Crap we are never good at

[Cusefan0307]

Most of these posters weren't around in the fan era when everyone hated Bernie

Not to mention Bernie was an awful recruiter by the time he was taken off the road and people think Gerry isn't good at it.

It's the old timers calling into radio shows here screaming about his greatness. It's not the younger generations.

 

[SU94]

-feeding the post.

Well, other than 2014-15, when we feeding Christmas on the blocks accounted for the majority of our offense.
Facts be damned.

 

[Alsacs]

Seikaly, Otis Hill, Etan, Hak, AO were each very raw when they arrived and polished big men when they left.

Who gets credit for Rick Jackson? I forget when Bernie left. Rick's Junior and Senior year were great as well.

 

[Eric15]

Who gets credit for Rick Jackson? I forget when Bernie left. Rick's Junior and Senior year were great as well.

I forgot about Rick. Bernie left the year after Rick graduated.

 

[Alsacs]

Not to mention Bernie was an awful recruiter by the time he was taken off the road and people think Gerry isn't good at it.

It's the old timers calling into radio shows here screaming about his greatness. It's not the younger generations.

Mike Hopkins recruited the players in our recent Golden Age but Fine did a good job with the big men MH recruited.
I am not worried about MH recruiting but Gerry hasn't earned being a made man yet. He got Moyer but Gerry hasn't proven he has has the chops to be a great recruiter. I think our current staff could use a shakeup but JB is too loyal to consider it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Mike Hopkins recruited the players in our recent Golden Age but Fine did a good job with the big men MH recruited.
I am not worried about MH recruiting but Gerry hasn't earned being a made man yet. He got Moyer but Gerry hasn't proven he has has the chops to be a great recruiter. I think our current staff could use a shakeup but JB is too loyal to consider it.

I'll take Gerry and Hopkins over Fine all day. Fine wasn't even getting talent like Moyer by the time he was replaced by Mike as the top assistant. Theres a reason he was taken off the road. Somehow Bernie Fine's reputation has blown up the past 4 years since he was forced out. Part of the reason we had less talent from the mid-90's to the early oughts was a direct result of his and Orr's poor recruiting. It was worse than what we have now.

 

[Alsacs]

I'll take Gerry and Hopkins over Fine all day. Fine wasn't even getting talent like Moyer by the time he was replaced by Mike as the top assistant. Theres a reason he was taken off the road. Somehow Bernie Fine's reputation has blown up the past 4 years since he was forced out. Part of the reason we had less talent from the mid-90's to the early oughts was a direct result of his and Orr's poor recruiting. It was worse than what we have now.

I would agree recruiting went up when Mike Hopkins replaced Bernie Fine as lead assistant and started being the head of recruiting. Mike delivered a lot of studs.
Bernie's rep hasn't skyrocketed people are saying he did a better job at developing our big men to play well. It is a fact not an opinion.
Rak should not have take 4 years with his talent to get to where he was. We replaced our big man coach with a guard and moved guard coach to big men. That deserves scrutiny if the results are what they have been. Gerry shouldn't be a made man as he hasn't been like Hopkins was as a recruiter. He isn't going anywhere though JB would soon give praise to Donald Trump than discuss the criticism of his staff.
Non-trolling anger isn't wrong for some in our fanbase. The trolls who want to be negative can be ignored but our program isn't in a good place right now and some of the weight of that pyramid should fall on the man at the top.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I would agree recruiting went up when Mike Hopkins replaced Bernie Fine as lead assistant and started being the head of recruiting. Mike delivered a lot of studs.
Bernie's rep hasn't skyrocketed people are saying he did a better job at developing our big men to play well. It is a fact not an opinion.
Rak should not have take 4 years with his talent to get to where he was. We replaced our big man coach with a guard and moved guard coach to big men. That deserves scrutiny if the results are what they have been. Gerry shouldn't be a made man as he hasn't been like Hopkins was as a recruiter. He isn't going anywhere though JB would soon give praise to Donald Trump than discuss the criticism of his staff.
Non-trolling anger isn't wrong for some in our fanbase. The trolls who want to be negative can be ignored but our program isn't in a good place right now and some of the weight of that pyramid should fall on the man at the top.

Bernie was around forever. Hop has worked with the big men for 4 years. This is a very subjective argument. We've had other talented bigs under Fine that didn't develop a post game at all. Jeremy McNeil and Craig Forth never developed. Terrance Roberts and Darryl Watkins were two of the most talented bigs we have ever recruited, as talented as Rakeem Christmas, maybe more talented. They were the same frustrating players when they left Syracuse as the day they started. Bernie Fine was their"big man" coach.

 

[Alsacs]

Bernie was around forever. Hop has worked with the big men for 4 years. This is a very subjective argument. We've had other talented bigs under Fine that didn't develop a post game at all. Jeremy McNeil and Craig Forth never developed. Terrance Roberts and Darryl Watkins were two of the most talented bigs we have ever recruited, as talented as Rakeem Christmas, maybe more talented. They were the same frustrating players when they left Syracuse as the day they started. Bernie Fine was their"big man" coach.

All 4 of those guys played next to Hak Warrick who gave us the post offense we needed.
Forth and McNeil were 3 star kids who maxed out. Watkins was a solid role player. Who never got the ball but could do a little when he got it.Roberts hit the game winner versus Rutgers in 2006. he was a tease but had moments.

Jim Boeheim is a great coach but he has not adapted as much as he could. . He takes criticism like I do personally that is not good when you are public figure like he is. Last year's run to the Final Four covered up a lot of problems as right now our program is not in a good place.

 

[Cusefan0307]

All 4 of those guys played next to Hak Warrick who gave us the post offense we needed.
Forth and McNeil were 3 star kids who maxed out. Watkins was a solid role player. Who never got the ball but could do a little when he got it.Roberts hit the game winner versus Rutgers in 2006. he was a tease but had moments.

Jim Boeheim is a great coach but he has not adapted as much as he could. . He takes criticism like I do personally that is not good when you are public figure like he is. Last year's run to the Final Four covered up a lot of problems as right now our program is not in a good place.

I'm not talking about Boeheim here, I'm talking about Bernie Fine as related to Mike Hopkins. There's a legit faction of our fans that believe the reason our big's aren't good offensively is because Bernie Fine is not here.

That's fine that McNeil and Forth were 3 star recruits. So was Arinze. He developed. They did not. My point was Bernie was not some 'miracle' big man coach that people thought he was.

You say Roberts and Watkins were role players, but they weren't recruited to be role players. They were top 50 high school players that never developed here. People made excuses about Robert's knees and those same people will blantantly say Coleman has no post game because Bernie Fine is not here.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not talking about Boeheim here, I'm talking about Bernie Fine as related to Mike Hopkins. There's a legit faction of our fans the think the reason our big's aren't good offensively because Bernie Fine is not here.

That's fine that McNeil and Forth were 3 star recruits. So was Arinze. He developed. They did not. My point was Bernie was not some 'miracle' big man coach that people thought he was.

You say Roberts and Watkins were role players, but they weren't recruited to be role players. They were top 50 high school players, that never developed here. People made excuses about Robert's knees and those same people will blantantly say Coleman has no post game because Bernie Fine is not here.

I would say Fine did a good job with the bigs. I am not saying Mike Hopkins should be gone I would prefer he work with the guards and we bring in another coach who can help the bigs. I am way more frustrated with GMac than I am Hopkins. MH has earned his bones I honestly don't think Gerry has. I don't want to hash certain players but I don't think his work with the players and recruiting has been that great. If you said this JB he would explode at you even if your point is legit.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not talking about Boeheim here, I'm talking about Bernie Fine as related to Mike Hopkins. There's a legit faction of our fans the think the reason our big's aren't good offensively because Bernie Fine is not here.

That's fine that McNeil and Forth were 3 star recruits. So was Arinze. He developed. They did not. My point was Bernie was not some 'miracle' big man coach that people thought he was.

You say Roberts and Watkins were role players, but they weren't recruited to be role players. They were top 50 high school players, that never developed here. People made excuses about Robert's knees and those same people will blantantly say Coleman has no post game because Bernie Fine is not here.

Terrific post--spot on.

 

[RF2044]

I would say Fine did a good job with the bigs. I am not saying Mike Hopkins should be gone I would prefer he work with the guards and we bring in another coach who can help the bigs. I am way more frustrated with GMac than I am Hopkins. MH has earned his bones I honestly don't think Gerry has. I don't want to hash certain players but I don't think his work with the players and recruiting has been that great. If you said this JB he would explode at you even if your point is legit.

Alsacs, I agree with Cusefan0307 here -- the legend of Bernie Fine is significantly overrated. He was a lousy coach in virtually every respect.

Some of those players you mention--Seikaly, Etan, etc. were unbelievable athletes, which accounts for at least some of the players they eventually became. And I've told this before, but Etan's freshman year, he had zero fundamentals. None. He couldn't catch the ball, he had no idea about footwork--nothing. All he could do was run, dunk, and block shots, but otherwise had no idea how to play the game of basketball. The guy who worked with him every day after practice was Louis Orr, not Fine--teaching him the nuances of how to play against players his own size [Orr was 6-9]. Every day, he would teach Etan how to post up, how to "feel" the defender with his back, how to catch the ball--I'm not kidding, it was that basic.

Etan's huge jump between his freshman and sophomore years is way more attributable to Orr than Fine, IMO. That's not to say that Fine had no role, after all, he coached the kid, too--but his reputation as a big man guru is undeserved and not supported by the evidence of player development in my opinion.

 

[Alsacs]

Terrific post--spot on.

I don't say we need Bernie Fine. I will say we need more from our non-Mike Hopkins assistants. Autry atleast got us our 2 2017 commits. I don't think Gerry should be a made man. Our coaching staff these last 4 years have had more misses than makes for an elite program and that is the problem. The Final Four last year is the saving grace but being objective I see problems.

 

[RF2044]

I don't say we need Bernie Fine. I will say we need more from our non-Mike Hopkins assistants. Autry atleast got us our 2 2017 commits. I don't think Gerry should be a made man. Our coaching staff these last 4 years have had more misses than makes for an elite program and that is the problem. The Final Four last year is the saving grace but being objective I see problems.

I agree with all that--100% of it.

I was just responding to the stuff about Fine specifically.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree with all that--100% of it.

I was just responding to the stuff about Fine specifically.

I am not a Fine defender. I was talking about the assistants as a whole.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

-feeding the post.

-blocking out someone, anyone.

Year after year after year. Players come in. Players leave. The issues remain. Are we just the unluckiest program in the nation where we just keep ending up with guys that cant do these simple basketball tasks? At some point one has to look at the constant instead of the variables.

Or half court offense

 

[Ish88888]

-feeding the post.

-blocking out someone, anyone.

Year after year after year. Players come in. Players leave. The issues remain. Are we just the unluckiest program in the nation where we just keep ending up with guys that cant do these simple basketball tasks? At some point one has to look at the constant instead of the variables.

Unluckiest ? seriously? after reaching the final 4 with a team that took 4 months to figure it out? we were average at best all year . be happy the system allows for and rewards mediocrity all year and figuring it out in march. Also, these kids are talented, but the coaching does ZERO for their offensive game while in school. our half court offense and motion is monumentally bad.