David Aldridge has CJ leaving?

[tee1222]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

This is a black hole

This is a CJ Fair!

 

[Moontan]

Yeah, I'm trying to get that corrected.

Huh?

Once you "go Duke" you continue to puke.

 

[moqui]

Yeah, I'm trying to get that corrected.

I just assumed it meant Randy: God of the Ukelele

 

[cusetown1]

I just assumed it meant Randy: God of the Ukelele

Tiny Tim disagrees

 

[orangefan13]

Agree, the words CJ has declared for the draft all but disproves. If he knew something he would explain yada yada yada about inside sources. Not keep it vague like this as the first to break some news rumor.

CJ knows the cuse really needs him next year and is having a press conference. I seriously doubt he would have a press conference and keep the fans on their seat like that. He would have kept silent and just declared one day instead. CJ knows the cuse really needs him, and the money can wait a year.

As much as it leaves us on the edge of our seat hurting (big time in this case), I always am a fan for waiting for one to swoop in and save the day. I just hope my heart makes it through the next couple of days without collapsing.

 

[moqui]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

once you strip out the Igor-level hyperbole, this post has a lot of substance. I still think that, if he returns, Rak has a lot more game to show, even though he didn't make the sophomore leap I was expecting. I agree about Grant having a huge upside (but I remind Igor thatAll Americans Hakim Warrick and Wes Johnson are pretty steep bars to clear before being the best forward since Melo). And I wouldn't exactly call CJ a black hole, but he did tend to be a bit of a ball stopper at times (except in the final minutes of close games, when he tended toward the opposite).

Igor's greater point is correct: we are fine either way. JB has the system humming and we have quality players ready to step in at every position.

 

[orangefan13]

Dissagree about being fine either way. Not that I like to use the word fine with syracuse basketball, but CJ makes such a difference for us next year its not even funny.

And I am not talking about him averaging 14ppg where our second returning scorer averaged 4, nor leading the teams in rebounds or being our best isolation player, or a senior leader either.

Play dirty people -Aldridge doesn't care about CJ hes just doing his job. we REALLY REALLY do.

 

[RF2044]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

Yeah--CJ was terrible, and didn't fit into our team offensive concept at all. :bat:

That 'black hole' label was and is complete bunk.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

once you strip out the Igor-level hyperbole, this post has a lot of substance. I still think that, if he returns, Rak has a lot more game to show, even though he didn't make the sophomore leap I was expecting. I agree about Grant having a huge upside (but I remind Igor thatAll Americans Hakim Warrick and Wes Johnson are pretty steep bars to clear before being the best forward since Melo). And I wouldn't exactly call CJ a black hole, but he did tend to be a bit of a ball stopper at times (except in the final minutes of close games, when he tended toward the opposite).

Igor's greater point is correct: we are fine either way. JB has the system humming and we have quality players ready to step in at every position.

My only hesitation is that we return basically zero proven scorers if Fair does go. The talent's there, we'd just have no known quantities as high level performers.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Huh?

Once you "go Duke" you continue to puke.

cute

 

[cusetown1]

cute

Are you still with that girl who is a duke fan?

 

[orangefan13]

Did igor seriously say that. I seriously doubt sophmore grant is a better scorer then freshmen CJ was with or without CJ. And there is no way he matches sophmore CJ next year. No way.

Fair is our best returning isolation player, next to other isolation guys like Gbinije, Dajuan, Ennis and Patterson. And hes probably the slowest isolation scorer out of the bunch because he is learning how to use his body. That is so so so important to have and for setting up plays, I cannot stress it enough. He won't be able to do that in the nba next year anyway, he needs another year to develop it more. And hes our only forward who can isolate with the ball next year unless we throw Gbinije there.

Proven scorer or not you are talking about two completly different teams without CJ. Its not even close how much better we would be. CJ coming back is bigger then Flynn in 09-10, or Wes Johnson in 10-11, or rick jackson in 11-12, or Dion in this past year. All stats or draft numbers aside.

We have a very good club of 3rd pushing 2nd, and 4th scorering options next year, CJ would give us a second first/second option next to Gbinije. Come on CJ we need you!
Besides the trend is Cuse is really, really good every other year.

 

[moqui]

Yeah--CJ was terrible, and didn't fit into our team offensive concept at all. :bat:

That 'black hole' label was and is complete bunk.

maybe I'm misreading him, but I don't think that is what he is saying. I think he was referring to ball movement. CJ's assist rate of 4.4 was exceptionally low - look at our top scoring forwards for the last nine years (that's as far back as the Pomeroy individual stats go) and their assist rates:

2013 CJ Fair 4.4
2012 Kris Joseph 8.7
2011 Kris Joseph 12.9
2010 Wes Johnson 11.7
2009 Paul Harris 12.4
2008 Donte Greene 10.6
2007 Demetris Nichols 9.7
2006 Demetris Nichols 8.5
2005 Hakim Warrick 8.0

CJ does a lot of things well, but it is non-controversial to point out that sharing the ball is not one of them

 

[RF2044]

maybe I'm misreading him, but I don't think that is what he is saying. I think he was referring to ball movement. CJ's assist rate of 4.4 was exceptionally low - look at our top scoring forwards for the last nine years (that's as far back as the Pomeroy individual stats go) and their assist rates:

2013 CJ Fair 4.4
2012 Kris Joseph 8.7
2011 Kris Joseph 12.9
2010 Wes Johnson 11.7
2009 Paul Harris 12.4
2008 Donte Greene 10.6
2007 Demetris Nichols 9.7
2006 Demetris Nichols 8.5
2005 Hakim Warrick 8.0

CJ does a lot of things well, but it is non-controversial to point out that sharing the ball is not one of them

Not wracking up great passing / assist stats is a different thing entirely from being a "black hole," in basketball terms.

CJ displayed solid judgement, and often passed the ball back out, or swung it when he came out high to receive the ball. He also rarely took bad shots. That's the antithesis of a "black hole, and contrary to what Igor posted.

Nobody is comparing CJ to Scottie Pippen. One area where he can develop and show more versatility is with his ball handling and creating off of the bounce, for both himself and others. He got more comfortable doing this as the season went on. But the main reason CJ didn't compile more assists is that he is cautious with the ball. Its the same reason why he generally avoids making dumb turnovers, as well--he doesn't try to do too much or force plays that aren't there. Again, the opposite of a "black hole."

 

[CorduroyG]

maybe I'm misreading him, but I don't think that is what he is saying. I think he was referring to ball movement. CJ's assist rate of 4.4 was exceptionally low - look at our top scoring forwards for the last nine years (that's as far back as the Pomeroy individual stats go) and their assist rates:

2013 CJ Fair 4.4
2012 Kris Joseph 8.7
2011 Kris Joseph 12.9
2010 Wes Johnson 11.7
2009 Paul Harris 12.4
2008 Donte Greene 10.6
2007 Demetris Nichols 9.7
2006 Demetris Nichols 8.5
2005 Hakim Warrick 8.0

CJ does a lot of things well, but it is non-controversial to point out that sharing the ball is not one of them

big difference between saying someone isnt good at sharing the ball and calling him a black hole. if we had 1 other guy step up in the final 4 the way cj did we'd be national champs.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Are you still with that girl who is a duke fan?

yep

 

[moqui]

Not wracking up great passing / assist stats is a different thing entirely from being a "black hole," in basketball terms.

CJ displayed solid judgement, and often passed the ball back out, or swung it when he came out high to receive the ball. He also rarely took bad shots. That's the antithesis of a "black hole, and contrary to what Igor posted."

sure, sometimes he passed it back out, but more often he did not. The numbers don't lie - he is not even close to the mean of last few SU lead forwards. As I noted before, "black hole" goes too far, but he does have a tendency to be a ball stopper on a lot of possessions. He doesn't share the ball. That is non-controversial. It doesn't mean he is not a very good player.

 

[Gabjon]

sure, sometimes he passed it back out, but more often he did not. The numbers don't lie - he is not even close to the mean of last few SU lead forwards. As I noted before, "black hole" goes too far, but he does have a tendency to be a ball stopper on a lot of possessions. He doesn't share the ball. That is non-controversial. It doesn't mean he is not a very good player.

I agree! But that was his role on the team. He was on the finishing end of the plays/sets and was the best scorer on a bad shooting team. So he needed to shoot more than pass. Now how will that translate to the NBA who knows let's hope he becomes a very good defender on the NBA level.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Deano]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

Really - a black hole. The only black hole we have is you with posts like this and the many others targeted against our coach. Simply amazing how are allowed to post on this forum without getting banned.

 

[jordoo]

How could CJ get assists when he was often the only guy making shots? We were offensively challenged hard to blame that on our one consistent offensive player simply because we designed the offense for him to take shots out of iso's or spot up open looks.

 

[Francis03]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

 

[cuseincincy]

Wow! Lots of silly stuff in this thread. Igor says something controversial and negative and some of you freakout, others, believe it or not, have Igor's back to a small extent (been there myself once...just once!) "Freshman CJ Fair was better than a sophmore Jerami Grant will be"? :crazy: That's worse than the black hole comment. CJ is and has from the beginning. been the player I expected him to be. He's not a great player. He is a very good player who does many things well. Passes that lead to buckets apparently isn't one of them. That's never stood out to me but now that I think about it I can't really remember CJ ever making the extra pass for an easy bucket somewhere. Agreed that isn't his role, but at the same time that wasn't Green's, Joseph's or Johnson's role either. And DNic was a jump shooter for goodness sake. Its a fair criticism rolleyes but to call him a black hole is just an igoism (oops I think I meant igorism? ) The statement that " Fair is our best isolation player returning and he is also our SLOWEST isolation player and that is so so important to setting up plays...:blah: " Honestly not even sure what to do with this. Being slow in isolation is not usually a very good thing. I think maybe you were goign for "under control" instead of "slow" but not really the same thing. Typically though a player in isolation who is "under control" will pass more frequently out of it than CJ does. I look for Grant to show much more of this next year. If CJ leaves the team will obviously miss him. But that would mean much more playing time for Roberson which is not completely a bad thing. I'm also one who hasn't given up on Rak. His game is completely different from CJ's but there are things Rak can do athletically that CJ can't. And more time for Grant as the small forward is not a completely bad thing either. Grant seems to have CJ's feel for the nuances of the game but loads more athleticism and is a better shooter than CJ was until this year so he's ahead if that curve imo. Luckily, in my opinion its about 85% certain that CJ returns. That is a good thing for SU hoop. CJ, Grant and Roberson make a nice complementary set of forwards. Go Orange! Back to Back FF for the first time!

 

[orangefan13]

Wasn't going to comment, but just for the sake of argument.

1. I said freshmen fair could end up being a better scorer then sophmore grant I didn't say better overall player.
Fair had a knack to score off of movement at will as a freshmen and a sophmore, before finally moving to isolation as a jr.

2.you wrote Being slow in isolation is not usually a very good thing
Being able to slow things down in isolation can...
1. give more time to read the defensive movement...
2. give more time to run motion offense to pass out of.
3. give more time to force defenses to double team.
4.force teams to go zone.
5.help set up plays inside the paint instead of from the three point line when defenses get tough to beat off the dribble or pass through.
6. keep you from ever having to force things when you have that kind of isolation. Because you get inside when slowing isolation down and can bring it back out. As opposed to full speed where a shot is going up.
7.help you change ball direction for the better and spot holes in the defense that you don't catch at full speed.
Guys like Triche or Harris only dreamed of being able to back down their man at will.
Guys like Billy Edelin, Arinze Onuaku, Hakim Warrick had it at Cuse. Guys like Melo Anthony(even more in the pros then at the Cuse), Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol to name a few had it. Those are some pretty awesome names. Its a mature quality.
CJ is developing a slower isolation backdown game from the perimeter right now. Thats priceless. For comparison guys like KJO and Wes never had that. Very few SF's can do that from the perimeter. Takes a ton of skill.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if Gbinije and/or Dajuan also had some of that. That will only make things more tough for opponents.

3. If grant plays sf he would be on the perimeter 80% of the time. Grants dribble is much slower then Fairs,. Hes not creating a shot from all the way at the perimeter he will rarely get by the freethrow line. He has taken maybe 2 guys all year off the dribble from that far out, and they were not good defenders at all.
He was 6 for 15 from three though which I admit suprised me. Never knew that. But ,how many of those were semi contested instead of wide open? Maybe 2. And I still question the speed of his release. He isn't getting a shot off nearly as fast as southerland. If he can get a open look once in a while though, thats all that counts.
Also Fair shot 30-64 from three last year. thats pretty darn good. Scary thinking that can be back next year.

 

[cuseinseattle]

we're fine either way. if he leaves xmas really steps up. grant is the best forward in the program since carmelo., some of the kids can play too. cj fair was a black hole.

I don't even think you could believe this. You are baiting me and I refuse to allow you to ruin the day I found out Duke and UNC are coming to the dome next year.