Controversial end-game call seals Ole Miss loss to Tennessee

[cuseincincy]

Since when did taking a charge become "NOT playing defense?" Of course it is. If it wasn't, Kristof Ongenaet would never have seen a minute of time at SU. And we loved him! It's called a player control foul. Taking a jump shot and the offensive player wouldn't/won't make contact. The fact that it was 40+ feet from the basket is irrelevant. Offensive players have to control their body too. They can't be so out of control that they run into a positioned defender. It's called a right to a spot. The offensive player must go around the defender. If he is so out of control that he can't that is a foul. Good call, make your free throws.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Play defense and move your feet. The charge rule is the stupidest rule in basketball and officials can’t get it right.

 

[dollarbill44]

The shooter was undercut while attempting the three. That's a block. Didn't help that it was a poorly officiated game in general.

I don't think you're looking at the right replay. That's not even close to an undercut.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The fact that nobody in this thread can agree what the call should have been just emphasizes how stupid the rule is.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Arm placement doesn't matter. If Chukwu is defending a shot by planting his feet and putting his arms straight up, that's good defense, right? Right. If the shooter runs him over that's a charge. If Chukwu covers his nuts and gets run over, now it's not a charge?

Lol that's the piece you keyed in on? I was just describing what the Tennessee player did

 

[upperdeck]

so at what point does running over someone become OK? if we want to to back to the old rules where charges didnt exist that fine. But to think that was not a charge and good solid D is crazy.. i do agree its a bit dangerous since refs get it wrong so often. Still if that play happens 10 min into the game its never q question its the right call.

Now if you want to get worked up on the awful block call on Dolezaj in the UNC game, I am all for that

 

[EastCoast2]

That's actually an old-school charge - feet set for at least a full second, standing straight up and the shooter just plowed into him.

At least a full second? I don't think so. He's still moving at 2.4, you can see his left leg stepping into position. He's "set" at 2.2, and contact is made at 1.8:

 

[Cusefan0307]

so at what point does running over someone become OK? if we want to to back to the old rules where charges didnt exist that fine. But to think that was not a charge and good solid D is crazy.. i do agree its a bit dangerous since refs get it wrong so often. Still if that play happens 10 min into the game its never q question its the right call.

Now if you want to get worked up on the awful block call on Dolezaj in the UNC game, I am all for that

If you stand there to just fall over it should be a defensive foul every time. If the defender pushes off organically it's offensive, but everything you are taught says you should move your feet on defense.

 

[Cusefan95]

Block/charge is frequently called wrong by refs...but people that want to get rid of the charge aren’t really considering the impact on the game. Zion would literally kill people plowing them over if he didn’t need to worry about a charge call...he’s nearly killed people with the rule in place!

It’s a deeply flawed, but nessessary rule. The end.

 

[upperdeck]

defense isnt moving your feet, its getting between the ball and the basket.. what if they guy wasnt shooting but dribbling ?

 

[Jake]

The defender sets his feet before the shooter leaves his. I have no issue with that call. I think it’s a smart play by the defender.

Well within the rules and general intent of the rule.

 

[upperdeck]

Block/charge is frequently called wrong by refs...but people that want to get rid of the charge aren’t really considering the impact on the game. Zion would literally kill people plowing them over if he didn’t need to worry about a charge call...he’s nearly killed people with the rule in place!

It’s a deeply flawed, but nessessary rule. The end.

which is why that rule went away long ago. guys who were bigger stronger faster just dribbled to the basket and the D had to get out of the way. lebron would love it.

 

[joct]

I remember in 84 or 85 Andre Hawkins tried to draw a charge on Michael Adams of BC near halfcourt, with SU up 1, and Adams trying a desperation shot with 1 second left. They called the block and SU lost at the old Boston Garden. JB lost it.

 

[Chip]

The fact that nobody in this thread can agree what the call should have been just emphasizes how stupid the rule is.

That's what I was going to say. Actually I was going to say how stupid the sport is, because I like to exaggerate.

And Ole Miss fans shouldn't worry about the call. I would have swallowed the whistle on that prayer if I were the ref. Game was lost before that. Hit your FTs and/or play better defense at the end.

 

[Bayside44]

The reality on the block / charge thing is the foul should be given to the non-basketball move. White got a block charge on Tuesday elbows up and out while one of our guys was making a basketball play.

Re-watched the first Duke game at the Dome. Rak's block was straight up and down, Hood came across Rak's arm. Vitale Shulman got it wrong.

And the Duke game that should not be spoken off, Hook pushes off, and undercuts Fair. That's not a natural basketball play.

One of the things I like about JB is that he doesn't game the game with this crap.

 

[Brooky03]

Lol that's the piece you keyed in on? I was just describing what the Tennessee player did

I know, but it seemed like you were trying to add intent into consideration for charge/block calls. As in, standing or jumping completely vertical while defending a shot should result in a charge call if the defender is ran into. Whereas, a defender equally standing his ground but not making a play on the ball, shouldn't get that call.

 

[Ghost]

I think people are way overemotional about these calls, and that's largely on officials butchering them. The defender should absolutely be able to take a charge. That being said, I would call that a shooting foul.

To me, he's still trying to become a wall when the dude enters his shooting motion, if the defender isn't an innocent bystander, and is still sliding AT ALL into a wall, shooters fouled. If Tanner slapped the shooters arms before Schofield had stopped planting his right foot, and moving his upper body, it's a shooting foul.

So, Schofield fouled IMO because he's still trying to slide into a defensive position while the shooter is in motion.

Once you enter that motion, you're stuck in a path, if the defender can anticipate that path - then he has to play defense, and not wall off the court. He's still shimmying enough where the offensive player can't really decide how best to avoid him after he's set his course to shoot. That's enough for me to call it defensive.

It's so close though. Hard to be that upset.

 

[FireballPhil]

Defender was already falling back to the floor before contact was made. Offense purposefully jumped into the defender to try and draw the foul call. Typical play today on both sides to try and draw the foul. Depending on the ref it could have certainly gone both ways, but the defender had the position so the call should go his way. Should, but doesn't always. Risky for sure.

 

[cuseincincy]

defense isnt moving your feet, its getting between the ball and the basket.. what if they guy wasnt shooting but dribbling ?

Exactly. If the UT player HAD been moving his feet it would have been a block. The whole purpose of moving your feet on defense is to get in position to prevent the offensive player from going somewhere. But once you get there you have to stop moving your feet...and so does the offensive player. If one of them doesn't a foul is called. This is really pretty basic defensive basketball.

 

[cuseincincy]

At least a full second? I don't think so. He's still moving at 2.4, you can see his left leg stepping into position. He's "set" at 2.2, and contact is made at 1.8:
View attachment 154858

View attachment 154859

You fail to mention that the defensive player is in the exact same spot on the floor in both pictures, yet the offensive player has moved about 3 feet sideways and 10 ft forward both to the spot already occupied by the defender.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It’s such a left comment to want to categorically ban charges because it makes them uncomfortable. Give me a break.

 

[rhcuse]

Gut reaction first time seeing it at full speed -- that's a charge all day long. After going Zapruder on it for a couple minutes my opinion does not change.

Defender is at the spot but not fully set yet at 2.6 seconds, at 2.2 seconds he is set with 2 feet and vertical, ball handler sees defender directly in his path at 2.6 seconds (likely sooner) and continues to take 3 steps right towards him and jumps into defender at 1.8 seconds as he starts his shot thus creating the contact, defender is perfectly vertical and takes contact chest to chest getting knocked over by ball handler (no flop).

Great defense by UT. Two guys make a wall just behind the logo and #1 herds dribbler into them. Dribbler is going at full speed, but IMHO was more concerned about jumping into defender to draw contact than squaring up for a more controlled shot attempt.

 

[Tom K.]

SEND THE CHARGE INTO THE SUN IT IS NOT DEFENSE 28 FEET FROM THE BASKET.

You guys would be okay if Syracuse lost this way? Get out of here. The call is horrendous. A defender is absolutely not taught, 28 feet from the basket, to jump into a spot, set his feet, and get run over. Horrible horrible call. They need to get rid of taking charges in this fashion

I want the charge abolished.
But as it stands, the call was beyond correct.

 

[Madbiker]

Whatever happened to home cooking? Miss should have got that call. In the good old days of college basketball.

 

[dollarbill44]

I want the charge abolished.
But as it stands, the call was beyond correct.

Have fun going against a Buzz Williams team with no charging.