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Desko

Desko failing or the recruits? I wont name names but there were several highly ranked recruits who did not pan out for one reason or another. Many from CNY and other nearby locales.

Desko had to undertake a transition in 18' because of those poor classes, several freshman were put into rotation in 18 and team is highly competitive in every game unlike 18' despite some bad stetches that has tarnished a season that was better than the pundits expected.

Team has several good talents Expectations will be high over the next two years since those players will now experienced seniors and juniors. Desko going to look a lot brighter if one of these rated IL attackman becomes an Alpha.
 
And those two things can be fixed, the first one quite easily. We have 12.5 schollies to give out, ad at this point we have the revenue and should be THROWING money at quality players.

SU uses its full scholarship allotment, the probelm is there is only 12.7 to go around for a roster of 50+. A good portion of guys are getting zippo in athletic scholarship money.
 
SU uses its full scholarship allotment, the probelm is there is only 12.7 to go around for a roster of 50+. A good portion of guys are getting zippo in athletic scholarship money.

I'm not sure how it's policed but they could probably more than make up for it in financial aid.
 
I'm not sure how it's policed but they could probably more than make up for it in financial aid.

I imagine the NCAA doesn't police non-revenue sports financial aid awards very closely at all.

But it's going to get more difficult to compete for recruits as more schools move toward tuition free education (i.e. Ivies).
 
I'm not sure how it's policed but they could probably more than make up for it in financial aid.

Players definitely get financial aid as well, almost no one is paying the full costs to attend SU but with only 12.7 to ago around most guys are getting less then a quarter of an athletic scholarship with some exceptions. I don't think its an excuse by any means but I think it does play a role.
 
And that's a no-brainer to change. Ridiculous that we're not throwing money at good players with all the struggles.

Its difficult to have a couple of guys on full scholarship for a lax team unless your talking about someone with Spencer level talent. SU's trying to spread 12.7 scholarships over at least 30+ guys if not more that they have recruited. You just don't have the ability to give someone a full ride and lose 2 other players because your out of scholarship money or can't match what another school is offering. SU's issue is that at certain positions SU isn't getting the high end talent it used to in its heyday amongst several other issues which belong in another thread. I know finances have cost SU a couple of players including apparently the top guy in next years class (no need to re-hash that again) but I don't think its among the top 5 or even 10 issues affecting SU right now.
 
The Starsia to Tiffany transition at UVA is the absolute best case scenario for a coaching change, but I am not sure there is a coach out there like a Tiffany in 2016 who is both realistically available, and trending upward in such an impressive way that I would be optimistic about our teams improvement if they came aboard now. Names thrown around, like Chemotti at Richmond and Galloway, have done an excellent job of turning around programs that were once off the map entirely, but our gauntlet of a schedule is like nothing they have had to deal with in their careers so far. If Wildhack got on TV tomorrow and said "I replaced Desko with a guy whose team went 10-7 and lost to Mount St Mary's and lost 7-14 to Airforce in April last year! (Chemotti at Richmond)" or "with a guy who went 6-9 and lost to High Point by 14 in May! (Jacksonville)" he would be insulted to no end for his reckless decision making, no matter how quick and impressive their program turnarounds have been.

The list of guys I would be fine with coming in next year is quite short and I believe they are all pipe dreams for coming here. That would be Danowski, Tambroni, and Shay, with Tiffany and Toomey as a maybes. A guy to keep an eye on could be Mike Murphy at Penn. He has brought Penn back into relevance these past few years and he certainly knows what a gauntlet schedule is like. He also may want a school with a greater tradition/reputation that truly puts a great deal of focus on lacrosse. But again this year is his one year of any tourney appearance/success at all and he certainly hasn't had Deskos consistent track record in the regular season as of yet. Not many could come in and get us to a record that the ncaa deems worthy of a home game year in and year out like desko has. If I was to truly join the fire desko train I would only be satisfied with going big or going home at present. Nothing about Desko's performance has convinced me that we need to rush to bring in a guy like Chemotti or Galloway NOW before it's too late.
 
Coach P I think your right but I think Shafer he would have let go the same time Coyle did. The writing was on the wall there big time. John is a very smart guy and knows that rumbling are getting louder. The pressure is on the staff to have a good showing the next 1-2 seasons or I think he's going pull the plug.
I agree with your assessment in general, but I think everyone close to the program is liking the uptick in performance. Most people agree the loss of Tucker Dordevic was huge, taking SU from preseason contender to lucky to get to .500. Fortunately, the team proved better than prognosticated.

The team developed well this season, bring back Tucker D. and some good freshman recruits, another guy steps up his game and SU will likely be projected as a contender. If Desko falls flat (read close to .500 or worse) and his seat is hot in 2021

If only Desko would open up the game plan to some speed...
 
Several interesting points have been made in this thread, and the observation that there are few "sure thing"-type coaches out there is sobering. I agree that there's a possibility a Galloway hiring could be great because he's been recruiting and knows the program and has a name that could resonate ... or it could be a commitment to mediocrity, in that he'd be a relative newbie coaching against a number of potential HoFers just in his own conference.

A problem I have in the thread is the blanket statements -- for example, the kids are the problem OR the coaches are the problem ... the issue is coaching OR it's recruiting. The fact is that the *program* is not getting the results many people feel it should be getting, considering resources, reputation, history and the like. There are certain realities that aren't in dispute -- not getting as many prime recruits, some highly regarded players underachieving, what seems to be an inordinately large number of kids committing and then decommitting.

Folks need to look at the big picture and determine the best ways to fix the stuff that's yielding bad results. Some elements seem fairly straightforward, like the current staff not doing enough to ensure that a kid who has committed stays committed. The solution could be as simple as making more phone calls and visits to our top commits, and/or it could mean that we work harder to flip kids who've committed somewhere else. Some things could be more problematic. I'm convinced one of the overriding issues is that college lacrosse has, and continues to, undergo changes faster than SU's program has been capable of keeping up with. The challenge: How do we fix that?

I also think, whether it plans to keep Desko or not, that the Wildhack administration needs to be drawing a blueprint for what qualifications its next coach will need to have in terms of on-field performance, recruiting ability, connections in key regions/conferences, academic results and the like. Desko won't be around forever, unless he goes all Boeheim on us. One resume that jumps out is that of Ben DeLuca. In year 2 at Delaware, he took a program that'd had six straight losing seasons before his arrival, and delivered a 10-5 season. He's a Rochester native (upstate NY, check), was DC at Duke (knows the ACC, check) and associate HC at Harvard (can recruit to selective private institutions, check), and went something like 37-11 as the head guy at Cornell (top-tier HC experience, check) before a hazing scandal in 2013 got him fired. His first Delaware team had a 3.0 GPA. His wife has CNY ties, as well. I'm not saying he'd be the be-all and end-all, but that's the kind of resume the next guy should have.

Meanwhile, Desko and the other people running SU's program ought to be doing what good leaders do in other sports, and other walks of life ... conducting a complete, sober analysis of the program's strengths and weaknesses, including using some input from some folks outside the program. IIRC, one of the reasons the Blackhawks were able to win a third Stanley Cup despite some age, injury and salary-cap issues was that they took an honest look at their program, then made and executed some tough choices.
 
Most people agree the loss of Tucker Dordevic was huge, taking SU from preseason contender to lucky to get to .500. Fortunately, the team proved better than prognosticated.

The team developed well this season, bring back Tucker D. and some good freshman recruits, another guy steps up his game and SU will likely be projected as a contender. If Desko falls flat (read close to .500 or worse) and his seat is hot in 2021

When the team develops well and proves better than prognosticated, does the coaching staff get any credit or does all the credit go to the players?

Because, conversely, when the team falls flat and underachieves, it is clear that the coaching staff gets the blame.

Seems like the measuring stick is bent on this board.

And, to be clear, just because I responded to you does not mean that I am targeting you. You are actually, IMO, one of the more level-headed posters on this board.

Your GM analogy in one of your posts earlier in the thread was an excellent one.
 
When the team develops well and proves better than prognosticated, does the coaching staff get any credit or does all the credit go to the players?

Because, conversely, when the team falls flat and underachieves, it is clear that the coaching staff gets the blame.

Seems like the measuring stick is bent on this board.

And, to be clear, just because I responded to you does not mean that I am targeting you. You are actually, IMO, one of the more level-headed posters on this board.

Your GM analogy in one of your posts earlier in the thread was an excellent one.

Agree that all should share in the good and bad. Coaches can be critiqued for lack of game adjustments amid collapses but also right to be given share of credit for strong performances including several comebacks wins.

Syracuse was already a contender in 2019 because they have several very good talents especially at midfield . Desko invested in a transition and progress seen . Core talent has numerous juniors and team capable of advancing to FF in each of the next two years.

Dordevic (15-5) is an athletic talent similar to Montgomery of Duke, both influence and factor but neither is yet a top tier producer so not going to overstate his return as it places unfair expectations on a youngster returning from a lost year of development. With him , Cuse perhaps wins one of those one goal losses to UVA or UNC that delivers a home playoff game but then recall that Buttermore scored six of his 20 goals in those two games. Team success is not contingent on any one player but collective effort . Dami's return will be a plus.

Desko as GM in offseason has three critical holes to fill . Two good attackman and cd Bomberry who had a strong season after opener. Avoid preordaining , consider all options and shift personnel if needed to optimize.
 
Shay is not a pipe dream

I hope you're right but it just seems unlikely. There has been talk on this board of investments Yale has made in lacrosse recently including a generous philanthropist committing to help the team. Yale's academics seem to be attracting more top recruits rather than turning them away. The school is clearly not disregarding the importance of the program. The amount that want to go to Yale due to the advancement of their career prospects seems to outweigh those who can't make it due to not meeting the academic requirements. They are fresh off of one championship and may be closing in on another and have some excellent freshman recruits.

Unless his local ties are a serious motivating factor for him personally, the only way I could see us getting him would be a massive pay increase, but is that something we really have to offer? Desko is certainly well payed but I have not idea how it stacks up with Ivy coaches. I'm sure Shay got some sort of bonus/raise after last season.
 
I hope you're right but it just seems unlikely. There has been talk on this board of investments Yale has made in lacrosse recently including a generous philanthropist committing to help the team. Yale's academics seem to be attracting more top recruits rather than turning them away. The school is clearly not disregarding the importance of the program. The amount that want to go to Yale due to the advancement of their career prospects seems to outweigh those who can't make it due to not meeting the academic requirements. They are fresh off of one championship and may be closing in on another and have some excellent freshman recruits.

Unless his local ties are a serious motivating factor for him personally, the only way I could see us getting him would be a massive pay increase, but is that something we really have to offer? Desko is certainly well payed but I have not idea how it stacks up with Ivy coaches. I'm sure Shay got some sort of bonus/raise after last season.

Coaches like challenges. Especially when the blue blood lacrosse University you grew up in the shadow of and rooting for comes calling.

But Wildhack has never made a big hire so it's hard to speculate what direction he'd go. My biggest fear is someone unqualified just because they're an alum.
 
Do you know Shay?

Not personally but I know what he has going at Yale and I know a father of a frosh on the current team who knows him. Its going to take a lot ( a whole lot) to get him out of there. SU isn't known to throw money around and unless that changes its not happening.
 
When the team develops well and proves better than prognosticated, does the coaching staff get any credit or does all the credit go to the players?

Because, conversely, when the team falls flat and underachieves, it is clear that the coaching staff gets the blame.

Seems like the measuring stick is bent on this board.

And, to be clear, just because I responded to you does not mean that I am targeting you. You are actually, IMO, one of the more level-headed posters on this board.

Your GM analogy in one of your posts earlier in the thread was an excellent one.

You raise a fair point. I give Desko credit for not throwing in the towel. He made adjustments until he found some winning combinations. I was disappointed in out late season collapse, but overall I have to respect what Desko accomplished this spring. How many coaches could have pulled that rabbit from the SU hat?

I am in no hurry to replace Desko, there simply isn't a great pool of coaching talent that is readily available to a blue blood program, combined with what I perceive to be improvement overall in what should have been a down year, I am more reluctant to replace Desko. Add in Tucker's return, a very good core returning and some fresh new highly regarded faces and this could be the leading edge of an SU resurgence. Desko made lemonade with the lemons he was given to start the season. I think he does the same next spring.

Change for the sake of change is rarely as good as imagined. Especially if those close to the program see what I see from afar. Desko has at least two years to show improvement, (h/t Jeremey).

While I understand the frustration of the fan base, I also appreciate that SU did something no school will ever accomplish in the sport: 22 straight FF's and 10 NC's. Even SU is not likely to match that performance again.

I also believe Wildhack knows what he is doing. He has his eyes open but is in hurry to make unnecessary changes. If Wildhack sees what I see, he waits to see what happens next spring before pulling any trigger or even making serious contingency plans. If Desko falls flat, things change.
 
You raise a fair point. I give Desko credit for not throwing in the towel. He made adjustments until he found some winning combinations. I was disappointed in out late season collapse, but overall I have to respect what Desko accomplished this spring. How many coaches could have pulled that rabbit from the SU hat?

I am in no hurry to replace Desko, there simply isn't a great pool of coaching talent that is readily available to a blue blood program, combined with what I perceive to be improvement overall in what should have been a down year, I am more reluctant to replace Desko. Add in Tucker's return, a very good core returning and some fresh new highly regarded faces and this could be the leading edge of an SU resurgence. Desko made lemonade with the lemons he was given to start the season. I think he does the same next spring.

Change for the sake of change is rarely as good as imagined. Especially if those close to the program see what I see from afar. Desko has at least two years to show improvement, (h/t Jeremey).

While I understand the frustration of the fan base, I also appreciate that SU did something no school will ever accomplish in the sport: 22 straight FF's and 10 NC's. Even SU is not likely to match that performance again.

I also believe Wildhack knows what he is doing. He has his eyes open but is in hurry to make unnecessary changes. If Wildhack sees what I see, he waits to see what happens next spring before pulling any trigger or even making serious contingency plans. If Desko falls flat, things change.

Not the least bit surprised that Wildhack is all in on Desko for next year. There’s a solid group returning, But with another daunting schedule and no Dome after March 1, I’ll be shocked if next season yields bettter results. I’ll also be surprised if Desko can mine another Final 4 trip before he’s done at SU.
 
Fun fact: If you go by losses over the past THREE years, we have less losses than every big 10, ACC, and Ivy team except Duke, Penn St, MD, and Yale. I only go by losses because it is hard to control for the varying amount of easy games on each teams schedule. I admit our spot would probably drop if looking at win percentage instead of number of losses, but as I said I don't think that is entirely fair since we play on average a couple less throwaway games a season than most, and our strength of schedule is consistently one of the best in the nation. If you go back five years instead of three I am pretty sure only Duke and MD are ahead of us in terms of record. Actually we have less losses than Duke, but I digress.

Playing the record game is not a good enough reason to say SU is not a top team because our regular season performances have actually been pretty impressive, putting us solidly in the 5-8 range of teams nationally each year. Some solid evidence of that is that we had a very solid home game streak in the playoffs post 2012 that just ended this year, with a record that I think would have gotten us a home game in years past, but it was a very tight year with some unfortunate tournament upsets that did not go our way. This includes a number 1 overall seed in 2015 and number 2 overall in 2017.

I think arguments that we have fallen below standards we should expect as fans should begin and end with our post season performances, which truly show a trend of us never being able to break out of the 5-8 range of teams and enter the 1-4 tier. We produce a team year in and year out that looks poised to be at least a potential contender for the final four. That is actually quite impressive and uncommon for teams this decade. But we get to the tournament and consistently underachieve. People bring up the a Pasqualoni era of football when talking about the team but I think our current predicament is a lot closer to Tony Bennet's UVA basketball team, BEFORE their team this year of course. We are similar right down to us getting a high end seed without a big name recruit. Here's to hoping that we break out of our tourney slump in a similar fashion.

(EDIT:Actually Shay also has a better winning percentage than us over five years as well as three. The guy has been putting together solid seasons for a while now!)
 

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