Defensive and offensive team rankings for this year

[Cusefan0307]

It's not just offense. It's just about everything. We've gone from NY's College team to 2nd best in Western NY. UB handled us - especially Perkins for whom we had no answer. I won't even mention the other MM losses. We had one win against the top 5 in the ACC. The rebounding deficits - even with Chukwu in the lineup - are increasingly problematic. Many blame it all on an aging coach but I think he can still coach. The question is who's on the floor. If we can't recruit some inside beef that can score ... fans are going to start wearing grocery bags.

When’s the last time we were good at rebounding?

Our teams from 2009-2013 used to get crushed on the glass. Difference there is we had ways to overcome it.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's not just offense. It's just about everything. We've gone from NY's College team to 2nd best in Western NY. UB handled us - especially Perkins for whom we had no answer.

Why do so many trip over themselves to say things like this?

Buffalo was better than us for one season.

 

[orangenauburn]

Why do so many trip over themselves to say things like this?

Buffalo was better than us for one season.

*Two

They are still playing

 

[OrangeDW]

*Two

They are still playing

*One. This year was the year I was talking about.

Wheres the second season they were better than us?

 

[reedny]

Why do so many trip over themselves to say things like this?

Buffalo was better than us for one season.

It's not just Buffalo. We're just not good anymore. Sorry to be a downer, but hey ... it is what it is. You're smart enough to see the numbers, DW ... we're near the bottom of the league in most categories on both sides of the court.

This happened in FB. A few years ago when we were giving up multiple scores in a quarter on D, I thought Ward was terrible and had to go. Then Cisco and Williams arrived. And we got some pass rushers and everything started to come together. That's exactly what needs to happen in BB. Talent.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's not just Buffalo. We're just not good anymore. Sorry to be a downer, but hey ... it is what it is.

So we’re not the best program in NY anymore?

Or were you just exaggerating because we’ve been very mediocre by Syracuse standards(or by powerhouse program standards) the last 5 years?

 

[orangenauburn]

*One. This year was the year I was talking about.

Wheres the second season they were better than us?

I was mistaken. Was thinking of Bonnies

 

[malpearl31]

FG % against - 17th
3 point % against - 73rd
Scoring Defense - 41st
Blocked Shots per game - t-20th
Rebound Margin - 269 (defensive RPG 273) (offensive RPG 113)
Total Steals - 19

Scoring offense - 257
FG % - 280
3 point % for - 253
3 point attempts for - 61
assists per game - 277
Turnovers - 106
assists/turnover ratio - 230

Read into these rankings what you will. My main takeaways:
- Our offense is laughably bad
- We shoot way too many threes for such a terrible shooting team
- We don't turn the ball over that much but our assist to turnover ration is horrendous because we are terrible at creating shots for each other
- the zone is definitely hurting our ability to grab defensive rebounds
- Our overall D is okay, but no longer elite
- Teams are finding success against us by shooting threes and getting offensive rebounds vs going inside where we can steal the ball or block their shot

If I had to summarize all this into one point: Our D used to be elite enough to carry our laughably bad offense... but it no longer is because teams can shoot enough threes to beat us now. The D is by no means terrible, but its just not as good as it used to be at defending the 3. (please see my Steph Curry killed our zone thread for wild speculation and H0T Takes =) )

So I think your general point - that our Offense needs to be better - is correct. But I think that some of the statistics you're using to make your argument are flawed, at best.

Specifically, the Scoring Defense and Scoring Offense stats you're using are not adjusted for tempo, they're "raw" statistics. So Duke - which has the 5th best AdjD from KenPom - ranks 70th in Scoring Defense (because they play at a faster pace - the 18th fastest in Div 1 this year). And Virginia, which has the 2nd best AdjO from KenPom this season - they rank 195th (!) in your Scoring Offense metric (precisely because they play at the slowest pace in all of Div 1).

Do yourself a favor and check out statistics that factor the pace of play into things. Making judgments off of the raw (unadjusted for tempo) rankings is equivalent to just looking at a baseball player's Batting Averag to determine their worth. Was David Eckstein a good offensive player in 2006 when he batted .292 for St. Louis? (Hint: The answer rhymes with 'blow'.)

 

[OrangeDW]

To your other post, we barely got by Buffalo the season before .. in the Dome no less. And we got spanked by the Bonnies (which hasn't happened in a generation). We had a nice run in the tournament, but that isn't going to mask the structural problems with this program - which continue. We're tanking in many offensive and defensive categories ... as the OP points out.

Again this year, we're not the best team in NY. I'm not spinning a doomsday scenario or "tripping over myself" - just being realistic. If anything, I think you're projecting - tripping over yourself to pretend everything is fine and 180 lb. forwards can compete at the 5 in the ACC - which is ridiculous.

The FH disaster poured water on everyone's hopes for some face-saving in the NCAA's. Oh well. I'd say there's next year .. but when I look at the lineup ... I don't think we have the pieces needed to improve .. especially inside. And that's been a trend for half a decade now ... not enough (or no) elite talent or beef to compete in a very difficult league. That's where I'll leave it.

“Barely got by” Buffalo who we beat by 7.

“Got spanked” by St. Bonnies, who beat us by 3 in OT. We had the game winning bucket taken away by a charge.

I didn’t even read beyond that, because you’re clearly not interested in being honest.

 

[reedny]

“Barely got by” Buffalo who we beat by 7.

“Got spanked” by St. Bonnies, who beat us by 3 in OT. We had the game winning bucket taken away by a charge.

because you’re clearly not interested in being honest.

First of all, the 7 pt. margin over UB 2 seasons ago doesn't mean the contest wasn't close. It was a nail-biter and they had to foul at the end. This year, Buffalo's SOS is not ACC level, but they're 32-3. They handled us in the Dome and are on their way to the second round ... not exactly a flash in the pan as you seem to suggest. As far as losing to Bonnies .. maybe "shocked" would have been a better descriptor than "spanked" given how long its been since we've lost to them. But splitting hairs over loss margins dodges the point I was making - that we're losing to local MM's and it's getting ugly. The metrics back up that assessment.

I get that you might not feel the urgency that I do about the state of the program. But that's no reason to call me dishonest and get all personal about it. I've been on this board a long time, rarely disagree with your posts, and would never think of spitting in your face because I had a different opinion.

Et tu, 721?

 

[OrangeFoo]

So I think your general point - that our Offense needs to be better - is correct. But I think that some of the statistics you're using to make your argument are flawed, at best.

Specifically, the Scoring Defense and Scoring Offense stats you're using are not adjusted for tempo, they're "raw" statistics. So Duke - which has the 5th best AdjD from KenPom - ranks 70th in Scoring Defense (because they play at a faster pace - the 18th fastest in Div 1 this year). And Virginia, which has the 2nd best AdjO from KenPom this season - they rank 195th (!) in your Scoring Offense metric (precisely because they play at the slowest pace in all of Div 1).

Do yourself a favor and check out statistics that factor the pace of play into things. Making judgments off of the raw (unadjusted for tempo) rankings is equivalent to just looking at a baseball player's Batting Averag to determine their worth. Was David Eckstein a good offensive player in 2006 when he batted .292 for St. Louis? (Hint: The answer rhymes with 'blow'.)

Agreed those two stats are flawed because they are not adjusted for pace of play. I would also argue that pace of play is a huge issue and the fact that our ppg on offense is very poor for a program with our tradition. Also if you adjust defensive numbers for pace of play they will get worse as you could argue that our pace of play by itself reduces offensive opportunities for the other team.

The rest of the stats, however, are not impacted by pace of play.

 

[syrBossHogg]

You seem to have a lot of cynicism for me but, strangely, not much for a team that's making mediocre a habit. Buffalo is no flash in the pan .. we almost lost to them 2 seasons ago in the Dome. And we got spanked by the Bonnies (which hasn't happened in a generation). We had a nice run in the tournament, but that isn't going to mask the structural problems with this program - which continue. Four of the 5 worst offensive teams we've had in the last 50 years have been in the last 5 years. I don't know how to spin that.

Again this year, we're not the best team in NY. I'm not panicking or "tripping over myself" - just being realistic. If anything, I think you're projecting - tripping over yourself to pretend everything is fine and 180 lb. forwards can compete at the 5 in the ACC - which is ridiculous.

The FH disaster poured water on everyone's hopes for some face-saving in the NCAA's. Oh well. I'd say there's next year .. but when I look at the lineup ... I don't think we have the pieces needed to improve .. especially inside. And that's been a trend for half a decade now ... not enough (or no) elite talent or beef to compete in a very difficult league. That's where I'll leave it.

Where did he even say this part in his posts? He said we've been mediocre the past five years

 

[Brooky03]

Am I the only one who saw the unusual number of corner threes we gave up this year? This is has been a thing in the NBA for a few years now. Could college coaches be catching on to this as a way to beat the zone? It is a one year sample... we will see what happens next season.

Corner 3's in the NBA are popular because they're shorter. We gave up a lot of corner 3's this year because we had to help the Centers too much. When a Center in the zone can't hold his own, the whole zone has to sink back to compensate. Forwards were getting too focused on what was going on in the paint to notice the 40% shooter standing in the corner for a half hour.

 

[malpearl31]

Also if you adjust defensive numbers for pace of play they will get worse as you could argue that our pace of play by itself reduces offensive opportunities for the other team.

You're wrong on this point. We do not get worse when pace of play is factored in. The AdjD ranks us better than the raw "Scoring Defense" does in 2018-19.

The thing is, there's no room for arguing (or spinning) the data on a site like KenPom. If, in a 55 possession game, a defense gives up 69 points - that's not very good (1.25 points-per-possession). If that same defense gives up 68 points in a 75 possession game - that's pretty good (0.90 points-per-possession). But with the "Scoring Defense" stat, both of those games are essentially the same.

The whole point of the AdjD and AdjO metrics are that they factor in pace of play (and some other stuff, I'm sure).

 

[JoeSU]

Buffalo has averaged 85 points a game the past two years. We’ve averaged 68.

Buffalo's SoS this year was #79.
SU was #8.

Last Year Buffalo was #108
SU was #36.

NCAA basketball Strength of Schedule

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We’ve had MAJOR point guard problems the past three years. It’s no surprise that our offense has suffered.

Ennis was the last good PG we had, but he slowed down the game to a point that our offense was running at 30mph when it used to be running at 50mph.

I miss the days of Scoop and before when we had point guards that could push the action. That’s been desperately missing. I think Carey has it in him, but he plays almost too fast. Game needs to slow down for him a bit so he can make better decisions while still pushing the action.

If it’s not Carey I have confidence that JG3 can push the action. Kid is just a winner. The kind of kid you love to have on your team and hate to play against.