Dear american football...

[TheCusian]

T.O.T.A.L.

If you use that metric, MLB is x5 more popular than the NFL. Baseball has tons of games per season, while soccer and football is way smaller.

Average attendance per game is a truer metric.

Also MLS is 3rd highest attendance of any US based sport: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

 

[Bayside44]

If you use that metric, MLB is x5 more popular than the NFL. Baseball has tons of games per season, while soccer and football is way smaller.

Average attendance per game is a truer metric.

Also MLS is 3rd highest attendance of any US based sport: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

Have to throw ticket price in your math. Costs a heck of a lot more to see for instance the Caps or Wiz than the United.

 

[Upstate]

Lets compare it to AA ball, I bet the Trenton Thunder (Yankees) out draw the RedBulls in total attendance.

Red Bulls have a higher attendance than Trenton with less than 1/3 of the games the Thunder have. Keep trying, though.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Red Bulls have a higher attendance than Trenton with less than 1/3 of the games the Thunder have. Keep trying, though.

Um ok.

I don't really care but someone else said it, so I threw that out there.

But best as I can tell, RedBull play 16 at home getting just less than 20k, so at that #...the thunder win. They seem to finish each season around 380k.

Somebody will probably try and add in all the fancy matches v euros or something to claim a victory, but that's irrelevant.

Pretty sad #s.

And for the record, I plan on asking STO where I should sit at their stadium when I take the family, apparently it's really nice and a good time. It's sorta in a bad area, but I guess it's more like an abandoned area than anything else.

 

[Bayside44]

Not really. You can easily find Wiz tickets for $10 or $20 bucks. Admittedly, I've never looked for Caps tickets, but Wiz seasons start at $15 and Caps at $32. DC United doesn't have season ticket info up on their sites, but single games start at $25. The price swings aren't too crazy outside of the major sports markets.

The cheapest single game lower bowl ticket for the Caps is $117, the Wiz don't have their single games up yet, looks to be the cheapest lower bowl in a package is around $60. My club seats two seasons ago to see the Knicks in DC were around $150 per. For the Nats, a premium game club is around $80 - have to sign a contract for $55 tickets.

If you want to sit in the rafters sure, lower sections are way different.

 

[jekelish]

The cheapest single game lower bowl ticket for the Caps is $117, the Wiz don't have their single games up yet, looks to be the cheapest lower bowl in a package is around $60. My club seats two seasons ago to see the Knicks in DC were around $150 per. For the Nats, a premium game club is around $80 - have to sign a contract for $55 tickets.

If you want to sit in the rafters sure, lower sections are way different.

But meanwhile, FC Dallas is anywhere from $19-$95, while the Texas Rangers are between $14-$132 for a single game. So the prices really aren't THAT far apart.

 

[Bayside44]

But meanwhile, FC Dallas is anywhere from $19-$95, while the Texas Rangers are between $14-$132 for a single game. So the prices really aren't THAT far apart.

Right - but, the baseball stadium is 2x the size and there are a lot more games.

No one is doubting that soccer has it's fans and support. It's also priced to move (which is a smart thing).

 

[billsin01]

T.O.T.A.L.

Yes this is the point -- avg attendance is great but if you're going to brG about avg attendance you have to play as many or more games. It's like the university of michigan out-drawing the Yankees and Red Sox combined in their 8 or 9 home dates every year. It's an impressive number but it's about as apples and oranges as it gets.

 

[billsin01]

But meanwhile, FC Dallas is anywhere from $19-$95, while the Texas Rangers are between $14-$132 for a single game. So the prices really aren't THAT far apart.

They prices are comparable in baseball but the attendance figures dwarf the MLS. So I'm not sure the point of that discussion.

 

[jekelish]

They prices are comparable in baseball but the attendance figures dwarf the MLS. So I'm not sure the point of that discussion.

The point was people kept saying "the attendance is high in MLS because the tickets are so much cheaper." That's simply not true. They are really no cheaper than MLB.

 

[billsin01]

This is the problem with this thread. People can post a ton of information on how the sport is gaining traction in the US, including in its domestic leagues, but there is this sub-group of people who aren't fans of the sport that will go out of their way to bash it, just say "I don't buy it" when the progress of the sport in this country is discussed, or call all of the facts posted in this thread "hyperbole". It's really bizarre. The strangest thing is, the people who don't see the progress are completely ignorant about the game and it's current news but feel the need to continue to compare it to double-A baseball.

But wait -- I was comparing the MLS as AA or AAA compared to the EPL. How is this wrong? I'd actually argue that it's a compliment if sorts given the absurd level of the EPL. I'm not trying to hammer the MLS at all as much as I'm trying to point out that it is not close to the EPL in talent or level of play. Please explain how that is wrong.

Also -- I'm cool with the MLS and soccer growing. Saying it will grow exponentially is almost guaranteed to be hyperbole due simply to basic math and how many people already follow/participate in soccer. But the point people have tried to make here is that it is somehow already as popular as established leagues and will take over everything but the nfl (although jake apparently thinks even the nfl will be surpassed). I simply don't see anything statistically or anecdotally to convince me if that. I don't think that makes me ignorant.

 

[billsin01]

The point was people kept saying "the attendance is high in MLS because the tickets are so much cheaper." That's simply not true. They are really no cheaper than MLB.

But baseball is 81 home dates a year. For MLS teams to draw that number for that many dates they'd have to alter ticket prices. And, regardless, tix are much cheaper than nba or nhl, leagues with more comparable schedules and attendance.

 

[jekelish]

But baseball is 81 home dates a year. For MLS teams to draw that number for that many dates they'd have to alter ticket prices. And, regardless, tix are much cheaper than nba or nhl, leagues with more comparable schedules and attendance.

Much cheaper, eh? Sticking with Dallas area teams, the cost of a Mavs single game ticket last year, on average, was $52. Stars games have recently ranged anywhere from $9-$110 in recent years (last year the highest priced "premium game" tickets were $145).

People with an anti-soccer agenda keep changing their parameters, because every time evidence is being offered that it's not a fluke that people are going to MLS games, there are no bargain bin prices, any more than other leagues, etc.

 

[Upstate]

Um ok.

I don't really care but someone else said it, so I threw that out there.

But best as I can tell, RedBull play 16 at home getting just less than 20k, so at that #...the thunder win. They seem to finish each season around 380k.

Somebody will probably try and add in all the fancy matches v euros or something to claim a victory, but that's irrelevant.

Pretty sad #s.

And for the record, I plan on asking STO where I should sit at their stadium when I take the family, apparently it's really nice and a good time. It's sorta in a bad area, but I guess it's more like an abandoned area than anything else.

So, if the Red Bulls get 16 home games to get to 380k, and the Thunder get 71 to get to 360k, then the Thunder win? How does that make any sense? Valiant effort, again. That's not even counting the RBs playoff attendance, which is 25% higher,drawing 25k per game.

Red Bull Arena is gorgeous. Easy to get to via the PATH. Feels like it's in the middle of nowhere in a densely populated area.

 

[KaiserUEO]

So, if the Red Bulls get 16 home games to get to 380k, and the Thunder get 71 to get to 360k, then the Thunder win? How does that make any sense? Valiant effort, again. That's not even counting the RBs playoff attendance, which is 25% higher,drawing 25k per game.

Red Bull Arena is gorgeous. Easy to get to via the PATH. Feels like it's in the middle of nowhere in a densely populated area.

Because its AA ball, in a not starved for baseball area...roughly an hour from the Yankees, mets and phillies.

And if u only play 20 or so times a year as a pro sport, u should at least outdraw a certain college hoop team.

We can have kinds of fun with #s, the NY Rangers just put 40k in Yankee Stadium 2x!! In the same week!!! In sub zero temperature!!!

This is a useless exercise any way, soccer is #5 on the totem pole, will be 4 a while and as Scooch says 1x every 4 years its ratings, like that of women's Olympic figure skating, actually show that it grabs the nation attention before slinking off to the history books.

I love the World Cup. I like the EPL & Champions...Man City is my team, I've watched the Euro, it's all good, but it is what it is.

American arrogance will keep it that way.

 

[DeGrozz]

But wait -- I was comparing the MLS as AA or AAA compared to the EPL. How is this wrong? I'd actually argue that it's a compliment if sorts given the absurd level of the EPL. I'm not trying to hammer the MLS at all as much as I'm trying to point out that it is not close to the EPL in talent or level of play. Please explain how that is wrong.

Honest questions -- have you watched much EPL? Especially teams that didn't finish top-6? Also, how much MLS have you watched this season? I just find it strange that a guy who calls the sport boring and arbitrary has seen enough of it to really be an accurate judge of talent between the two leagues.

 

[Stevenson]

Maybe the MLS can take UCONN

 

[Bayside44]

The point was people kept saying "the attendance is high in MLS because the tickets are so much cheaper." That's simply not true. They are really no cheaper than MLB.

The most expensive Nats tickets is $352 dollars. The most expensive United ticket is $65. You want to throw out the club seats and behind the dugouts is $97. And DC had the rep of the best World Cup town ratings (and lack of work) wise.

 

[OrangePA]

But those kids ARE adults now.

Soccer has been either the biggest, or nearly the biggest, youth participatory sport for decades now.

Football has been losing youth participants steadily.

Look, a LOT more people run than play any team sport, but no one watches marathons on TV.

Not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp.

I'm firmly convinced that the popularity of NFL Football is betting - in all its forms.

Everybody, it seems, as money on the games whether in a parlay, office pool, or fantasy league.

Take out betting and the NFL loses a lot of appeal.

 

[OrangePA]

The bottom line is there has not been a soccer league for americans to watch and follow until very recently. This is the only way the game can grow in America, we need a product we can support and follow. Although soccer has technically been around for a very long time, there has been no way for americans to watch or support soccer. Until recently, it was nearly impossible to watch soccer from other countries, these new television contracts has made soccer available to everyone. As other people have stated and you can see below, the MLS is still in its infancy compared to other major sports in america. The MLS was finally created in 1996 because FIFA mandated that we create a soccer league in order to host the world cup in 1994 as part of the bidding process. As the MLS continues to grow and become even more popular, they will have more money at their disposal. As the money comes in, they will be able to pay players higher wages which will in turn lead to better quality soccer, which will also bring more interest and fan support. Also, this will provide american children with dreams of playing soccer for a living, increasing the likelihood that these youth children playing soccer will continue to play soccer instead of other sports. Its a cyclical cycle. I completely understand if people don't like or appreciate the game, but to completely write it off because you are not a fan is asinine. It is growing and well I do not believe it can come close to football, I do believe that it has every possibility of eventually passing the NBA. Although I am not certain that it will pass NBA viewership, I believe it will pass baseball within the next 10-12 years. Granted it is not scientific stats, but most kids my age (22-26) that I know do not even like baseball. I am really the only one in my group of friends that follows the games at all, and recently I have become less and less a fan. Their is an overload of games, very few action, and the games are lasting over 3 hours. Unless you are at the game, it has become very hard to follow due to the slow pace of games.

NFL founded 1920 (94 years)
MLB founded 1869 (145 years)
NBA founded 1946 (68 years)
NHL founded 1917 (97 years)
MLS founded 1996 (18 years)

Until fairly recently, with the advent of USA access to EPL, La Liga, Serie A etc, Americans, for years and years have assessed soccer on the basis of what they see while attending the games of their kids - a kick and chase game that lacks the skill, possession and beauty of the game.

Americans for years have watched 22 kids swarm and swat at a ball and have come to believe that that is the game the rest of the world loves.

And that is entirely untrue - a completely misguided understanding of what the game actually is.

Now that Americans are seeing high quality soccer with tremendous possession, tremendous skill and tremendous athleticism, they are learning that the game is not what they watch on weekends at the local school field.

And that along with the continued growth of MLS is what will change everything in this country - it's happening now.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The most expensive Nats tickets is $352 dollars. The most expensive United ticket is $65. You want to throw out the club seats and behind the dugouts is $97. And DC had the rep of the best World Cup town ratings (and lack of work) wise.

Measuring cost of a game by the most expensive ticket is not the experience of most fans.

 

[billsin01]

Honest questions -- have you watched much EPL? Especially teams that didn't finish top-6? Also, how much MLS have you watched this season? I just find it strange that a guy who calls the sport boring and arbitrary has seen enough of it to really be an accurate judge of talent between the two leagues.

Zero and zero. You got me. So is there not a massive talent disparity between the two leagues?

 

[billsin01]

Much cheaper, eh? Sticking with Dallas area teams, the cost of a Mavs single game ticket last year, on average, was $52. Stars games have recently ranged anywhere from $9-$110 in recent years (last year the highest priced "premium game" tickets were $145).

People with an anti-soccer agenda keep changing their parameters, because every time evidence is being offered that it's not a fluke that people are going to MLS games, there are no bargain bin prices, any more than other leagues, etc.

No anti-soccer agenda here. I swear if I have anything it's an anti-sports agenda since I think people take sports way too seriously in general. But the last few times I took my kids to a caps game it was close to $70 a ticket. I just looked and saw $30 field-level seats relatively close to midfield for the united. I guess that's anecdotal but at least in dc it's not close. It IS close vs the bats but they are trying to fill 81 home dates. Am I anti-soccer for saying that's a huge difference? I guess that makes me anti-football for suggesting they wouldn't get 70k or whatever if they played 81 home dates every year.

 

[Millhouse]

Until fairly recently, with the advent of USA access to EPL, La Liga, Serie A etc, Americans, for years and years have assessed soccer on the basis of what they see while attending the games of their kids - a kick and chase game that lacks the skill, possession and beauty of the game. Americans for years have watched 22 kids swarm and swat at a ball and have come to believe that that is the game the rest of the world loves. And that is entirely untrue - a completely misguided understanding of what the game actually is. Now that Americans are seeing high quality soccer with tremendous possession, tremendous skill and tremendous athleticism, they are learning that the game is not what they watch on weekends at the local school field. And that along with the continued growth of MLS is what will change everything in this country - it's happening now.

Games like this don't help though. It's a good 0-0 game but they're still flipping a coin right now

 

[MadNY3]

I'm firmly convinced that the popularity of NFL Football is betting - in all its forms.

Everybody, it seems, as money on the games whether in a parlay, office pool, or fantasy league.

Take out betting and the NFL loses a lot of appeal.

Dead on. It is a BIG part of it.