Dear american football... | Page 17 | Syracusefan.com

Dear american football...

It's not about believing, it's math.

15-20% of the American population are avid college hoops fans. You simply cannot get to a figure that is as large as MLB and NBA if the rabid interest is only centered in Louisville, Lawrence and Durham.

Keep believing what you want, but there are 5, national, major sports in the U.S and college hoops is one of them.

Where do you get your 15-20% numbers?

Per the Harris poll, 3% say college basketball is their favorite sport. Seeing that NFL CFB, and the NBA are being played throughout the CBB season. 15-20% "avid" seems high if those people prefer those over CBB.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10354114/harris-poll-nfl-most-popular-mlb-2nd
 
If you're going to mock quotes you should at least not get them entirely wrong.

The point is that more or less kids playing a sport does not necessarily lead to more or less adults watching a sport on television.


Fair enough. Seems just as obvious.

Until those kids become adults.
 
Agreed. And unless something has changed since I was at SU, the most hated man in the Dome any given Saturday is the dude in the red shirt who walks out to signal when a TV break begins and ends. That dude took so much heat from the student section when I was there because we just wanted to get back to the freaking game.

The difference is that he only appeared during the big games in your era.

Now he's striding out there making us suffer through four hours to see Tulane.
 
Pyle said:
3. Kids popularity. Youth sports mean nothing. Kids also like skateboarding, bubble yum, Yu-Gi-Oh(?), Disney singers, and the midway at the state fair. Tell me how many of those kids will be doing any of those activities as adults?

Too much to respond to everything but you're off on #3. Means a lot. Those kids will be future adults. The soccer crowd is still a young one. And these kids aren't just casual players or fans. They are kids who a few years ago played the Saturday morning ymca youth league. Now the big growth is in the players playing club teams or ODP or academies. Serious soccer players and fans. The trend is definitely up and will continue.
 
Agreed. And unless something has changed since I was at SU, the most hated man in the Dome any given Saturday is the dude in the red shirt who walks out to signal when a TV break begins and ends. That dude took so much heat from the student section when I was there because we just wanted to get back to the freaking game.

The most hated man in the Dome since 2005 and still to this day has got to be the little engine that could.
 
Basing it on TV ratings for one game is much more of a stretch, imo. Here's reg season numbers.

"TNT’s Thursday night games held steady compared to last year, averaging 2.0 million viewers. The network’s complete 52-game slate, including Monday and Tuesday night games, averaged 1.9 million — down from 2.0 million last year and 2.5 million in 2011-12, and its least-viewed season since 2009-10 (1.7M)."

"ESPN’s industry-leading coverage of the men’s 2013-14 college basketball regular season was the network’s most-viewed and highest-rated ever, averaging 1,454,000 viewers"

ESPN's highest rated CBB season ever didn't compare to a down NBA season.

The ESPN average is weighed down by some real shat show matchups like 90% of the AAC games for example.
 
Too much to respond to everything but you're off on #3. Means a lot. Those kids will be future adults. The soccer crowd is still a young one. And these kids aren't just casual players or fans. They are kids who a few years ago played the Saturday morning ymca youth league. Now the big growth is in the players playing club teams or ODP or academies. Serious soccer players and fans. The trend is definitely up and will continue.

I disagree completely, playing and watching are two different things. Lots has been discussed as what is boring and what is not on TV. Well let me tell you, I wrestled for 6 years, 7-12. I was very serious, trained all year, sucked weight like nobody's business, lifted, ran, etc. I've watched all of 4 wrestling matches in the last 20 years because it's not exciting to watch on TV. Neither is soccer.
 
The ESPN average is weighed down by some real shat show matchups like 90% of the AAC games for example.

Well...if you wanna go that route the NBA slates were packed with HORRIBLE Knicks and Lakers games all year.
 
Where do you get your 15-20% numbers?

Per the Harris poll, 3% say college basketball is their favorite sport. Seeing that NFL CFB, and the NBA are being played throughout the CBB season. 15-20% "avid" seems high if those people prefer those over CBB.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10354114/harris-poll-nfl-most-popular-mlb-2nd

I stated earlier in the thread that polls that ask only about favorite sport aren't particularly meaningful. Gun to my head I might say that football is my favorite sport, but I also rabidly follow baseball, basketball and hockey. So what does it matter that I make a forced choice to pick one? Doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan of the others.

I noted my numbers earlier today.
 
Fair enough. Seems just as obvious.

Until those kids become adults.

But those kids ARE adults now.

Soccer has been either the biggest, or nearly the biggest, youth participatory sport for decades now.

Football has been losing youth participants steadily.

Look, a LOT more people run than play any team sport, but no one watches marathons on TV.

Not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp.
 
We seriously need training camp to start. We are arguing about soccer...:noidea:
 
I stated earlier in the thread that polls that ask only about favorite sport aren't particularly meaningful. Gun to my head I might say that football is my favorite sport, but I also rabidly follow baseball, basketball and hockey. So what does it matter that I make a forced choice to pick one? Doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan of the others.

I noted my numbers earlier today.

That's a valid point.
You noted the numbers, but I don't believe you ever stated where you got the numbers from. I was just curious.
 
NBC just signed a $250m deal for EPL last fall. Now, ESPN could certainly go after Bundesliga or La Liga, of course.

Kind of a landmark thing of sorts but at least 1 EPL game per week is now broadcast live on a main channel. I don't have cable but I get NBC main and if you get any secondary NBC channels you have access to all games. I remember watching replays of EPL games on comcast sports and odd channels 15 years ago and that's all we got. Went from there to fox soccer as a subsrciption channel and now is avail with no subsription needed.

ESPN, Fox, CBS or one of the others should pick up any of the other major leagues. I'd consider Serie A as the sense of pride in most Italian Americans is strong and they still feel connected to the old country. Buddy of mine is from the Bronx and will point out he is Napolitano. He's got a very fleeting interest in soccer except when it come to Napoli. Another family friend is the same as it pertains to Juventus. Fox could likely pick up Serie A and make a killing off the YES network or other areas with large Italian demographics.
 
Ok

I love my club team Dynamo Kiev (I know haha. *who the hell are they*). But watching pro leagues is nothing compared to watching your national team... This will also happen when someone goes and randomly selects an EPL team. You will never have that emotional attachment you had to the USMNT. MLS, if you want to pick a team there, you will still be missing the other players on the USMNT.

A lot of this is based on one pure concept Nationalism
 
Well...if you wanna go that route the NBA slates were packed with HORRIBLE Knicks and Lakers games all year.

People still love those horrible teams. I'd rather watch the sixers vs the bucks than UCF vs anybody. Only Marsh watches that mess.
 
I honestly don't know the context of this back and forth, I've somehow missed it in this thread, but it should be noted the US was expected to finish 4th out of 4 teams in the group. The fact we finished 2nd is a minor miracle.

Absolutely -- and the US performed well. My only point was that a legit World Cup contender is going to crush us most of the time. Portugal was ranked wherever they were ranked but they definitely weren't playing at that level in this tournament. And Ghana may have been considered better than us but I don't think I heard anyone mention them as a team that could go deep in this thing. I'll defer to the experts on whether we're drastically better than we were in '94 or even 2010 -- and if we are that's great. I just don't think you could consider us a contender after the Germany/Belgium games.
 
The bottom line is there has not been a soccer league for americans to watch and follow until very recently. This is the only way the game can grow in America, we need a product we can support and follow. Although soccer has technically been around for a very long time, there has been no way for americans to watch or support soccer. Until recently, it was nearly impossible to watch soccer from other countries, these new television contracts has made soccer available to everyone. As other people have stated and you can see below, the MLS is still in its infancy compared to other major sports in america. The MLS was finally created in 1996 because FIFA mandated that we create a soccer league in order to host the world cup in 1994 as part of the bidding process. As the MLS continues to grow and become even more popular, they will have more money at their disposal. As the money comes in, they will be able to pay players higher wages which will in turn lead to better quality soccer, which will also bring more interest and fan support. Also, this will provide american children with dreams of playing soccer for a living, increasing the likelihood that these youth children playing soccer will continue to play soccer instead of other sports. Its a cyclical cycle. I completely understand if people don't like or appreciate the game, but to completely write it off because you are not a fan is asinine. It is growing and well I do not believe it can come close to football, I do believe that it has every possibility of eventually passing the NBA. Although I am not certain that it will pass NBA viewership, I believe it will pass baseball within the next 10-12 years. Granted it is not scientific stats, but most kids my age (22-26) that I know do not even like baseball. I am really the only one in my group of friends that follows the games at all, and recently I have become less and less a fan. Their is an overload of games, very few action, and the games are lasting over 3 hours. Unless you are at the game, it has become very hard to follow due to the slow pace of games.

NFL founded 1920 (94 years)
MLB founded 1869 (145 years)
NBA founded 1946 (68 years)
NHL founded 1917 (97 years)
MLS founded 1996 (18 years)
 
Pyle said:
I disagree completely, playing and watching are two different things. Lots has been discussed as what is boring and what is not on TV. Well let me tell you, I wrestled for 6 years, 7-12. I was very serious, trained all year, sucked weight like nobody's business, lifted, ran, etc. I've watched all of 4 wrestling matches in the last 20 years because it's not exciting to watch on TV. Neither is soccer.

They already watch. Young kids and the teens. Most know every team and every player. We aren't talking rec league kids. These are serious players and their numbers are booming. When this generation is older, they'll watch a heck of a lot more soccer than my generation did or any generation since.
 
I love these threads every World Cup. The same things always come up:

1 - There are a few people that have an irrational hatred of the sport and go out of their way to bash it every four years.
2 - The progress of the sport in this country is ignored because it hasn't become as popular as the NFL.
3 - There are inevitably suggestions to change the rules of the game, usually made by the people who have also stated that they'll never watch an MLS game.

There's obviously been a ton of progress in the sport over the last two decades in our country. In 2002, the majority of people didn't even know the Cup was going on -- now, it is advertised and shown everywhere you look. The MLS has greatly increased it's quality of play and has made some very smart expansion moves. The league will only continue to improve with the new development academies and uber-rich investors.

Right now it's an exciting time to be a soccer fan in the states. 15 years ago, there is no way that players like Maurice Edu, Michael Parkhurst, Landon Donovan, Clarence Goodson, or Brad Evans get cut from the national team. The next step is having players like Bradley being the standard for even making team, not being the guy running show.

Will soccer ever surpass football, basketball, baseball, or hockey? Who knows, but the great thing about this country is that, with a third of a billion people and an enormous economy, it doesn't need to surpass any of them, we can support more major league athletics. But there's a reason that the sport is far and away the most popular sport in the world. 90 years ago, people probably didn't think baseball would overtake boxing, 70 years ago, people didn't think football would overtake baseball, and 30 years ago no one had any idea that NASCAR would be as immensely popular as it is now. The landscapes change and I think that soccer in this country is on a great trajectory.
 
[
Not for nothing, but the sales of FIFA '14 (Video game) destroyed sales of Madden. Absolutely destroyed them. There's a huge interest in soccer. Great, welcome renaissance. Best way to gauge interest is to see what folks are spending their money on.
are those sales numbers from the whole world or just US?
 
One other thing to illustrate how rapidly MLS has grown, it's ranked as the 7th best pro league in the world: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865578830/MLS-ranked-7th-best-soccer-league-in-the-world-by-Sporting-Intelligence.html?pg=all&ref=https://www.google.com/

Not bad for a league that has only existed for 20 years, and which, frankly, I thought would fail.
That's just one opinion. Pro soccer has existed in the US & Canada for (nearly) 60 years. I attended may NASL games in Rochester, met many of my boy-hood soccer heroes, watched tons of games on TV (Cosmos, Lancers and ABC's coverage) and even met the NASL commissioner (his kids went to SU).

Here's the ranking from that article. I don't agree with all of it, but it's an interesting exercise

image.jpg
 
Reasons I can't get into soccer.

1. Clock counts upward instead of down. (Hard to gauge how much time's left when in "extra time")
2. Extra time is at the discretion of a ref and is not called overtime.
3. The clock continues to run when a player is "injured".
4. Players who are "injured" walk off the field then immediately return.
5. Foreigners playing/coaching for Team USA. (At least 5 players were born and/or raised outside of the US, excluding military kids)
6. Poor ball control with incessant turnovers.
7. More luck than skill is involved when scoring.
8. The best athletes play football, basketball, and baseball.
9. There's no dominant professional league for the sport meaning talent is thinned across the world's vast amount of pro leagues.
10. FIFA is a poorly run and corrupt organization which allows the World Cup into undeserving countries like Russia and Qatar.
 
While I understand your sentiment and we probably agree on the end result, you can't compare total soccer participation against just HS football participation. That's disingenuous. Comparing HS soccer participation to HS football participation is closer to apples to apples, and you will find much more participation in HS football than soccer. In 2012/2013, there were 441K boys playing HS soccer. However, that's more or less because most schools don't limit football participation where they may limit soccer participation. Even that said, look at the stands during HS soccer and football games and tell me which is more popular.

My point wasn't to compare the two. There are obviously far fewer recreational Football players because there are "barriers" to entry after HS. Like talent, cost of equipment, etc.

The point was to illustrate that even if you added ALL youth participation as well as semi pro leagues, college, and the NFL along with the CFL. The total number of football players pales in comparison to soccer and it still doesn't translate to ratings in soccer.

And again you can't compare the WC to any other sporting event.
 

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