"costs" of scholarships

[Millhouse]

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount

at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0%

probably somewhere closer to 50

does it make sense that football scholarships "cost" the full amount?

rough numbers $50,000 x 85 scholarships = 4.25 million. if they were only charged 40% of that like the rest of the school, that's 2.5 million dollars a year.

 

[PhatOrange]

good point.

 

[Millhouse]

here's the link http://syr.edu/news/articles/Innovation_and_Opportunities_Assessment_Report.pdf

 

[GoSU96]

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount

at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0%

probably somewhere closer to 50

does it make sense that football scholarships "cost" the full amount?

rough numbers $50,000 x 85 scholarships = 4.25 million. if they were only charged 40% of that like the rest of the school, that's 2.5 million dollars a year.

Unless it's a flat out price reduction and not a discount based on grants and scholarships then why wouldn't it be accounted at full cost?

 

[Millhouse]

Unless it's a flat out price reduction and not a discount based on grants and scholarships then why wouldn't it be accounted at full cost?

the sky high tuition cost is just price discrimination to soak the third of students that are willing to pay it. doesn't make sense to me to charge the football team as if everyone of those players is in that sliver of people willing to pay full price

i don't know the rules about how it needs to be accounted for, I'm just hoping that one way or another, SU recognizes that it's not really that much more expensive for us to give free rides to 85 guys than state schools

 

[SmilinBob]

Or add a seat in each class. No expense. Housing and food may depend on their parent(s) income so that would be no different than the average student. Colleges and University's have tax exempt status and the highest % increase of about any cost out there. Let's put it this way. If SU sold the basketball team like the NBA, how much could they get?

 

[shandeezy7]

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount

at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0%

probably somewhere closer to 50

does it make sense that football scholarships "cost" the full amount?

rough numbers $50,000 x 85 scholarships = 4.25 million. if they were only charged 40% of that like the rest of the school, that's 2.5 million dollars a year.

Good question. I guess it depends on the accounting policies the school uses, and also whether athletic scholarships are fully funded by athletic department revenues or if other sources of funding are used.

 

[SmilinBob]

Good question. I guess it depends on the accounting policies the school uses, and also whether athletic scholarships are fully funded by athletic department revenues or if other sources of funding are used.

If SU was a stock you'd probably see a whole different set of books.

 

[Toga]

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount

at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0%

probably somewhere closer to 50

does it make sense that football scholarships "cost" the full amount?

rough numbers $50,000 x 85 scholarships = 4.25 million. if they were only charged 40% of that like the rest of the school, that's 2.5 million dollars a year.

Preach it. There are costs and then there are rate structures. Two different things.

 

[upperdeck]

a couple of issues.. shouldnt the school be charged for whatever the kid would have been charged. they can easily run the numbers for each kid and figure what the aid should have been.. you dont need to even avg it out just compute it. also why doesnt the ncaa make it fair for all schools and charge the same cost. why should large state schools get a cheaper program to run just because they cost less?

 

[Full_Rebar]

a couple of issues.. shouldnt the school be charged for whatever the kid would have been charged. they can easily run the numbers for each kid and figure what the aid should have been.. you dont need to even avg it out just compute it. also why doesnt the ncaa make it fair for all schools and charge the same cost. why should large state schools get a cheaper program to run just because they cost less?

Good point. It's a big advantage for public schools in Olympic sports where the scholarships are limited and are mostly partial. No idea why the NCAA doesn't do something like that if they really wanted to "level the playing field"

 

[SUFan44]

reading that bain powerpoint, it saiys a third of SU students receive more than a 60% discount and only third receive less than a 20% discount

at a bare minimum, that means the average discount is 40% (a third at 60% at least, a third at 20% and a third at 0%

probably somewhere closer to 50

does it make sense that football scholarships "cost" the full amount?

rough numbers $50,000 x 85 scholarships = 4.25 million. if they were only charged 40% of that like the rest of the school, that's 2.5 million dollars a year.

I would say a large number of the kids on football scholarship would get a higher discount rate than the average SU student, based on socioeconomic patterns within football... which would mean these scholarships in real terms are probably less than your guesstimate.

 

[GoSU96]

a couple of issues.. shouldnt the school be charged for whatever the kid would have been charged. they can easily run the numbers for each kid and figure what the aid should have been.. you dont need to even avg it out just compute it. also why doesnt the ncaa make it fair for all schools and charge the same cost. why should large state schools get a cheaper program to run just because they cost less?

All the kids are all charged the same, their net cost varies from student to student based on grants and scholarships. Whether is a needs based grant or academic scholarship or athletic scholarship the top line price is all the same. Maybe I'm missing something, but price isn't negotiable, financing is.

Unless you have a simple bright line rule there are so many games that can be played with price/cost, grants in aid, and numbers that you are just inviting more corruption than already exists.

At the end of the day it's just an internal charge whether it's $5,000 state school tuition charge or $50,000 private school. It's not anymore real for one over the other and it doesn't take resources away from the private school more than the state school.

 

[upperdeck]

its not a real cost to the school but a real cost to the athletic dept. they should just pick a number and have every school pay that fee for the scholie. there is a reason not every school fully funds all its scholies and why other like UCLA have fully endowed the scholies to take the cost away from the ath dept budget.

 

[GoSU96]

its not a real cost to the school but a real cost to the athletic dept. they should just pick a number and have every school pay that fee for the scholie. there is a reason not every school fully funds all its scholies and why other like UCLA have fully endowed the scholies to take the cost away from the ath dept budget.

Eh, it's fun with numbers, I don't think it's taking real dollars away. I don't think the school is making them pay for scholarships out of revenues generated by the department.

 

[tep624]

the sky high tuition cost is just price discrimination to soak the third of students that are willing to pay it. doesn't make sense to me to charge the football team as if everyone of those players is in that sliver of people willing to pay full price

i don't know the rules about how it needs to be accounted for, I'm just hoping that one way or another, SU recognizes that it's not really that much more expensive for us to give free rides to 85 guys than state schools

The Fair market value is whatever people are willing to realistically pay - a third of the student body paying full price is a pretty strong indicator that the market will bear that price. The discounting is just SU's way to try to compete with competitors with lower price points. Now if SU was discounting for everybody, and no one was paying full price, then the FMV definitely is less than SU's list price and I think you'd have a pretty strong point that the athletic scholarships should be valued as less when it comes to considering total "compensation".

 

[Millhouse]

The Fair market value is whatever people are willing to realistically pay - a third of the student body paying full price is a pretty strong indicator that the market will bear that price. The discounting is just SU's way to try to compete with competitors with lower price points. Now if SU was discounting for everybody, and no one was paying full price, then the FMV definitely is less than SU's list price and I think you'd have a pretty strong point that the athletic scholarships should be valued as less when it comes to considering total "compensation".

first and second sentences are contradictory

 

[SUFan44]

The Fair market value is whatever people are willing to realistically pay - a third of the student body paying full price is a pretty strong indicator that the market will bear that price. The discounting is just SU's way to try to compete with competitors with lower price points. Now if SU was discounting for everybody, and no one was paying full price, then the FMV definitely is less than SU's list price and I think you'd have a pretty strong point that the athletic scholarships should be valued as less when it comes to considering total "compensation".

Market won't bear that price if they need discounts to compete.

 

[rrlbees]

its not a real cost to the school but a real cost to the athletic dept. they should just pick a number and have every school pay that fee for the scholie. there is a reason not every school fully funds all its scholies and why other like UCLA have fully endowed the scholies to take the cost away from the ath dept budget.

SU is one of the few schools that an athletic scholie goes against the school enrolled in, not the athletic department. It's one of the fun with numbers things that helps the AD bottom line. That's $4.5M for football alone.

 

[Cheriehoop]

SU is one of the few schools that an athletic scholie goes against the school enrolled in, not the athletic department. It's one of the fun with numbers things that helps the AD bottom line. That's $4.5M for football alone.

Didn't know that. Interesting. That's for SU's internal accounting purposes? Wonder if athletic dept fiscal numbers are even available to the public to enable "apple to apple" comparisons between universities?

 

[tep624]

Market won't bear that price if they need discounts to compete.

That's not true at all. Practically every company out there from time to time offers discounts in some way, shape or form, for a variety of reasons.

 

[tep624]

first and second sentences are contradictory

It seems that way because I really wasn't clear about how I feel about the whole discounting concept when it comes to tuition. I feel that when SU chooses to "discount", it's because they place a greater value on the long-term revenue stream through donations and long-term marketing benefits that the academic scholarship students and athletic scholarship students offer them. In order to get those students on campus, they have to be competitive with the up front tuition costs because there are other universities out there trying to do the same thing. They place a greater value on the long-term benefit so they pass up a short-term benefit in order to realize it - it doesn't mean that the full price of tuition isn't realistic. It's almost like the Bic Razor philosophy. They don't give the Razor away free to everyone, and there definitely are people out there willing to pay the full price for the razor. But Bic knows the revenue stream for the blades are more lucrative, so they're willing to pass up the revenue associated with the razor up front to try to get that blade revenue stream from more people. If they give the Razor away free to everyone, under your concept you'd be saying the razor is worthless.