trevor is a much better human being than Louie, but purely from a statistical/production standpoint, each of their freshman years were actually very similar.

 

[Quazzum69]

If you go to statsheet.com, there's a feature that matches a player's stats to other players' to find statistical similarities. For each returning player, I used last season to compare to other players' specific years. Here are the details of this scoring system. The furthest back you can go is 1997 for comparing players. I only included comparisons that are 90% and greater.

Christmas 2012-13: 94.5% Craig Forth 2003-04, 92.6% Craig Forth 2001-02, 92.4% Fab Melo 2011-2012 (also very similar to McNeil 91.4%, Watkins 91.2%, Celuk 90.9%)

Cooney 2012-13: 91.2% Andy Rautins 2006-07

Fair 2012-13: 91.7% Damone Brown 1998-99, 91% Kris Joesph 2011-12, 90.9% Damone Brown 2000-01, 90.6% Wes Johnson 2009-2010, 90.5% Demetris Nichols 2005-06

Keita 2012-2013: 91.6% Jeremy McNeil 2003-2004

Grant 2012-2013: 92.3% Kristof Ongenaet 2007-08, 91.7% Kueth Duany 2000-01, 90.8 % Kris Joseph 2008-09, 90.1% CJ Fair 2010-2011

Coleman 2012-13: 88.3% Etan Thomas 1996-1997

 

[tee1222]

Wow, this is a really fun thread idea!
I don't agree with OP but I don't believe some are in anticipation of playing style/ability, rather similarities in tenure.
That said, here go mine. Some will be way off in the long run, as it's been mentioned that most of these guys develop into their own unique style of play, defensively and offensively.

Ennis - Autry. Decent-sized PG, could shoot, take it to the hole, pass. But I see him getting better numbers in APG.
Cooney - Marius Janulis. He has work to get there, but I hope he becomes this threat that spreads the floor for us.
Mike G - Too difficult to tell right now. I'm hoping Kris Joseph that can handle the ball.
Buss - Dion if he can end up shooting the ball well.
BJ - Moten with more size. A reach to compare anyone to those lofty numbers, but BJ might be that kind of guy that moves without the ball, creates his own shot when he doesn't even have the ball. Maybe even Kris Joseph.
Fair - So unique, but combination of Carmelo and Josh Pace. Pace just seemed to hit every little chip shot in the paint and CJ always has owned that game. Aside from this, he brings more defense to the table than the other two.
Grant - Hak. Attacker on both sides of the court.
Roberson - Combination of Wes Johnson and Wallace. Athletic ability, both a scorer and shooter.
DC2 - DC and AO
Rak - Rick Jackson type build, but comparison ends there. I would love to see him grow into this type of player on the offensive end.
Obokoh - Keita
Keita - Too difficult to compare. Mookie Watkins? He has this ability to get in front of his guy, make the shot terribly awkward, even if he doesn't get a piece. Did that a bunch of times in the tourney. Made life miserable for opponent's best bigs, in critical situations no less.

Seriously, this is a lot of fun, but most of my comparisons are reaching. Still, CJ will be CJ and no one else in the end. Same might be said of Grant, Mike G, Ennis and Roberson.

 

[Trueblue25]

Ennis

ready for this?

G Mac.

 

[tee1222]

Ennis

ready for this?

G Mac.

Wasn't ready. Come again?

 

[Brooky03]

I clearly was out of the loop about Harris and Flynn lol. I just remember my friends and family being really excited for Flynn and kind of so-so on Harris. It's natural to assume the opinions of those around you are the majority opinion I guess and I wasn't on the message boards at that time, so I didn't have much access to the fanbase's opinions.

Anyway, after his commitment, I'm sure there were a lot of fans who expected big things from Flynn or should have. He was still a very high level, national recruit (equally as high as Ennis). So, I don't think cto's belief that the expectations for Flynn were much lower than they are for Ennis is entirely accurate.

 

[Trueblue25]

Ron Patterson will shock the world.

The Buss is coming.

Are you ready?

 

[tee1222]

Ron Patterson will shock the world.

The Buss is coming.

Are you ready?

Now that I was ready for!

 

[OttoMets]

Ennis - Z Sims- not overly athletic heady lead guard.

Gbinije - Hard for me to say right now because I haven't seen much of him, but thinking David Johnson. A really athletic wing who can hit some jumpers too. He wont be the athlete DJ was (or the player DJ was, unless we are very very lucky) but he will have more guard skills and a better handle.

Cooney - Greg Monroe (see how I didn't go with a white guy comparison here, I bet your mind is blown).

Patterson - He might look like Paul Harris, but he is going to play more like Josh Pace with a jump shot. Or Kueth Duaney. I think he will be a defensive hustler at the top of the zone like Pace was, and have a similar handle.

Grant - When you combine both length and athleticism, he brings more than we have had since Warrick, so I think of Warrick a lot, even though Grant's offensive game is more perimeter oriented and less back to the basket. Offensively he will end up closer to what Fair is.

Fair - People scoff, but I see him as a poor man's Melo. They both like to operate from the same area of the floor offensively. Been saying it for years.

Roberson -Is it too early to say Grant?

Johnson - Shumpert - a shooter who did more than just shoot.

Christmas - Terrence Roberts, an athletic presence who is not overly skilled

Coleman -The easy answer here is Onuaku, but Coleman has a chance to have a bit of a perimeter/face up game, so offensively he might end up more like Derrick Coleman skill wise (minus the all-world athleticism), while defensively he is more like Arinze (I hope, he still has a long way to go on that end of the floor).

Keita - Runs the floor like Seikaly but doesn't do anything else anywhere near as well as Seikaly did. Defensively he is like a very rich man's Billy Celuck. A tall presence in the zone that can get pushed around by stronger centers.

Obokoh - Should be on the same career back up plan Keita is on. Hopefully will be close to as valuable as Keita has been to us.

I've got some reservations about the comparison game, especially when so many are speculative, involving players we haven't seen (and many others aren't based on substantive basketball skills). Some of these (Fair, Cooney) are good, though, and it's a fun read during a dead time.

Christmas-Roberts, though - not seeing it. One is a (I wish there were a less negative descriptor) low-effort guy with several offensive moves, the other was a gritty, super-energy player in the bottom 10th percentile for hoops skills.

I'd call Christmas a more-skilled Craig Forth (with a shorter leash and less consistency in position at this stage in his career). Maybe even better, a less physically imposing (but more offensively skilled) Mookie Watkins. Very capable but passive. (Actually, this shows how difficult it is to find good comparisons - each player is pretty different from everyone else.)

And, while I'm here:

Fair: Lucious Jackson. But more athletic and consequently better around the rim. And we'll see if he's as good from three with the increased attempts that are sure to come this year.

Baye: Jeremy McNeil (ish...Baye is much worse in transition defense and like 50 pounds lighter; each had offensive struggles and neither was the best rebounder but both are fundamentally pretty strong).

Cooney: haven't seen too much, but - based on last year's play - he's got more than a little Brandon Triche in him.

Grant: John Wallace-light. More advanced perimeter game (and defense) at this early stage, a great knack for scoring in traffic on the block (with the exception of the last 10 or 12 games, when he faded and developed some bad habits).

(Wow, we aren't returning a lot of production, are we?)

 

[OttoMets]

If you go to statsheet.com, there's a feature that matches a player's stats to other players' to find statistical similarities. For each returning player, I used last season to compare to other players' specific years. Here are the details of this scoring system. The furthest back you can go is 1997 for comparing players. I only included comparisons that are 90% and greater.

Christmas 2012-13: 94.5% Craig Forth 2003-04, 92.6% Craig Forth 2001-02, 92.4% Fab Melo 2011-2012 (also very similar to McNeil 91.4%, Watkins 91.2%, Celuk 90.9%)

Cooney 2012-13: 91.2% Andy Rautins 2006-07

Fair 2012-13: 91.7% Damone Brown 1998-99, 91% Kris Joesph 2011-12, 90.9% Damone Brown 2000-01, 90.6% Wes Johnson 2009-2010, 90.5% Demetris Nichols 2005-06

Keita 2012-2013: 91.6% Jeremy McNeil 2003-2004

Grant 2012-2013: 92.3% Kristof Ongenaet 2007-08, 91.7% Kueth Duany 2000-01, 90.8 % Kris Joseph 2008-09, 90.1% CJ Fair 2010-2011

Coleman 2012-13: 88.3% Etan Thomas 1996-1997

Cool - I'll consider myself validated.

Actually, the Rautins/Cooney comparison isn't a bad one (though it's easy to dodge it because of the apparent superficiality). But if Cooney actually starts to make his shots, it's pretty close: both good shooters, plus defenders, decent distributors. Cooney is already a better half-court penetrator and scorer, I think.

Then again, the Coleman/Thomas comparison shows the limitations of statistics. Polar opposites as players: one a very athletic player, very good defender with little offensive skill and horrible hands; the other a less-than-athletic player and below average defender with excellent hands and good passing instincts.

 

[SWC75]

Cool - I'll consider myself validated.

Actually, the Rautins/Cooney comparison isn't a bad one (though it's easy to dodge it because of the apparent superficiality). But if Cooney actually starts to make his shots, it's pretty close: both good shooters, plus defenders, decent distributors. Cooney is already a better half-court penetrator and scorer, I think.

Then again, the Coleman/Thomas comparison shows the limitations of statistics. Polar opposites as players: one a very athletic player, very good defender with little offensive skill and horrible hands; the other a less-than-athletic player and below average defender with excellent hands and good passing instincts.

Etan was a skilled inside scorer. Even as a freshman he made some moves that made me think I was watching his teammate Otis Hill, who was a senior. But he had no facing the basket game and wasn't much of a passer. We didn't see much of either from DC last year but I think the skills are there.

 

[OttoMets]

Etan was a skilled inside scorer. Even as a freshman he made some moves that made me think I was watching his teammate Otis Hill, who was a senior. But he had no facing the basket game and wasn't much of a passer. We didn't see much of either from DC last year but I think the skills are there.

He was ambitious with the ball in his hands as a freshman (when Etan and Otis spent a bit of time playing together). And Etan perfected a baby hook and achieved a terrific field goal percentage. So maybe "little offensive skill" assessed him too harshly.

But he didn't have the greatest touch and he could only score from a couple spots in a couple ways (and mainly, as you note, with his back to the hoop). I'd categorize him in the bottom half of offensive SU centers in the Boeheim era, which would put him far below what everyone claims Coleman's skill level to be.

[**EDIT: in the spirit of wasting a little time on a Wednesday evening, I threw together a somewhat arbitrary and subjective ranking and learned that Etan is in fact in the top half of the 20 centers who logged serious minutes in the Boeheim era - 9th, behind Hill, Onuaku, Seikaly, Ellis, Schayes, Bouie, Jackson, and Manning. Better offensive skills than Hawkins, Melo, Reafsnyder, Watkins, McRae, Ovcina, Keita, Siock, McNeil, Forth, and Celuck, in my estimation. This would be a fun thread by itself, by the way.]

(I'm not as bullish on Coleman as some, but he does seem to have better touch [when he's calm] and much better hands than Etan.)