Decision on Dome in 2 Years

[TheCusian]

The point on maintenance costs is still valid.

Right. My point was more - let's not write off the idea because it was a bad idea in the 80's. It still might be now - but I'd run the numbers anyways.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Ultimately, I think they are going to pick #2. Everyone has pretty much ditched the air-inflated system. With minny and the BC domes failing, its not a matter of if but when (even if we replace it with a new one). They have already produced a report with the economic and logistical consequences of a roof failure.

They could build a new dome, but thats only is SU gets a significant subsidy from the state (much like what was floating around earlier this year).

The Dome, honestly, is a fine venue. Throw some bricks up, plant some trees or something, replace the roof, ADD REAL SEATING, redo all of the luxury boxes so that they are you know, luxury. Blow out one side of the dome to add a new annex/atrium with updated media, locker room, lounge/bar, HOF areas etc. Boom done.

 

[cpatrocks]

HVAC will not be happening. Instalation of Carrier equip. would have been free with the original dome construction, but SU powers did not want to pay for the power and upkeep costs, can not see that this would have changed.

 

[xc84]

The point on maintenance costs is still valid.

I think it was more the operating (electricity) costs which are worse with the fabric roof than a fixed hard structure. I agree with The Cusian, it will be looked at again and if the choice is to replace the existing roof with a non-fabric one, it could be do-able.

 

[upperdeck]

How are you going to jam 4-6,000 LAX fans into the IPF during games?

Im not worried about any fans watching at all if it means getting a better Dome out of the deal. have SU play at Cornell if they need to. 5K or people for 5-6 games doesnt really add up to much revenue, thats not even 1 Bball game. When BBall wad done last year Lax had 4 home games left and a playoff game. We dont really know what the IPF could do with temp seating and netting. Michigan did it for Lax games last year. is ours that much smaller?

 

[xc84]

Im not worried about any fans watching at all if it means getting a better Dome out of the deal.

It won't mean a better dome. Lax will just play outside...no need to have games inside.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think it is a lot more that that. I think he is also referring to costs and how the overall costs mesh with the primary goals of the university. I also don't think Skytop is that bad an idea. First, some students live there already. Second, SU owns land there... a lot. 3rd, its location is conducive to access from 481 with a new ramp. 4th . It could use existing Manley parking (with shuttles or walkways) + additional lots could be built. I prefer to keep it where it is but I don't think Skytop is much of a step down as it has some pros which the current site does not.

I could be crazy, but I don't think SU wants to be in the arena management business. I think they would prefer to have someone build and manage a nice new stadium for them. "Primary goals of the university" also includes protecting the endowment, which took a pretty big hit a few years ago with the stock market crash.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Im not worried about any fans watching at all if it means getting a better Dome out of the deal. have SU play at Cornell if they need to. 5K or people for 5-6 games doesnt really add up to much revenue, thats not even 1 Bball game. When BBall wad done last year Lax had 4 home games left and a playoff game. We dont really know what the IPF could do with temp seating and netting. Michigan did it for Lax games last year. is ours that much smaller?

Michigan's Oosterbaan Field House was built with sideline and endzone seating to accomodate 1000 people.

That's 1000 more seats then our IPF will have room for.

 

[xc84]

I could be crazy, but I don't think SU wants to be in the arena management business. I think they would prefer to have someone build and manage a nice new stadium for them. "Primary goals of the university" also includes protecting the endowment, which took a pretty big hit a few years ago with the stock market crash.

I agree they may not want to be in the arena management business but they may not have a choice. I don't think they could use much of their endowment, if any, for a stadium though they do have funds besides endowment. I used to hep manage it a while back.

 

[Millhouse]

HVAC will not be happening. Instalation of Carrier equip. would have been free with the original dome construction, but SU powers did not want to pay for the power and upkeep costs, can not see that this would have changed.

lots of those powers that be are long gone

 

[longtimefan]

lots of those powers that be are long gone

But the numbers may not be any better.

Plus, there's the question of how many days would AC be needed?

 

[orangefog]

But the numbers may not be any better.

Plus, there's the question of how many days would AC be needed?

With regard to the HVAC system. Tell Carrier that we plan to retrofit an HVAC system in the Carrier Dome. Tell them that we would love to have Carrier donate the system, otherwise we will entertain other HVAC manufacturers that might be interested in the advertising advantages of being the choice for HVAC for the Carrier Dome.

 

[Stern]

Building something on the Kennedy Square lot is the future and the best choice long term in my opinion. To me any other option is putting a band-aid on the problem. We all love the Dome but we have to be realistic about things.

1) Getting off campus provides much more land and the ability to build a state of the art venue that will last a very long time
2) Doing some sort of joint venture/partnership with Onondaga County and SU spreads out the cost of the construction and operation of the building.
3) Getting out of the Dome allows for new naming rights on this building and bring in revenue
4) Improved parking. Parking for the current Dome isn't ideal (yet not as bad as some say it is either) and doing something from scratch would be an upgrade long-term. I mean why fix up the Dome if you don't fix things like parking?
5) SU would now have a prime piece of real estate on campus where the Dome currently stands to do what they please with

It just makes too much sense to move off campus. The new chancellor and the powers can say "its about the students first and foremost"...not buying that for a second. This will come down to money. Where they get the most bang for their buck and I think moving off campus provides that. Plus, lets be honest these students don't show up in force for football, lax, or any woman's sports at the Dome. Your gonna bend over for backwards for them? Does he have to say it publicly...yes. But I think he is saying it with a wink and a nod. This will come down to money and how SU can maximize the biggest profit at the end of the day. And to me its being part of a group to have a new building off campus in that Kennedy Square area. It's not like they would build the thing in Cicero...its like 5-10 min from where the Dome is now.

 

[SUbear]

With regard to the HVAC system. Tell Carrier that we plan to retrofit an HVAC system in the Carrier Dome. Tell them that we would love to have Carrier donate the system, otherwise we will entertain other HVAC manufacturers that might be interested in the advertising advantages of being the choice for HVAC for the Carrier Dome.

I think the equipment would be the least of their worries, because you are probably correct that Carrier would not want a competitor installed.
However costs of operation and upkeep can still be significant, then there is the question of how many use days for Air are needed.
Personally would enjoy climate control for those muggy early season games, but just not sure if it would be economically justified.

 

[xc84]

I think the equipment would be the least of their worries, because you are probably correct that Carrier would not want a competitor installed.
However costs of operation and upkeep can still be significant, then there is the question of how many use days for Air are needed.
Personally would enjoy climate control for those muggy early season games, but just not sure if it would be economically justified.

That would be a riot to threaten Carrier with installing a different brand of A/C.

 

[javadoc]

I think it was more the operating (electricity) costs which are worse with the fabric roof than a fixed hard structure. I agree with The Cusian, it will be looked at again and if the choice is to replace the existing roof with a non-fabric one, it could be do-able.

Good point. I think you have to forecast that energy prices are going to rise across the board.

 

[upperdeck]

I agree they may not want to be in the arena management business but they may not have a choice. I don't think they could use much of their endowment, if any, for a stadium though they do have funds besides endowment. I used to hep manage it a while back.

if the endowment has not come back then they are not managing it very well . ours came back in half the time they expected

 

[CuseOnly]

As a Kid Archbold used to be packed. The quad was jumping and Marshal street and the varsity were always jammed. Keep the stadium on campus and re do the dome. Soft roof for the next 25 years with some upgrades and we are good to go. There is nothing like an on campus stadium cant ever replace the feeling and will never have the student support if they move it

Did you say student support? I haven't seen much student support at any football games in a while and when they do show, they leave at halftime or before and jingle their keys.

 

[CuseOnly]

Good point. I think you have to forecast that energy prices are going to rise across the board.

It cost SU $60K a month for electricity just to keep the roof up. That's 72oK a year. Change to a hard roof and more than half if not all that cost will disappear. I would imagine that a hard or opaque roof will be better for heat retention as well which will save additional dollars.

In other words, they spent 10 million dollars on keeping the roof up since it was installed in '99, add in heating costs to get the dome up to 85 degrees during a snowfall and maintenance to keep the snow off. I can't afford to heat my house to 85 and maintain it for any length of time, I would hate to see what it costs to heat the dome in the winter months.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Building something on the Kennedy Square lot is the future and the best choice long term in my opinion. To me any other option is putting a band-aid on the problem. We all love the Dome but we have to be realistic about things.

1) Getting off campus provides much more land and the ability to build a state of the art venue that will last a very long time
2) Doing some sort of joint venture/partnership with Onondaga County and SU spreads out the cost of the construction and operation of the building.
3) Getting out of the Dome allows for new naming rights on this building and bring in revenue
4) Improved parking. Parking for the current Dome isn't ideal (yet not as bad as some say it is either) and doing something from scratch would be an upgrade long-term. I mean why fix up the Dome if you don't fix things like parking?
5) SU would now have a prime piece of real estate on campus where the Dome currently stands to do what they please with

It just makes too much sense to move off campus. The new chancellor and the powers can say "its about the students first and foremost"...not buying that for a second. This will come down to money. Where they get the most bang for their buck and I think moving off campus provides that. Plus, lets be honest these students don't show up in force for football, lax, or any woman's sports at the Dome. Your gonna bend over for backwards for them? Does he have to say it publicly...yes. But I think he is saying it with a wink and a nod. This will come down to money and how SU can maximize the biggest profit at the end of the day. And to me its being part of a group to have a new building off campus in that Kennedy Square area. It's not like they would build the thing in Cicero...its like 5-10 min from where the Dome is now.

Couldn't you accomplish the same goals by building at Skytop?

There has to be tons more available space for parking than you would find at Kennedy Square.

 

[RF2044]

Building something on the Kennedy Square lot is the future and the best choice long term in my opinion. To me any other option is putting a band-aid on the problem. We all love the Dome but we have to be realistic about things.

1) Getting off campus provides much more land and the ability to build a state of the art venue that will last a very long time
2) Doing some sort of joint venture/partnership with Onondaga County and SU spreads out the cost of the construction and operation of the building.
3) Getting out of the Dome allows for new naming rights on this building and bring in revenue
4) Improved parking. Parking for the current Dome isn't ideal (yet not as bad as some say it is either) and doing something from scratch would be an upgrade long-term. I mean why fix up the Dome if you don't fix things like parking?
5) SU would now have a prime piece of real estate on campus where the Dome currently stands to do what they please with

It just makes too much sense to move off campus. The new chancellor and the powers can say "its about the students first and foremost"...not buying that for a second. This will come down to money. Where they get the most bang for their buck and I think moving off campus provides that. Plus, lets be honest these students don't show up in force for football, lax, or any woman's sports at the Dome. Your gonna bend over for backwards for them? Does he have to say it publicly...yes. But I think he is saying it with a wink and a nod. This will come down to money and how SU can maximize the biggest profit at the end of the day. And to me its being part of a group to have a new building off campus in that Kennedy Square area. It's not like they would build the thing in Cicero...its like 5-10 min from where the Dome is now.

Two quick reactions: I live in a city that had the football venue off campus for a long time, and it was a mistake that resulted in poor student attendance. It was one of the strategic drives in the move to build an on-campus football stadium.

Second, improved parking??? In the Kennedy Square vicinity?

 

[SUOrange44]

As a University, and one of the only ones to truly have a Dome in play, I think there is a significant ability to focus a revitalization of the current Dome (which I strongly support) or a new stadium around the use of "green" technology.

As you all know, there are just as many opportunities for tax breaks and support from legislators who may not normally be on board if that is a significant focus. Can you imagine what happens if a new fixed roof incorporates say solar or wind technology to offset energy costs to the stadium and, perhaps, some surrounding building like the geology building/earth science building and the physics building which are a stone's throw from the current Dome ?

Like them or not, the amount of tax credits (and publicity whether manufactured or otherwise) Pyramid and Destiny USA have been able to obtain due to their LEED certifications and use of these technologies have been massive. It is something that should certainly be considered in this project and would make our facility stand out yet again when compared to other venues.

SUOrange44

 

[xc84]

if the endowment has not come back then they are not managing it very well . ours came back in half the time they expected

I believe it did come back with the rest of the market.

 

[TexanMark]

If they upgrade the dome I hope they put on a new brick façade. That would look pretty nice.

What and lose the "Dome Stomp"?

 

[Toga]

As a University, and one of the only ones to truly have a Dome in play, I think there is a significant ability to focus a revitalization of the current Dome (which I strongly support) or a new stadium around the use of "green" technology.

As you all know, there are just as many opportunities for tax breaks and support from legislators who may not normally be on board if that is a significant focus. Can you imagine what happens if a new fixed roof incorporates say solar or wind technology to offset energy costs to the stadium and, perhaps, some surrounding building like the geology building/earth science building and the physics building which are a stone's throw from the current Dome ?

Like them or not, the amount of tax credits (and publicity whether manufactured or otherwise) Pyramid and Destiny USA have been able to obtain due to their LEED certifications and use of these technologies have been massive. It is something that should certainly be considered in this project and would make our facility stand out yet again when compared to other venues.

SUOrange44

Well said. Was thinking the exact same thing.