Is our defense really that bad?

[two3zone]

Pitt has won several of the most recent games vs us because of big plays.

McCord better have that arm loose.

 

[AAM62]

The issues, particularly the bad tackling, are due to the team being slow to the ball. Need better personnel in there.

 

[TheCusian]

But, it appears to be an afterthought. Looks too much like our bad tackling of the last 25 years. I guess they want to recruit their way out of the problem.

This is way over the top.

I'm pretty sure we tackle well just about every play, there's a few plays at the end of games and Ohio that stand out and stick in our minds. It's taught. Fran is a defensive coach who is detailed and does hold them accountable - so there's hope.

I don't know about a swipe about recruiting makes sense. Um, yeah - I'd love better players, always and on into infinity?

 

[TheCusian]

As to tackling, it was t an issue in the past with the same players.

New scheme with old players sometimes in new positions will result in getting to the ball late, which leads to poorer tackling. Especially up 17 in the 4th Q

 

[upperdeck]

A bad tackle that leads to 75 is the same bad tackle that leads to 5 but most people dont notice it.

 

[MamesJungro]

I actually didn’t think their QB looked great - missed a few open throws deep vs Deuce, the pick 6 was behind, and there were a few others. Wouldn’t shock me if part of the plan was knowing he wouldn’t be consistent enough to beat us throughout the whole game.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I actually didn’t think their QB looked great - missed a few open throws deep vs Deuce, the pick 6 was behind, and there were a few others. Wouldn’t shock me if part of the plan was knowing he wouldn’t be consistent enough to beat us throughout the whole game.

Been like that all year. No one has made us pay yet. Most of the teams going forward have QBs who can.

 

[AAM62]

Been like that all year. No one has made us pay yet. Most of the teams going forward have QBs who can.

they really have to tighten up vs. holstein. Hoping Wax back frees Diggs up to stay on the line. Also hope we can play another DE instead of having a DT out there.

 

[swish7]

This is way over the top.

I'm pretty sure we tackle well just about every play

Speaking of over the top comments...

The board is expending a lot of energy on this topic. Fine, it's something to talk about.

Respectfully agree to disagree. We are not a good tackling team D.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The defense is good enough to win.

Illinois doesn’t care they gave up 49 points to Purdue. They won the game, they’re ranked. Pitt same thing, given up 141 points to our 146. They’re ranked.

Our offense leaving points on the field in a handful of games (red zone; 5-10 fgs), block punt TDs, pick 6s, is the difference between us winning 48-20 in these games and then nobody would care.

It’s amazing that we’re blaming the offense now.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Respectfully agree to disagree. We are not a good tackling team D.

we’re dead last in the conference in PFF tackling. Even if you curve those grades it’s hard to look past that.

 

[PhatOrange]

It’s amazing that we’re blaming the offense now.

People are only complaining about the D because the games are close.

Some Redzone inefficiency including the INTs, and special teams mistakes have led to these games not being blowouts, that’s a fact. Four or five defensive breakdowns have also led to the margin of victory not being greater, and those four or five plays has resulted in an ok defense being maligned.

Defense in some key metrics:

Ppg - 22.3 / 134 total points
3rd down - 30.3 % = 17th
Rushing D = 52nd
Totals TDs allowed 17 - tied for 13th
Red zone TDs - 9 of 20
Total D = 67th
Points allowed - tied 46th (minus the punt block and pick 6 we’re tied for 32ish I think)

I read a lot around here how good the Pittsburgh defense is and yet they’re # 64 in total D allowing only three less yards per game, have allowed more points and have allowed 17 TDs same as us. Ruckers is also ranked #74 in total D and most people think they have a good D.

The Syracuse defense is not great, but we’re not toiling around the number 100s either, if we could remove a few of the big plays we’ve given up because we’ve fallen asleep the team D would be completely different probably top 50.

By the way our 5-10 field goal % is at the bottom in college football. There’s only a few teams kicking at 50%

 

[Chip]

What's most frustrating about the 4th quarter struggles is that it's not like they're a tired D who's been on the field too long. The offense is giving them all they rest they could ever want.

Just feels like mental meltdowns. Like they expect it to happen.

 

[DomeHolmes]

People are only complaining about the D because the games are close.

Some Redzone inefficiency including the INTs, and special teams mistakes have led to these games not being blowouts, that’s a fact. Four or five defensive breakdowns have also led to the margin of victory not being greater, and those four or five plays has resulted in an ok defense being maligned.

Defense in some key metrics:

Ppg - 22.3 / 134 total points
3rd down - 30.3 % = 17th
Rushing D = 52nd
Totals TDs allowed 17 - tied for 13th
Red zone TDs - 9 of 20
Total D = 67th
Points allowed - tied 46th (minus the punt block and pick 6 we’re tied for 32ish I think)

I read a lot around here how good the Pittsburgh defense is and yet they’re # 64 in total D allowing only three less yards per game, have allowed more points and have allowed 17 TDs same as us. Ruckers is also ranked #74 in total D and most people think they have a good D.

The Syracuse defense is not great, but we’re not toiling around the number 100s either, if we could remove a few of the big plays we’ve given up because we’ve fallen asleep the team D would be completely different probably top 50.

By the way our 5-10 field goal % is at the bottom in college football. There’s only a few teams kicking at 50%

All excellent points. People can’t get past the optics of certain plays where we were bad. standing alone, they don’t look good . So the fact that we are where we are on all those stats, everything else is actually better than you might think.

People look at records, but don’t look at who they played, how they played, how they controlled the game, etc. I maintain from what I’ve seen, at our best we are better than anyone we’ve played, and better than anyone we will play except for Miami. The only question is can we consistently put it together? And survive away game conditions and atmospheres.

 

[GoSU96]

It’s amazing that we’re blaming the offense now.

The offense was why Stanford is a loss.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

What's most frustrating about the 4th quarter struggles is that it's not like they're a tired D who's been on the field too long. The offense is giving them all they rest they could ever want.

Just feels like mental meltdowns. Like they expect it to happen.

This is skewed by the Holy Cross game but interesting none the less...

Rush YPC
1st Half 5.27
2nd Half/OT 3.78
1st Q 4.51
2nd Q 6.14
3rd Q 3.31
4th Q 4.35
OT 0.0

Pass Rating
1st Half 150.09
2nd Half/OT 129.93
1st Q 113.36
2nd Q 178.41
3rd Q 98.89
4th Q 145.76
OT 125.20


We do really well in the 3rd Q. That is a good sign that our coaches are making adjustments. But again some of these stats are skewed by that Holy Cross game. Really the 2nd Q is the worst for both rushing and passing D. Need to be better there.

 

[Chip]

This is skewed by the Holy Cross game but interesting none the less...

Rush YPC
1st Half 5.27
2nd Half/OT 3.78
1st Q 4.51
2nd Q 6.14
3rd Q 3.31
4th Q 4.35
OT 0.0

Pass Rating
1st Half 150.09
2nd Half/OT 129.93
1st Q 113.36
2nd Q 178.41
3rd Q 98.89
4th Q 145.76
OT 125.20


We do really well in the 3rd Q. That is a good sign that our coaches are making adjustments. But again some of these stats are skewed by that Holy Cross game. Really the 2nd Q is the worst for both rushing and passing D. Need to be better there.

Reads like a team that doesn't know how to play with the lead.

I think that can be fixed but I'm ever the optimist.

 

[shu 49]

New scheme with old players sometimes in new positions will result in getting to the ball late, which leads to poorer tackling. Especially up 17 in the 4th Q

To much thinking

 

[shu 49]

Speaking of over the top comments...

The board is expending a lot of energy on this topic. Fine, it's something to talk about.

Respectfully agree to disagree. We are not a good tackling team D.

He is right we arent good at tackling. i know people get pissed but angles are bit off and finishing is also off. a tweak or too and we good.

 

[VTAaron]

I don't think our defensive line sucks or is bad but a 3 man rush is bull****, but our offensive line definitely needs improvement. And that is my opinion and I'm sure everyone does else that plays SU, so they are going to rush 4+ every time because of that. They have that opinion, as well as everyone else, and until the OL gets that opposite, they are always going to be pushed...
At the same time our 3 DL line is going to get crap for rushing as we allow so much run, and big long plays... they are are all concerned on doing some zone cover for everyone else thing vs the long cover that we have given up some key things if we just had 4 on the line just for the show.

Let Safety's be safety's and let the linebackers roll.


Opinions?

 

[VTAaron]

He is right we arent good at tackling. i know people get pissed but angles are bit off and finishing is also off. a tweak or too and we good.

Agree.

 

[swish7]

He is right we arent good at tackling. i know people get pissed but angles are bit off and finishing is also off. a tweak or too and we good.

Exactly. Kids might be more worried about stripping the ball as opposed to a good old fashioned tackle. Definitely think the approach and finish can be coached up. Might be too late for some of these kids, but gotta try.

 

[VTAaron]

Exactly. Kids might be more worried about stripping the ball as opposed to a good old fashioned tackle. Definitely think the approach and finish can be coached up. Might be too late for some of these kids, but gotta try.

everyone wants to be a player that makes a strip, and be 'special teams'

 

[Crusty]

I thought there would be a lot of good bad and ugly when I looked hard, but there’s really mostly good and a little bit of very ugly. Almost no Bad. Statistically we are actually a middle of the pack ACC defense as far as total yards, but a top defense in many statistical categories, and ugly in 2.

A lot of the perception about the defense has to do with:
-Ohio game, that was an aberration and we have not looked as clueless for 4qtrs since
- 5 minutes of the second quarter versus Holy Cross with two blown coverages.
-the last eight minutes of Georgia Tech. Before that it was good
-the last 10 minutes of NC State. Before that pretty good.

Our two big defensive collapses came with comfortable leads against Georgia Tech and NC State where we played prevent defense at the end. Is it the prevent defense? Are we losing focus because we have comfortable leads? Can that be corrected?

The ugly part is two things. First we give up over 6 yds per play, third to last in the ACC, and we are dead last in the ACC in giving up 40+ yard plays.

However, those things are not necessarily as bad as they seem for a few reasons:

-Despite being dead LAST in the ACC in 40+ yard plays given up, we are actually just two plays away from being THIRD in 20 yard plays given up. So we are giving up too many explosive plays, but not getting “gashed repeatedly”. Our yards per play given up is largely a result of these big plays.

-Another reason is that we are 1 third down stop away from being the BEST in the ACC in third down percentage. So when we’re not giving up the big play. We’re pretty good at getting off the field.

Finally our Redzone defense is second in the ACC in giving up the fewest touchdowns, (45%) So a middle of a pack defense yardage wise, giving up second fewest touchdowns, is a good combo.

After the Ohio game, in 20 quarters (300 minutes) we are actually giving up ONLY 282 yards per game, (with the exception of just 18 minutes total of 4th quarter issues vs GT & NCST). We gave up 287 yards in those 18 minutes! Pushing our total to 340/ game in those 5 games.

So over the first 94% of the time of our games we have among the BEST defenses in the ACC. (and the last 18 minutes over two games (6%) have been a disaster). So as I started out with, could we focus better, or change the prevent defense when we get in similar situations? I hope so.

So in conclusion, for the majority of the games except for the last 18 minutes (total) of two games where we had big leads, we have been a COMPETENT defense. (if we could tackle, I might even consider us a good defense).


Note: we are also aided by the fact that our offense Is #7 in TOP, helping to keep our defense off the field.

Fair points. I wonder how the stats change if TOP was equal.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

Im not in the mood to dive into stats right now so ill throw out my bare bones opinion.

We are playing complimentary football. Our offense is methodically driving the field, holding onto the ball for quite some time and putting points on the board.
When our offense is consistently doing that our defenses #1 priority should be dont give up big plays for points, bend dont break, hopefully they make a mistake, tighten up in red zone. No need to take big risks.
If we end up behind by a couple scores im sure plans will change.
Im not a genius but thats what I see.
I will be watching for adjustments when I think they are needed, we will see how it all plays out.
* We need to tackle better thats for sure.
**Losing our Defensive QB was quite the loss and i think our coaches did a great job adjusting.
I also think our scheme has bits of hiding weaknesses, not just the complimentary football theory.