Conference expansion tidbit | Syracusefan.com

Conference expansion tidbit

jr4750

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I know I'm not a board insider, but I'm at the ACC tournament this weekend and was talking to some friends of mine who are heavily involved in the conference. The message I got was that expansion will happen with
ND being 1, but "not likely," as was told to me. Outside of that, it was said that both UConn and Rutgers
are not real options (their words) and don't sleep on penn state.

Just thought that was worth passing forward.
 
The ACC won't have future expansion unless 1 of the 3 things happens 1. the SEC or Big 10 go to 16 teams so they feel the need to go to 16. 2. The SEC poaches an ACC team highly unlikely with the Florida, South Carolina, Georgia gentleman's agreement, or 3. Notre Dame agrees to be the 15th team and then either Rutgers or UConn will be thrown a life preserver. While I will miss the BET as long as the ACC rotates its tournament to Brooklyn, Washington D.C., Tampa, Charlotte, Atlanta, and maybe Boston, to go with Greensboro I will be okay with the ACC tournament.
 
Totally off topic, but does anyone know why iPhones change the spacing like in the initial thread?
 
I know I'm not a board insider, but I'm at the ACC tournament this weekend and was talking to some friends of mine who are heavily involved in the conference. The message I got was that expansion will happen with
ND being 1, but "not likely," as was told to me. Outside of that, it was said that both UConn and Rutgers
are not real options (their words) and don't sleep on penn state.

Just thought that was worth passing forward.
What r u saying here??? ND bing 1, "not likely"...what does that mean if UCONN and Rutgirls a no go...help me understand.
 
I know I'm not a board insider, but I'm at the ACC tournament this weekend and was talking to some friends of mine who are heavily involved in the conference. The message I got was that expansion will happen with
ND being 1, but "not likely," as was told to me. Outside of that, it was said that both UConn and Rutgers
are not real options (their words) and don't sleep on penn state.

Just thought that was worth passing forward.
So, ND, UConn, Rutgers
That puts PSU at the top of their list - that won't happen.
So how about Louisville or Temple or Boise or San Diego State? :rolleyes:
 
East Carolina and Davidson are then apparently in.
 
Notre Dame and Penn State are who the ACC wants. If Notre Dame joins a conference the ACC is at the top of the list. I highly doubt PSU is going anywhere. Unlike others I've never completely dismissed them. One of them is needed for further expansion.
 
I know I'm not a board insider, but I'm at the ACC tournament this weekend and was talking to some friends of mine who are heavily involved in the conference. The message I got was that expansion will happen with
ND being 1, but "not likely," as was told to me. Outside of that, it was said that both UConn and Rutgers
are not real options (their words) and don't sleep on penn state.

Just thought that was worth passing forward.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm sick of bot Conn and Rutgers and wouldn't mind never playing them in any sport. Penn State might be fun but I'm not holding my breath.;)
 
Notre Dame and Penn State are who the ACC wants. If Notre Dame joins a conference the ACC is at the top of the list. I highly doubt PSU is going anywhere. Unlike others I've never completely dismissed them. One of them is needed for further expansion.

Every league that has a chance at landing ND will keep a seat open for them until they decide to actually join a conference for football. You are right, the ACC is probably their preferred partner. Until they make a decision, the ACC will stick with 14. I also doubt PSU is going anywhere. However, prior to November I would have said there was no chance in he!!. Now, its just slightly less.

The only play now is NYC to really make this an eastern conference where the $ makes sense. A few more things may need to happen and the moves aren't complete yet but it ain't over.
 
The key for our future recruiting is that we must continue to play games in the NYC area. Even if we have to play some former Big East teams at the garden, besides St. John's. The garden is a huge sell for us in recruiting.
 
The key for our future recruiting is that we must continue to play games in the NYC area. Even if we have to play some former Big East teams at the garden, besides St. John's. The garden is a huge sell for us in recruiting.
OK I do agree that the city is an important source of quality recruits but th rest of the country has a fair amount as well. Its there we need to begin making inroads.We have not been successful in Texas. Even the northwestern part of NYS isn't solid orange. attracting the southern tier kids more effectively is another area of top Div1 caliber prospects. Going into the ACC and the advantages to me sound like hype and propaganda. I'll believe the corelation of the ACC and beter recruits when I see it happen. Until thenits:blah::blah:
 
The ACC gains nothing by adding Rutgers or Uconn. There is no gain at all. They will wait for a big fish or stay at 14. The only way that Rutgers or UConn get invited is to fill in for a team that gets poached and i just dont see that. The fit has to be academic first. ND makes sense they are a good fit with SU, BC, Duke, and have played many of the other ACC teams. Still i really doubt that ND makes the move as they dont need to. They will continue to keep their other sports in the Big Sun Beast and reap the benefits of being Independent in Football.
 
I know I'm not a board insider, but I'm at the ACC tournament this weekend and was talking to some friends of mine who are heavily involved in the conference. The message I got was that expansion will happen with
ND being 1, but "not likely," as was told to me. Outside of that, it was said that both UConn and Rutgers
are not real options (their words) and don't sleep on penn state.

Just thought that was worth passing forward.

Curious if there was a reason for the comment on UConn and Rutgers?
 
What r u saying here??? ND bing 1, "not likely"...what does that mean if UCONN and Rutgirls a no go...help me understand.

I meant that this particular individual who is involved thought that ND was the top option which we all believed, but was probably not likely to come. As for Rutgers and UCONN, the consensus I got was that they don't really bring anything to the table themselves. Perhaps one of them comes with a bigger player, PSU or ND. That or they stay at 14.
 
Curious if there was a reason for the comment on UConn and Rutgers?

In terms of what? I simply meant to say that ACC brass is not at all enamored with either of those programs by themselves. I guess they could be a ride along with a bigger school but without they most likely will never get an invite.
 
I meant that this particular individual who is involved thought that ND was the top option which we all believed, but was probably not likely to come. As for Rutgers and UCONN, the consensus I got was that they don't really bring anything to the table themselves. Perhaps one of them comes with a bigger player, PSU or ND. That or they stay at 14.

I know its money and football that drive expansion, but really, UCONN is the premier athletic department in the Northeast. They have elite men's and women's hoops, nationally ranked soccer, field hockey and baseball. I am not sure how the other sports are, but just in terms of athletics, they would more than hold there own in the Big East. I am still not convinced that Tobacco Road was all in on bringing another Northern hoops power to the table.
 
I know its money and football that drive expansion, but really, UCONN is the premier athletic department in the Northeast. They have elite men's and women's hoops, nationally ranked soccer, field hockey and baseball. I am not sure how the other sports are, but just in terms of athletics, they would more than hold there own in the Big East. I am still not convinced that Tobacco Road was all in on bringing another Northern hoops power to the table.

Expansion is about markets, not about bringing in competitive teams in field hockey and soccer. You'd have to explain what market UConn brings to the ACC that it doesn't already have to explain why they'd be a good fit. And then figure out if that market is big enough to justify completely pi$$ing off Boston College and making it 100% clear to them their opinion and preference is irrelevant to the other ACC members.

I'm sure UConnfans think the ACC is afraid of their athletic prowess, and if it helps 'em sleep better at night I guess that's OK. It just is an opinion that is completely unhinged from reality.
 
Expansion is about markets, not about bringing in competitive teams in field hockey and soccer. You'd have to explain what market UConn brings to the ACC that it doesn't already have to explain why they'd be a good fit. And then figure out if that market is big enough to justify completely pi$$ing off Boston College and making it 100% clear to them their opinion and preference is irrelevant to the other ACC members.

I'm sure UConnfans think the ACC is afraid of their athletic prowess, and if it helps 'em sleep better at night I guess that's OK. It just is an opinion that is completely unhinged from reality.

You must have missed where i said, "I know its money."
 
You must have missed where i said, "I know its money."

You also said you're not convinced Tobacco Road wanted to bring in another northern hoops power. So while you know it's about the money...you don't really believe its about the money. You're entitled to be skeptical, but if UConn brought the NYC market Tobacco Road would have told BC to go screw themselves.
 
Expansion is about markets, not about bringing in competitive teams in field hockey and soccer. You'd have to explain what market UConn brings to the ACC that it doesn't already have to explain why they'd be a good fit. And then figure out if that market is big enough to justify completely pi$$ing off Boston College and making it 100% clear to them their opinion and preference is irrelevant to the other ACC members.

I'm sure UConnfans think the ACC is afraid of their athletic prowess, and if it helps 'em sleep better at night I guess that's OK. It just is an opinion that is completely unhinged from reality.

----------------------

"Expansion is about markets"


I really doubt if someone spoke to ACC insiders in 2010 that they would have had a crystal ball forseeing what happened.


If one looks at the recent ACC expansion, while many motives were in play, Pitt at that time was supposed to have been approached by the Big 12 as an expansion candidate. The ACC moved for many reasons but one may well have been that the Big 12 forced the issue.


By 2016, the Big 10 TV contract is up for negotiation. Meanwhile the PAC 12 is creating their own TV channel. When a conference owns it's own channel, perspectives can change and strengthening the reach of their channel can help provide greater leverage in their bargaining over TV rights and coverage.


By 2016, what if the Big 10 decides to expand it's footprint to the northeast, and preempt the ACC by offering RU and UConn?

These are the 2 major state schools in the NJ/New England regions and with PSU could challenge the ACC for these markets. That would give the Big 10 14 schools.



What would the ACC do? Do they really want to allow the Big 10 to create a strong northeast presence? Would RU and UConn go with a possible Big 10 offer with all the financial benefits along with the CIC research benefits or would they consider an ACC offer to join with regional teams like SU, BC and Pitt?


Additional expansion may be over for the next few years, but in 2016 it could easily move into the next stage.


As far as ND, they may or may not decide to join an all-sports conference at some point, but probably only as a very last option. If the Big 10 were to actually offer RU and UConn, if UL joined the Big 12, would ND change it's view of the benefits of remaining with the new Big East?


Please note: the above are not predictions; just possibilities.
 
[quote="sufan, post: 225554, member:
By 2016, what if the Big 10 decides to expand it's footprint to the northeast, and preempt the ACC by offering RU and UConn?.[/quote]

The ACC would tell the Big 10 good luck with that. If UConn and Rutgers brought enough market share, they would have been offered over Pitt (or along with Pitt). They don't. Simply being located in a particular geographic area doesn't mean a school brings that market when they get added to a conference. At some point UConn and Rutgers will end up in one of the major conferences...but only as a consolation prize after all the schools that move the needle are scooped up. Whatever conference ends up with them will try to sell it as "securing the NYC market"...but that's nonsense and nothing more than an effort to put lipstick on a pig.
 
Just can't wait until September, 2013.

Will look forward to seeing a big "ACC" on the Dome turf!
 
----------------------

"Expansion is about markets"


I really doubt if someone spoke to ACC insiders in 2010 that they would have had a crystal ball forseeing what happened.


If one looks at the recent ACC expansion, while many motives were in play, Pitt at that time was supposed to have been approached by the Big 12 as an expansion candidate. The ACC moved for many reasons but one may well have been that the Big 12 forced the issue.


By 2016, the Big 10 TV contract is up for negotiation. Meanwhile the PAC 12 is creating their own TV channel. When a conference owns it's own channel, perspectives can change and strengthening the reach of their channel can help provide greater leverage in their bargaining over TV rights and coverage.


By 2016, what if the Big 10 decides to expand it's footprint to the northeast, and preempt the ACC by offering RU and UConn?

These are the 2 major state schools in the NJ/New England regions and with PSU could challenge the ACC for these markets. That would give the Big 10 14 schools.



What would the ACC do? Do they really want to allow the Big 10 to create a strong northeast presence? Would RU and UConn go with a possible Big 10 offer with all the financial benefits along with the CIC research benefits or would they consider an ACC offer to join with regional teams like SU, BC and Pitt?


Additional expansion may be over for the next few years, but in 2016 it could easily move into the next stage.


As far as ND, they may or may not decide to join an all-sports conference at some point, but probably only as a very last option. If the Big 10 were to actually offer RU and UConn, if UL joined the Big 12, would ND change it's view of the benefits of remaining with the new Big East?


Please note: the above are not predictions; just possibilities.
The ACC began making its move when Nebraska joined the Big Ten. The ACC formed a committee that researched this for a year before taking action. It's true that the Big XII overture to Pitt triggered the action at the time, but the planning was already done.

When the Big Ten made its selection of Nebraska during its last expansion, it carefully evaluated Rutgers. It also carefully evaluated Missouri. Both Rutgers and Missouri threw themselves at the Big Ten then. At the end of the day, Nebraska was offered membership. The Big Ten obviously doesn't believe that Rutgers offers it much. Missouri brings Kansas City and St. Louis, and it was not selected either. UConn doesn't appear to have ever been on the Big Ten radar at all.

Could the Big Ten come back and look again? Sure. But, with the PAC-12 alliance thing, they don't show any signs of interest. The ACC could revisit Rutgers and UConn as well, but it would only do so if ESPN was offering about $40 million a year for each for the television rights to the ACC. The ACC won't do this unless it thinks it needs to. Right now the ACC doesn't think it needs to.
 
The ACC began making its move when Nebraska joined the Big Ten. The ACC formed a committee that researched this for a year before taking action. It's true that the Big XII overture to Pitt triggered the action at the time, but the planning was already done.

When the Big Ten made its selection of Nebraska during its last expansion, it carefully evaluated Rutgers. It also carefully evaluated Missouri. Both Rutgers and Missouri threw themselves at the Big Ten then. At the end of the day, Nebraska was offered membership. The Big Ten obviously doesn't believe that Rutgers offers it much. Missouri brings Kansas City and St. Louis, and it was not selected either. UConn doesn't appear to have ever been on the Big Ten radar at all.

Could the Big Ten come back and look again? Sure. But, with the PAC-12 alliance thing, they don't show any signs of interest. The ACC could revisit Rutgers and UConn as well, but it would only do so if ESPN was offering about $40 million a year for each for the television rights to the ACC. The ACC won't do this unless it thinks it needs to. Right now the ACC doesn't think it needs to.

----------------

Good points: however:

1) The Big 10 expansion, in selecting Nebraska as team 12 to permit a conference playoff; selected a traditionally great football school, with huge attendance and strong traveling fan base, located in the midwest, similar in many ways to the current Big 1o schools.

2) One might note the selection of Nebraska, or at least the timing may have been influenced by the Big 12 pressure and discussions at that time, where the PAC 10 was an option for Texas and company and the question was put to Nebraska and Missouri, are they in or out.

3) The Big 10 obviously spent a huge amount of time deciding what they wanted to do; there was every kind of rumor floating around. They found out ND and Texas were not options.

My feeling is there was no consensus or strong motivation at the time to expand beyond more than one team; an expansion to the northeast without ND might have required at least 2 northeast teams. They made a smart selection based on a consensus.

4) My post is basically to challenge the idea that some supposed insiders can predict the mindset when the Big 10 media negotiations come up again in 2016.

The Big 10 will have more time to evaluate the progress and opportunities of their conference channel and the options for selling national and regional rights. They will have the experience of this past expansion, which seems to indicate Texas is not a likely possibility and neither is ND.

In the meantime the ACC has expanded to include SU and Pitt to combine with BC (and Maryland) in the northeast.

It would not surprise me if the Big 10 doesn't decide to take another long term look at the potential markets available and the potential universities available by 2016, with or without ND, not just as a midwest conference but as a conference channel owner.

There are also the downside risks of expansion where existing rivalries are diluted. And consensus for change may not happen if the conference lacks a strong motive or if the option moves them outside their traditional midwest identity.
 

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