Coyne vs Wildhack...and Gross too

[Pyle]

I'm just curious and no I'm not baiting anyone, why do some people think Wildhack is so much better than Coyne, other than the fact that Coyne left in a douchy way? I might be wrong but I also think that most here think both are worlds better than Gross. That being said Gross did some good things obviously and got caught up in some not so good things. Without regurgitating the party line, other than the awful hire of Gerg, what did Gross do that makes him not even worthy of mentioning with the other two?

 

[TheCusian]

1. wildhack
2. coyle
3. gross
4. coyne

 

[syrBossHogg]

1. Promoted Shafer to HC
2. The Fab Melo incident
3. Ran the AD budget in the red

There was more than the Gergs hire that made Gross a bad/mediocre AD

 

[MSOrange]

1. Promoted Shafer to HC
2. The Fab Melo incident
3. Ran the AD budget in the red

There was more than the Gergs hire that made Gross a bad/mediocre AD

spending on the Olympic sports at the expense of the money makers which you allude to with the budget.

 

[Alsacs]

Gross negotiated a contract that rewarded him for how the entire athletic department performed not the money making sports of football and basketball.
The guy did a great job of improving the Olympic sports but he spent a drunk sailor to do that and grew the size of the AD with people that were loyal to him.
He had a vision and his branding of the program towards NYC did help. It wasn't a successful home run but a solid single.

He listened to Pete Carroll in replacing Coach P. That was his biggest mistake he made. Greg Robinson should have been fired after year 2. There is no way he should have ever seen year 4. The problem was he spent so much money in the AD he didn't have the funds to fire Robinson and hire a replacement.
He took the Notre Dame-MetLife deal because the AD needed money. He sold a bunch of games to Metlife because we needed money.
Jim Boeheim stopped playing nonconference road games as much as he could because the AD needed money.

Gross was a good AD but he was the fall guy for the Fab Melo affair. School paid him off and he moved on.
He did get us into the ACC. That goes on his ledger. The school AD will be financially solid because of that. Gross screwed up Marrone. Marrone wasn't given the support he deserved. He told Gross he was going to look at the NFL. Gross giving the job to Shafer was financially motivated and screwed the program at the worst time.

Coyle was a good AD. He rubbed people the right way but he was a bad fit and moved on. His firing of Shafer was needed he didn't give him a 4th year when we needed change. I doubt Gross fires Shafer. He hired Dino. He improved alumni relations, he had the programs on a good road. He worked to get the Ensley Center donation and worked to get bigger donors more involved.

Wildhack hasn't done anything poor but I can't put anything plus in his column thus far. He is solid but really we have no clue how he thinks of basketball or football.

I give Gross a C+ and not higher because of the NCAA violations.
Coyle a B+ he hired well but wasn't a good fit. So he left.
Wildhack B- nothing special but not poor.

 

[Pyle]

1. wildhack
2. coyle
3. gross
4. coyne

summab..... I was a little light on the Joe this morning

 

[syrBossHogg]

Gross negotiated a contract that rewarded him for how the entire athletic department performed not the money making sports of football and basketball.
The guy did a great job of improving the Olympic sports but he spent a drunk sailor to do that and grew the size of the AD with people that were loyal to him.
He had a vision and his branding of the program towards NYC did help. It wasn't a successful home run but a solid single.

He listened to Pete Carroll in replacing Coach P. was biggest mistake he made. Greg Robinson should have been fired after year 2. There is no way he should have ever seen year 4. The problem was he spent so much money in the AD he didn't have the funds to fire Robinson and hire a replacement.
He took the Notre Dame-MetLife deal because the AD needed money. He sold a bunch of games to Metlife because we needed money.
Jim Boeheim stopped playing nonconference road games as much as he could because the AD needed money.

Gross was a good AD but he was the fall guy for the Fab Melo affair. School paid him off and he moved on.
He did get us into the ACC. That goes on his ledger. The school AD will be financially solid because of that. Gross screwed up Marrone. Marrone wasn't given the support he deserved. He told Gross he was going to look at the NFL. Gross giving the job to Shafer was financially and screwed the program at the worst time.

Coyle was a good AD. He rubbed people the right way but he was a bad fit and moved on. His firing of Shafer was needed he didn't give him a 4th year when we needed change. I doubt Gross fires Shafer. He hired Dino. He improved alumni relations, he had the programs on a good road. He worked to get the Ensley Center donation and worked to get bigger donors more involved.

Wildhack hasn't done anything poor but I can't put anything plus in his column thus far. He is solid but really we have no clue how he thinks of basketball or football.

I give Gross a C+ and not higher because of the NCAA violations.
Coyle a B+ he hired well but wasn't a good fit. So he left.
Wildhack B- nothing special but not poor.

I do give Gross some credit for getting us in the ACC but I think the ACC always had interest in eventually adding SU anyway.

Wildhack has been working behind the scenes to improve relations with alumni/fundraising and hasn’t been really tested yet. But he’ll obviously have to make a huge decision in choosing who will succeed JB. That might be the most important decision of his tenure here

 

[Pyle]

Gross negotiated a contract that rewarded him for how the entire athletic department performed not the money making sports of football and basketball.
The guy did a great job of improving the Olympic sports but he spent a drunk sailor to do that and grew the size of the AD with people that were loyal to him.
He had a vision and his branding of the program towards NYC did help. It wasn't a successful home run but a solid single.

He listened to Pete Carroll in replacing Coach P. That was his biggest mistake he made. Greg Robinson should have been fired after year 2. There is no way he should have ever seen year 4. The problem was he spent so much money in the AD he didn't have the funds to fire Robinson and hire a replacement.
He took the Notre Dame-MetLife deal because the AD needed money. He sold a bunch of games to Metlife because we needed money.
Jim Boeheim stopped playing nonconference road games as much as he could because the AD needed money.

Gross was a good AD but he was the fall guy for the Fab Melo affair. School paid him off and he moved on.
He did get us into the ACC. That goes on his ledger. The school AD will be financially solid because of that. Gross screwed up Marrone. Marrone wasn't given the support he deserved. He told Gross he was going to look at the NFL. Gross giving the job to Shafer was financially motivated and screwed the program at the worst time.

Coyle was a good AD. He rubbed people the right way but he was a bad fit and moved on. His firing of Shafer was needed he didn't give him a 4th year when we needed change. I doubt Gross fires Shafer. He hired Dino. He improved alumni relations, he had the programs on a good road. He worked to get the Ensley Center donation and worked to get bigger donors more involved.

Wildhack hasn't done anything poor but I can't put anything plus in his column thus far. He is solid but really we have no clue how he thinks of basketball or football.

I give Gross a C+ and not higher because of the NCAA violations.
Coyle a B+ he hired well but wasn't a good fit. So he left.
Wildhack B- nothing special but not poor.

Good stuff. This is sort of how I felt about each of them as well. Gross was left with ailing facilities and a dying conference. He did what he needed to turn that around. I didn't realize how bad the dept was in the red though. Coyle did alot in a short time then pissed everyone off. I hear people talk about how great Wildhack is. To me is just steering the ship. We did just get a major donation though, was he a major player in that?

 

[Pyle]

spending on the Olympic sports at the expense of the money makers which you allude to with the budget.

What do you mean when you say at the expense of? Sure funding increased for those sports but did it actually affect the funds for bb/fb? Seems during that time we spent a decent amount on football/basketball as well just with the dome improvements. Jake's dome was a craphole.

 

[TheCusian]

Good stuff. This is sort of how I felt about each of them as well. Gross was left with ailing facilities and a dying conference. He did what he needed to turn that around. I didn't realize how bad the dept was in the red though. Coyle did alot in a short time then pissed everyone off. I hear people talk about how great Wildhack is. To me is just steering the ship. We did just get a major donation though, was he a major player in that?

yes. Big part:SU AD Receives $25M Gift from Former Player

 

[Pyle]

I do give Gross some credit for getting us in the ACC but I think the ACC always had interest in eventually adding SU anyway.

Wildhack has been working behind the scenes to improve relations with alumni/fundraising and hasn’t been really tested yet. But he’ll obviously have to make a huge decision in choosing who will succeed JB. That might be the most important decision of his tenure here

Jake screwed up our first invite. Yeah I know the story of the VA Gov but outside of that, they still wanted us a year later, Jake let his ego get in the way and let BC snap up the invite. So in my eye, Gross got done what needed to and what others before him had failed to do.

 

[Alsacs]

Good stuff. This is sort of how I felt about each of them as well. Gross was left with ailing facilities and a dying conference. He did what he needed to turn that around. I didn't realize how bad the dept was in the red though. Coyle did alot in a short time then pissed everyone off. I hear people talk about how great Wildhack is. To me is just steering the ship. We did just get a major donation though, was he a major player in that?

Last sentence I am going Wildhack credit for it but Coyle put an emphasis on finding big donors and treating them well. It was a program started by Coyle but Wildhack should get the credit for getting the job done.
I don't think Wildhack is bad at all I just think people like him so it inflates how people think of his performance which has been just fine not great.

Gross spent because he had incentives and wanted to earn them. It isn't bad but it put strain on the AD. The guy improved the Olympic sports but botched football badly.

 

[djorange1989]

Last sentence I am going Wildhack credit for it but Coyle put an emphasis on finding big donors and treating them well. It was a program started by Coyle but Wildhack should get the credit for getting the job done.
I don't think Wildhack is bad at all I just think people like him so it inflates how people think of his performance which has been just fine not great.

Gross spent because he had incentives and wanted to earn them. It isn't bad but it put strain on the AD. The guy improved the Olympic sports but botched football badly.

it's bad when wanting to earn extra money for yourself helps torch the entire budget of the department and neglects one of the two biggest revenue sports. that is also the fault of the administration for setting up such a dumbass incentive structure

 

[rrlbees]

Gross negotiated a contract that rewarded him for how the entire athletic department performed not the money making sports of football and basketball.
The guy did a great job of improving the Olympic sports but he spent a drunk sailor to do that and grew the size of the AD with people that were loyal to him.
He had a vision and his branding of the program towards NYC did help. It wasn't a successful home run but a solid single.

He listened to Pete Carroll in replacing Coach P. That was his biggest mistake he made. Greg Robinson should have been fired after year 2. There is no way he should have ever seen year 4. The problem was he spent so much money in the AD he didn't have the funds to fire Robinson and hire a replacement.
He took the Notre Dame-MetLife deal because the AD needed money. He sold a bunch of games to Metlife because we needed money.
Jim Boeheim stopped playing nonconference road games as much as he could because the AD needed money.

Gross was a good AD but he was the fall guy for the Fab Melo affair. School paid him off and he moved on.
He did get us into the ACC. That goes on his ledger. The school AD will be financially solid because of that. Gross screwed up Marrone. Marrone wasn't given the support he deserved. He told Gross he was going to look at the NFL. Gross giving the job to Shafer was financially motivated and screwed the program at the worst time.

Coyle was a good AD. He rubbed people the right way but he was a bad fit and moved on. His firing of Shafer was needed he didn't give him a 4th year when we needed change. I doubt Gross fires Shafer. He hired Dino. He improved alumni relations, he had the programs on a good road. He worked to get the Ensley Center donation and worked to get bigger donors more involved.

Wildhack hasn't done anything poor but I can't put anything plus in his column thus far. He is solid but really we have no clue how he thinks of basketball or football.

I give Gross a C+ and not higher because of the NCAA violations.
Coyle a B+ he hired well but wasn't a good fit. So he left.
Wildhack B- nothing special but not poor.

many incorrect facts.

 

[Jake]

Coyle left in part because he thought our Athletic Department was dysfunctional.

He also knew transitioning from JB to Hop was going to be a helluva lift.

I think it was that combo that ultimately motivated him to leave.

 

[djorange1989]

Jake screwed up our first invite. Yeah I know the story of the VA Gov but outside of that, they still wanted us a year later, Jake let his ego get in the way and let BC snap up the invite. So in my eye, Gross got done what needed to and what others before him had failed to do.

I think besides ego he let his heart do the thinking and not his head. He loved Big East hoops and did not want to leave it. Even at the expense of football and overall revenue

 

[Alsacs]

many incorrect facts.

Feel free to correct what you think. Just saying incorrect facts doesn't help.

 

[Newhouser]

Coyle left in part because he thought our Athletic Department was dysfunctional.

He also knew transitioning from JB to Hop was going to be a helluva lift.

I think it was that combo that ultimately motivated him to leave.

I agree but wasn't the other part of it - more $, better funded programs, etc? I think if any Big 10 school comes at future AD's we would be up against it unless they are alums.

 

[Alsacs]

I think besides ego he let his heart do the thinking and not his head. He loved Big East hoops and did not want to leave it. Even at the expense of football and overall revenue

Jake retired because the Big East formed the 16 team hybrid. He wanted no part of that.
I don't think it was ego. I think it was Jake C was loyal. BC was two-face. Jake told the Big East he wouldn't be two faced. He didn't want the hybrid but he was loyal.

 

[corpjet]

for Gross specifically to MBB and FB he gets the honors of worst AD in Cuse history....

cant speak for the Olympic sports but he screwed the pooch for the 2 bread winners.....

 

[orange79]

for Gross specifically to MBB and FB he gets the honors of worst AD in Cuse history...

cant speak for the Olympic sports but he screwed the pooch for the 2 bread winners...

To be fair, Olympic sports underwent a Renaissance under his watch.

 

[IthacaMatt]

1. Promoted Shafer to HC
2. The Fab Melo incident
3. Ran the AD budget in the red

There was more than the Gergs hire that made Gross a bad/mediocre AD

The "New York's Team" branding strategy, games in Giants Stadium (some unpopular at the time ...), helping bring us the bowl game in Yankee Stadium, and really excellent hires in non-revenue sports (maybe at too high salaries) that brought several of those programs to nationally elite status. All of that stuff is what he leveraged to help get us into the ACC.

He may have had his issues, but overall, so far he is our most significant AD in my lifetime. I think Wildhack will wind up better, but how he handles the JB succession is going to be key to his tenure. That and I suppose the Dome rebuild and name rights licensing.

I'll say right now that I think JB pulls a Calhoun and sticks us with a one year audition for Gerry or Red, and I think that's a big mistake if Wildhack let's that happen. He should start putting out feelers next year, Buddy's junior year to find candidates of interest. I think JB should retire at the end of Buddy's service to the program.
He's a really good kid and really talented. I just wish we could have put some more talent around him so we didn't have to over-rely on the coach's son as a sophomore to be your second best player.

But anyway, how Wildhack handles JB's retirement is his legacy.

 

[TheHaze315]

Coyne?

 

[cto]

How soon they forget ...

Given the hand he was dealt, Jake Crouthamel did an outstanding job here.

He was instrumental in the formation of the Big East Conference (which put SU basketball on the map). And he got SU its first invitation to the ACC (which was withdrawn thanks to Virginia politics that had nothing to do with SU).

Proof of the respect he earned from his peers, he is the only SU person to have served on the NCAA Basketball Committee. SU teams won 10 national championships during his tenure here -- in spite of serious budget constraints on the department

Due to internal SU politics, Jake reported to chief financial officer Lou Maracocia, rather than reporting directly to the chancellor. Maracocia used the Athletic Department as his little cash cow, strangling it financially (no investment) so that it would help his bottom line.

In one of her first acts as chancellor, Nancy Cantor forced Jake to retire because she wanted her own person in the job. Then she immediately hired Daryl Gross and had him report directly to her, thereby eliminating Lou Maracocia's ability to control the Athletic Department budget. Gross immediately hired lots of people (both staff and coaches) at salaries way above those in the Crouthamel era and vastly increased spending in other areas (such as marketing). And as a condition of his employment, he insisted on putting his wife (at the time his very public girlfriend whom he described as "the love of my life") on the AD payroll, an absolute management no-no, which Canter agreed to.

I could go on and on, but I won't. My point is that Jake Crouthamel operated under chancellors (and a chief financial officer) who wanted to minimize athletic spending. Then, his successor was essentially given a blank check.

 

[GoSU96]

How soon they forget ...

Given the hand he was dealt, Jake Crouthamel did an outstanding job here.

He was instrumental in the formation of the Big East Conference (which put SU basketball on the map). And he got SU its first invitation to the ACC (which was withdrawn thanks to Virginia politics).

Proof of the respect he earned from his peers, he is the only SU person to have served on the NCAA Basketball Committee. SU teams won 10 national championships during his tenure here -- in spite of serious budget constraints on the department

Due to internal SU politics, Jake reported to chief financial officer Lou Maracocia, rather than reporting directly to the chancellor. Maracocia used the Athletic Department as his little cash cow, strangling it financially (no investment) so that it would help his bottom line.

In one of her first acts as chancellor, Nancy Cantor forced Jake to retire because she wanted her own person in the job. Then she immediately hired Daryl Gross and had him report directly to her, thereby eliminating Lou Maracocia's ability to control the Athletic Department budget. Gross immediately hired lots of people (both staff and coaches) at salaries way above those in the Crouthamel era and vastly increased spending in other areas (such as marketing). And as a condition of his employment, he insisted on putting his wife on the AD payroll (which Canter agreed to).

I could go on and on, but I won't. My point is that Jake Crouthamel operated under chancellors (and a chief financial officer) who wanted to minimize athletic spending. Then, his successor, was essentially given a blank check.

Thank you for bringing some reality to the discussion. It's interesting how every horrible decision in the last 20 years points back to one person.