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depth

It was clear early it was going to be a sloppy street ball game. Look at how out of control MCW and Triche were. This is exactly what you try to coach out of young players. Not the kind of game you want young players beginning their careers with.

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stuckinbig11 said:
Dumb statement regarding Cooney--not the right environment to showcase his weapons. Southerland played more (without taking 3s) because he is a lot bigger and can add more of other things.
Dumb statement regarding Coleman--not the right defensive game for him to play. Keita played more because he can run and jump more.
Really dumb to say it was an "easy" game. SDSU is likely a much better team when they shoot their 3s and FTs indoors. It was a very difficult game for both teams. JB had more to work with and made better decisions because he is a better coach. His "benched" players were not the right ones to play this game; it means nothing more than that. Period.
My apologies if you posted all this in jest.
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I am not saying easy game as in we played colgate. I said easy game as in after the tip, it was never in doubt. We held a double digit lead the entire game. And Boeheim chose to play the 3 freshmen a combined 19 minutes which is less than any of the other 6 players played by themselves.

Cooney looked like the slowest player on the court to me. Sorry if that's dumb.

I dont even know what to make of the Coleman comment - it almost sounds like Keita is the better player in your opinion.

I am just pointing out interesting results from game 1. Obviously the freshmen will play significant minutes over the next 6 weeks so we really wont know much until the BE play starts. But I have a distinct feeling we won't be going 9 deep this year... yet again.
 
hoopsupstate said:
Actually, I think Cooney was more active in the zone than MCW. MCW got beat off the dribble all day in the zone. He needs to get his butt down on defense. He was a sieve on the top of the zone. CJ, Southerland and Christmas weren't a whole lot better. That's why they went to the foul line 30 times.
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Your spot on , Cooney was better on D , from what I saw . If you played the minutes they played together .
 
CusefanATL said:
I am not saying easy game as in we played colgate. I said easy game as in after the tip, it was never in doubt. We held a double digit lead the entire game. And Boeheim chose to play the 3 freshmen a combined 19 minutes which is less than any of the other 6 players played by themselves.

Cooney looked like the slowest player on the court to me. Sorry if that's dumb.

I dont even know what to make of the Coleman comment - it almost sounds like Keita is the better player in your opinion.

I am just pointing out interesting results from game 1. Obviously the freshmen will play significant minutes over the next 6 weeks so we really wont know much until the BE play starts. But I have a distinct feeling we won't be going 9 deep this year... yet again.
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I don't think you read my post very carefully. Playing time was dictated by the skill sets of individual players as they matched up to the kind of game that we were forced to play due to the outdoor conditions. JB made the right call on how to play this game; Fisher did not (or lacked the horses to do so). I don't think this one game sets the tone for what to expect in any other game in the future. By the way, in my opinion, Cooney was not on camera long enough for anyone to judge his speed.
 
stuckinbig11 said:
I don't think you read my post very carefully. Playing time was dictated by the skill sets of individual players as they matched up to the kind of game that we were forced to play due to the outdoor conditions. JB made the right call on how to play this game; Fisher did not (or lacked the horses to do so). I don't think this one game sets the tone for what to expect in any other game in the future. By the way, in my opinion, Cooney was not on camera long enough for anyone to judge his speed.
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Cooney did get beaten to a ball when Triche made a good save at midcourt. And Cooney had position on the guy.

But he was not on camera too much, no.
 
stuckinbig11 said:
I don't think you read my post very carefully. Playing time was dictated by the skill sets of individual players as they matched up to the kind of game that we were forced to play due to the outdoor conditions. JB made the right call on how to play this game; Fisher did not (or lacked the horses to do so). I don't think this one game sets the tone for what to expect in any other game in the future. By the way, in my opinion, Cooney was not on camera long enough for anyone to judge his speed.
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when you have a comfortable lead the ENTIRE game, you can play anyone anyway you want to. thats my point.

we were up double digits the ENTIRE game. Boeheim could have played anyone he wanted to.

and its all in the eye of the beholder. if you ask anyone before the game if we have to score all our points in the paint, who do you want to play? EVERY SINGLE PERSON SAYS DAJUAN COLEMAN FIRST. Literally, every single poster on here would have said he is our best low post scoring option. You can't change your dynamics based on Keita running and jumping more. Because if that is really the case, Keita will play more than Coleman this year.

I understand your point on Cooney that he only played 4 minutes... but he was terrible in that 4 minutes. And seemed very slow to me. But I will reserve judgement for now.
 
I will defer all judgement to the tall, thin and balding fellow who is closing in on 900 wins as to who plays, what position they play, what defense they play, what offensive sets they run and how long they play. JB has demonstrated that he does not have any preconceived plan for any of the above (save the zone) and that he will often utilize his players based on who he thinks is best suited for winning the game which is at hand. I know this is going out on a limb, but based on what I've seen in the past 20+ years, I'm cool with that.
 
Flacusian said:
I will defer all judgement to the tall, thin and balding fellow who is closing in on 900 wins as to who plays, what position they play, what defense they play, what offensive sets they run and how long they play. JB has demonstrated that he does not have any preconceived plan for any of the above (save the zone) and that he will often utilize his players based on who he thinks is best suited for winning the game which is at hand. I know this is going out on a limb, but based on what I've seen in the past 20+ years, I'm cool with that.
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which goes 7.5 deep, right?
 
CusefanATL said:
when you have a comfortable lead the ENTIRE game, you can play anyone anyway you want to. thats my point.

we were up double digits the ENTIRE game. Boeheim could have played anyone he wanted to.

and its all in the eye of the beholder. if you ask anyone before the game if we have to score all our points in the paint, who do you want to play? EVERY SINGLE PERSON SAYS DAJUAN COLEMAN FIRST. Literally, every single poster on here would have said he is our best low post scoring option. You can't change your dynamics based on Keita running and jumping more. Because if that is really the case, Keita will play more than Coleman this year.

I understand your point on Cooney that he only played 4 minutes... but he was terrible in that 4 minutes. And seemed very slow to me. But I will reserve judgement for now.
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Did it occur to you that maybe we held that comfortable lead for the entire game precisely because we went with our most experienced players?

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It's a bit early in the season to draw conclusions about any freshman's playing time. These guys will take lumps early, but may be able to make a big jump before the end of the year. This is the type of team that may look much better in march than it does right now.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Did it occur to you that maybe we held that comfortable lead for the entire game precisely because we went with our most experienced players?

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Exactly. It's not like we were up 30. A 14 point lead can shrink to 6 in a heartbeat if a team gets careless.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Did it occur to you that maybe we held that comfortable lead for the entire game precisely because we went with our most experienced players?

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OK. we'll see how it shakes out in BE play... It was just extremely surprising to see to me.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Did it occur to you that maybe we held that comfortable lead for the entire game precisely because we went with our most experienced players?

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Which feeds back to the original post in that we have limited depth this year despite many believing we would go 9 deep this year. JB tells you what he thinks by the substitutions he makes. Southerland at the two in the zone tells me that JB does not believe Cooney offers enough defense to stay on the floor even when our starting PG goes to the bench. Because Dirty's game is also primarily shooting the long ball but his length and defense kept him on the floor playing what most believe is slightly out of position.
 
Garbs said:
hmm I don't think I have ever heard him use that term
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why are people so upset with the assessment that we may not go 9 deep this year?

maybe jb has never used the term 7.5 man rotation, but everyone here knows that is how he has traditionally run his teams. Even last year, we were basically 7.5 deep. and that was supposed to be our deepest team ever.
 
CusefanATL said:
why are people so upset with the assessment that we may not go 9 deep this year?

maybe jb has never used the term 7.5 man rotation, but everyone here knows that is how he has traditionally run his teams. Even last year, we were basically 7.5 deep. and that was supposed to be our deepest team ever.
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Personally, I find it scary because of the guard position and the lack of depth there. It means our two guards (Triche and MCW) are going to play an incredible amount of minutes this year which could lead to 'wear down' by the time the tourneys roll around.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
Personally, I find it scary because of the guard position and the lack of depth there. It means our two guards (Triche and MCW) are going to play an incredible amount of minutes this year which could lead to 'wear down' by the time the tourneys roll around.
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i dont disagree with that at all...

although if is the case that cooney is getting much PT, i have no issue putting southy up top.
 
CusefanATL said:
OK. we'll see how it shakes out in BE play... It was just extremely surprising to see to me.
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Why was it extremely surprising? We were playing a ranked team on the road, in a challenging environment for both teams, with lots of semi-unknown commodity players ascending into more prominent roles. Let's see how players like Cooney, Coleman, and Grant [and to a lesser extent, Rak and MCW] play after a couple of tune up games, when they have a chance to get some PT and get more comfortable--and for the coaching staff to be more comfortable with them.
 
CusefanATL said:
i dont disagree with that at all...

although if is the case that cooney is getting much PT, i have no issue putting southy up top.
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Now imagine us playing Louisville and getting pressed. Can Southy help out that situation? I certainly hope so.

You're right of course, if Southy can cover that large expanse of territory (and maybe his length helps cover any mistakes) up top, and is hitting shots from deep, this can be a very scary big team.
 
RF2044 said:
Why was it extremely surprising? We were playing a ranked team on the road, in a challenging environment for both teams, with lots of semi-unknown commodity players ascending into more prominent roles. Let's see how players like Cooney, Coleman, and Grant [and to a lesser extent, Rak and MCW] play after a couple of tune up games, when they have a chance to get some PT and get more comfortable--and for the coaching staff to be more comfortable with them.
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I dont know, I guess I am the only 1.

I guess everyone but me knew that Coleman would play less than 10 min. And not come back in at all after the 1st tv timeouts of each half.

We'll see how it plays out. I was surprised. That's all.
 
CusefanATL said:
I dont know, I guess I am the only 1.

I guess everyone but me knew that Coleman would play less than 10 min. And not come back in at all after the 1st tv timeouts of each half.

We'll see how it plays out. I was surprised. That's all.
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Personally, I'm not sure you can actually learn anything from that game. The conditions dictated everything. If we see the same thing from JB next indoor game, then we have a trend and the truth will be a little more clear.
 
CuseFaninVT said:
Personally, I'm not sure you can actually learn anything from that game. The conditions dictated everything. If we see the same thing from JB next indoor game, then we have a trend and the truth will be a little more clear.
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  • we are going 9 deep vs wagner.
  • I dont understand how the conditions dictated colemans PT? The only reason I have heard so far is that Kieta runs and jumps better...
 
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