Depressing Stat

[rocklloyd]

Not sure I’m following the logic here. Seems as though we’d rather play Wisconsin and LSU, potentially lose and churn coaches every 3 years than win football games and go to bowl (whatever it is) and get the extra practice time?

I don’t care what the bowl is, it means we’re winning (fans coming back) coaches are not churning for lack of performce and we get 15 or 20 extra practices in fall/winter. Right now, with our conference schedule I will take it all day, everyday.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

We will win 7 or 8 games this year. Hell, how close were we last year? LSU, FSU,Miami, NC state, middle tenn. We are close to cracking the top 25 again. If #2 can stay on the field we're in good shape.

I would love for Dungey to stay healthy all year but we have a very good backup. I think it is more of a key for our o line and d line to stay healthy. That and how the linebackers do is a bigger key to getting back to a bowl game.

 

[TheCusian]

We are playing Holy Cross as well as Western Michigan in 2019, which is when
I thought we were supposed to play Wisconsin. I rattled that off the top of my head when responding earlier today. After looking at it, we scheduled Rutgers to replace Wisconsin in 2020. Sorry my facts were a little off. However, my point still stands. I don’t feel playing in some bowl game against a .500 conference USA team in Detroit is the path back to national relevance.
As I said, I spoke with 2 position coaches who sat at our table for dinner. Several softball questions were asked throughout the meal. I then asked about scheduling and playing P5 teams in iconic stadiums like LSU versus scheduling teams like Liberty, Holy Cross, etc. I don’t really care to get into the specifics, but the bottom line was that playing teams like LSU/Wisconsin reduces the likelihood of wins and places coaches on the hot seat.
However, I do feel scheduling teams like LSU & Wisconsin is the way to become more relevant. We have beaten Clemson, and Virginia Tech each of the last two seasons and look at the recognition/national press it got us. Our slogan on billboards this year is “Our House” which was born following the win over Virginia Tech. Those 2 wins have done more in regards to national publicity then any win in Detroit in the Quick Lane Bowl on a cold night in December against a .500 Conference USA or MAC opponent played in front of a crowd of 8,000. This is my personal opinion.

You answered your own question. We already play top 25 teams every year in conference. We need to focus on beating them, full stop.

 

[MSOrange]

You answered your own question. We already play top 25 teams every year in conference. We need to focus on beating them, full stop.

Exactly. K State fans let Bill Snyder build his program. I'm not even saying we don't upgrade the schedule if we build some momentum. I think we should. But until that point, let's try to get some winning season to sell to recruits. This is a frustrating topic for me, so I will leave it at that.

 

[721Comstock]

I’m not buying into that train of thought. Bowl games were different in 1985. There were only 18 bowl games. It meant more. Today there are over 40 bowl games. It means nothing to be selected to a lower tier bowl playing against a .500 team from a non P5 conference.
As far as the brutal conference schedule, that’s an issue that needs to be handled by the ACC. The conference needs to be realigned to balance it out.
Again, it’s just my opinion.

And your opinion is incorrect.

The reason it's meaningful to make a bowl, is because it looks so bad when you do not.
Which we haven't for several years now - primarily due to overscheduling in the OOC.

The conference is unlikely to be "realigned to balance it out" - and since this is now our reality, what we need to do is try to schedule 4 winnable games (or 3 if/when we expand to 9 ACC games), to give us the best possible odds of achieving a winning season, year after year after year.
We don't need a "challenge" in the OOC - we play plenty of Top 25 teams just in our own damn division every year.

 

[reedny]

And your opinion is incorrect.

The reason it's meaningful to make a bowl, is because it looks so bad when you do not.
Which we haven't for several years now - primarily due to overscheduling in the OOC.

The conference is unlikely to be "realigned to balance it out" - and since this is now our reality, what we need to do is try to schedule 4 winnable games (or 3 if/when we expand to 9 ACC games), to give us the best possible odds of achieving a winning season, year after year after year.
We don't need a "challenge" in the OOC - we play plenty of Top 25 teams just in our own damn division every year.

Not only that ... a bowl game gives the team at least 2 more weeks of practice. And there's a substantial amount of earned (free, positive) media exposure.

 

[SWC75]

I’m not buying into that train of thought. Bowl games were different in 1985. There were only 18 bowl games. It meant more. Today there are over 40 bowl games. It means nothing to be selected to a lower tier bowl playing against a .500 team from a non P5 conference.
As far as the brutal conference schedule, that’s an issue that needs to be handled by the ACC. The conference needs to be realigned to balance it out.
Again, it’s just my opinion.

We've pulled off some upsets and played some other ranked teams close. The next step is to make a bowl game, then go on to bigger things. Would you rather be 5-7 and stay home or be 6-6 and got to a bowl game? That's a no-brainer. I see a pattern similar to Art Briles at Baylor, (on the field, not off it):
Art Briles - Wikipedia

Here's who they played out of the Big 12:
2010 Sam Houston State, Buffalo, Rice
2011 Texas Christian, (not yet in the cofnerence), Stephen F. Austin, Rice
2012 Southern Methodist, Sam Houston State, Louisiana-Monroe
2013 Wofford, Buffalo, Louisiana-Monroe
2014 Southern Methodist, Northwestenr Louisiana, Buffalo
2015 Southern Methodist, Lamar and Rice
Baylor Historical Scores

They went 3-3 vs. Oklahoma and 4-2 vs. Texas so it didn't hurt them when they played powerhouses. I think If Babers duplicated Briles' success here, there's be a statue of him outside the Dome.

I'm not saying we should schedule Sam Houston State, (I'm embarrassed we are playing Wagner - I remember my brothers alma mater Hamilton used to play them). But I don't think our non-conference schedule has to include national powers on top of the national powers we are already playing in conference to build a program. Until the conference realigns, we have to "control the controlables".

 

[TheCusian]

The schedule debate is answered in how our peer programs are judged. BC, Duke, Wake, and NC State have rolled out a craptastic cupcake while building momentum while we come close vs LSU.

Coming close vs P5 name schools gets you very little return. A winning record and a bowl (which makes no sense in the unbalanced schedule world we live in) gets you respect and momentum outside of the diehards.

 

[OrangeDW]

One more depressing stat: SU bowl drought: 4 years. Next longest bowl drought in ACC: 1 year (Ga Tech, Pitt, NC)

4 year streak ends this year.

Should be easier to start picking up some bowl appearances since we finally joined the rest of the college football world and stopped scheduling like it’s 1996.

 

[Obie9]

And your opinion is incorrect.

The reason it's meaningful to make a bowl, is because it looks so bad when you do not.
Which we haven't for several years now - primarily due to overscheduling in the OOC.

The conference is unlikely to be "realigned to balance it out" - and since this is now our reality, what we need to do is try to schedule 4 winnable games (or 3 if/when we expand to 9 ACC games), to give us the best possible odds of achieving a winning season, year after year after year.
We don't need a "challenge" in the OOC - we play plenty of Top 25 teams just in our own damn division every year.

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is......why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

 

[MSOrange]

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is...why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

Please keep posting. While I disagree with you on this issue, I greatly admire your passion and support of SU athletics. If we had more fans as passionate and supportive as you, it would solve quite a few problems

 

[TheCusian]

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is...why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

It’s rough and tumble - just be passionate and post anyways. Comstock is a good poster

(Just steer clear after a loss)

 

[721Comstock]

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is...why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

Maybe that's why they are position coaches and not head coaches?

You shared your opinion, I shared mine.
Mine just happens to be correct.

It's 2018.
We shouldn't be scheduling like it's 1988, or 1998.
Let's go bowling for a few years in a row, and then MAYBE consider upping our OOC game again.
There are no bonus points awarded for degree of difficulty.
And "close losses" to good P5 teams in the OOC are still a big fat L.

 

[Consigliere]

I’m not buying into that train of thought. Bowl games were different in 1985. There were only 18 bowl games. It meant more. Today there are over 40 bowl games. It means nothing to be selected to a lower tier bowl playing against a .500 team from a non P5 conference.
As far as the brutal conference schedule, that’s an issue that needs to be handled by the ACC. The conference needs to be realigned to balance it out.
Again, it’s just my opinion.

There is no question that being :a bowl team" in 2018 is nowhere near as impressive as it was 30 years ago, but it still serves as a line of demarcation. Conversely being a "non-bowl" team carries a much more severe stigma to it that is certainly raised on the recruiting trail. Getting to a bowl is not a be-all, end-all in terms of where a program should aspire to, but it is certainly a visible first step. And the fact that there is only ONE P5 program that has had a longer drought than us was an eye-opener to me regarding how far we have to go. I firmly believe we will get there. I will be more than a little disappointed if we don't end the streak of misery in 2018. I also get the impression talking to those in the know that the focus has always been on 2019 and have that earmarked as the true return to national relevance.

In terms of scheduling, you know how I feel about that. Everyone associated with the program recognizes the positives associated with playing high profile games in historic venues and I have truly relished some of my road trips over the years. I've been pretty strident insisting that it was not the LSU game that kept us out of a bowl last year as much as it was losing to MTSU and getting blown out by BC and Wake - all at home. But what I discounted was the physical toll those games take on a team. Difficult to find opportunities to build depth in game situations when every game is a war and it was clear that the physicality of top tier opponents we faced last year not only had a tangible injury component but also led to a LB corps that had virtually nothing left to give in the last month of the year. I think we will still pick our spots for games like LSU and Wisconsin going forward but it's clear that until we build the depth required to compete in the ACC with 85 scholarship players physically ready to step on the field we're going to see far more P5 mandates filled by teams like Rutgers, Purdue and Vanderbilt than by Alabama, Oklahoma or USC.

 

[MSOrange]

There is no question that being :a bowl team" in 2018 is nowhere near as impressive as it was 30 years ago, but it still serves as a line of demarcation. Conversely being a "non-bowl" team carries a much more severe stigma to it that is certainly raised on the recruiting trail. Getting to a bowl is not a be-all, end-all in terms of where a program should aspire to, but it is certainly a visible first step. And the fact that there is only ONE P5 program that has had a longer drought than us was an eye-opener to me regarding how far we have to go. I firmly believe we will get there. I will be more than a little disappointed if we don't end the streak of misery in 2018. I also get the impression talking to those in the know that the focus has always been on 2019 and have that earmarked as the true return to national relevance.

In terms of scheduling, you know how I feel about that. Everyone associated with the program recognizes the positives associated with playing high profile games in historic venues and I have truly relished some of my road trips over the years. I've been pretty strident insisting that it was not the LSU game that kept us out of a bowl last year as much as it was losing to MTSU and getting blown out by BC and Wake - all at home. But what I discounted was the physical toll those games take on a team. Difficult to find opportunities to build depth in game situations when every game is a war and it was clear that the physicality of top tier opponents we faced last year not only had a tangible injury component but also led to a LB corps that had virtually nothing left to give in the last month of the year. I think we will still pick our spots for games like LSU and Wisconsin going forward but it's clear that until we build the depth required to compete in the ACC with 85 scholarship players physically ready to step on the field we're going to see far more P5 mandates filled by teams like Rutgers, Purdue and Vanderbilt than by Alabama, Oklahoma or USC.

Very well stated on both sides of the scheduling issues. Great post as usual.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

This fall's high school senior class has never known a ranked Syracuse University football team. Now that is decidedly depressing. Makes you wonder why any of the relative handful who care about CFB would want to come to the Hill. 17 year old players is one thing, most 17 year old fans is something entirely different.

 

[SWC75]

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is...why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

You have every right to your opinion and to express it. So do we. it's a minority opinion but that doesn't make it a wrong one. (I've been there.) I'll quote Kipling:

"If you can keep your head when all about you
are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
but make allowance for their doubting too...

Yours is the earth and everything that's in it
and - which is more - you'll be a man, my son"

If— - Wikipedia

 

[Brian Orange]

It's really depressing when you see a program like Temple - TEMPLE! - that as recently as 2015 was a really solid team in the Top 25, making a bowl, etc. I understand we are in the ACC and our road is much, much tougher but there's still something to be said for all these other neighboring programs having some nice success while we are (as of now) still figuring out our way. I'm all in on Dino but still sobering to see.

 

[baggerbob]

Lol, excuse me for having an opinion. I’ll go back into the hole that I crawled out of.
The funny thing is...why did the 2 position coaches agree with my opinion? My thoughts can’t be too far off. I can see why many prominent posters choose not to share with others on this board or do so in private messages. I’m done.

Because they aren't head coaches at a major university playing in a division with 2 top 10 teams every year.

 

[elimunelson]

It's really depressing when you see a program like Temple - TEMPLE! - that as recently as 2015 was a really solid team in the Top 25, making a bowl, etc. I understand we are in the ACC and our road is much, much tougher but there's still something to be said for all these other neighboring programs having some nice success while we are (as of now) still figuring out our way. I'm all in on Dino but still sobering to see.

The ACC and our division has crippled teams w little to no depth like us. It is a reality that the division makeup is hurting us in these down years.

The tempo we play at seems to factor in as well when Dino hasn’t brought all his guys in yet too.

 

[TheCusian]

It's really depressing when you see a program like Temple - TEMPLE! - that as recently as 2015 was a really solid team in the Top 25, making a bowl, etc. I understand we are in the ACC and our road is much, much tougher but there's still something to be said for all these other neighboring programs having some nice success while we are (as of now) still figuring out our way. I'm all in on Dino but still sobering to see.

Their path to a bowl is easier, but access to higher end bowls is tougher. Such is life in the P5. Oh, we also have a better path to the playoffs. They have no path.

 

[TheCusian]

The ACC and our division has crippled teams w little to no depth like us. It is a reality that the division makeup is hurting us in these down years.

The tempo we play at seems to factor in as well when Dino hasn’t brought all his guys in yet too.

It’s more that we’re behind the other division teams in our rebuild. Wake, NC State, BC, Clemson all have coaches with longer tenure. You’re right that talent can mitigate that - see FSU this year.

Tempo is a true double edged sword. But I’d prefer the higher % chance to beat Clemson over not.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

A winning record in the month of November would be amazing.

 

[rocklloyd]

A winning record in the month of November would be amazing.

A win would be amazing...

 

[Newhouser]

how many wins and how much success until we stop getting paid $300,000 plus to travel to a non P5 school like WMU? For some reason that just looks low rent for an ACC school. To ma anyway.