Did JB actually think this group would win games together?

[Cusefan0307]

Let me start out by saying I really don't have an issue with any of our players. I think a lot of these guys could be decent in the right situation. Buddy would be better off as a catch and shoot guy. I would have taken him over Cooney on the 2014 team, however there is no way he should be the 2nd option especially at this point in his career.

Girard would be ok if he played with a bunch of elite forwards like Gmac did in Hak in Melo to start his career.

Marek and Sidibe would be ok if we had an all acc backcourt. We do not.

The young guys would be ok if they were only required to play spot minutes. We are asking guys to play 30 mpg as main options who really should be role players. Obviously this falls back on not getting elite talent, but the question remains did JB really think he could win games with a bunch of role players? If he did I really question his basketball acumen at this point.

It should be stated that with the Italy trip we should have had a head start on the season. We do not. We were still settling lineups into November when we started practicing in August. That trip was a complete waste of time.

I want JB to retire right now, but I don't think that is going to happen. I just can't believe he thought this group would win games when he has no elite talent on the floor.

 

[orangedave]

Let me start out by saying I really don't have an issue with any of our players. I think a lot of these guys could be decent in the right situation. Buddy would be better off as a catch and shoot guy. I would have taken him over Cooney on the 2014 team, however there is no way he should be the 2nd option especially at this point in his career.

Girard would be ok if he played with a bunch of elite forwards like Gmac did in Hak in Melo to start his career.

Marek and Sidibe would be ok if we had an all acc backcourt. We do not.

The young guys would be ok if they were only required to play spot minutes. We are asking guys to play 30 mpg as main options who really should be role players. Obviously this falls back on not getting elite talent, but the question remains did JB really think he could win games with a bunch of role players? If he did I really question his basketball acumen at this point.

It should be stated that with the Italy trip we should have had a head start on the season. We do not. We were still settling lineups into November when we started practicing in August. That trip was a complete waste of time.

I want JB to retire right now, but I don't think that is going to happen. I just can't believe he thought this group would win games when he has no elite talent on the floor.

Even if he didn't believe it, why would he come out and say it in public? Certainly would be a horrible shot at his players if he did.

 

[GoCuse14]

Even if he didn't believe it, why would he come out and say it in public? Certainly would be a horrible shot at his players if he did.

And we all know that JB hates to publicly take shots at anyone, let alone players

 

[orangedave]

And we all know that JB hates to publicly take shots at anyone, let alone players

At individual players, yes. Has he ever said his entire stinks? That's what I meant. So far all he has said is the team needs more work than he thought and that should be sufficient.
Actually, the title of this thread had to do with what JB thinks, not what he said.

 

[GoCuse14]

At individual players, yes. Has he ever said his entire stinks? That's what I meant. So far all he has said is the team needs more work than he thought and that should be sufficient.
Actually, the title of this thread had to do with what JB thinks, not what he said.

Sorry...wasnt attacking what you said...just working on upping my post count.

 

[Newhouser]

He knew we were not going to be good - if he didn't he is more delusional than I thought. My biggest concern is just how delusional is JB at this point? Self-awareness is a difficult thing that gets harder and harder as you get older and are a legend.

 

[orangecuse]

Let me start out by saying I really don't have an issue with any of our players. I think a lot of these guys could be decent in the right situation. Buddy would be better off as a catch and shoot guy. I would have taken him over Cooney on the 2014 team, however there is no way he should be the 2nd option especially at this point in his career.

Girard would be ok if he played with a bunch of elite forwards like Gmac did in Hak in Melo to start his career.

Marek and Sidibe would be ok if we had an all acc backcourt. We do not.

The young guys would be ok if they were only required to play spot minutes. We are asking guys to play 30 mpg as main options who really should be role players. Obviously this falls back on not getting elite talent, but the question remains did JB really think he could win games with a bunch of role players? If he did I really question his basketball acumen at this point.

It should be stated that with the Italy trip we should have had a head start on the season. We do not. We were still settling lineups into November when we started practicing in August. That trip was a complete waste of time.

I want JB to retire right now, but I don't think that is going to happen. I just can't believe he thought this group would win games when he has no elite talent on the floor.

To answer this question, I think he did, at least at the very beginning of the season. He stated in one of those pressers that it would take about 10-12 games for them to be good. Last week after those 2 debacles in the Barclay's Center, he moved off that to about 20 games. Who knows what he'll say after the next two, maybe something along the lines by season's end?

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think if a few things had broken our way we could have won with this team...

A few things that I am shocked at:
- How raw Guerrier is given all the amazing things I have read about him. I believe people were projecting him to take over for Brissett and give us 10-12 ppg. While I do believe he is a really good rebounder, he seems completely lost on offense. Outside of the one three pointer he hit, the rest have been comically bad.
- How ineffectual Carey was. He was the same exact player we saw at the end of last season with little to no improvement. He struggled against the pressure that Canadian team threw at him
- How little confidence Goodine has... the kids has the athletic tools but he is afraid to make a basketball move and play aggressively. Given his highschool track record I would have expected much much more confidence. Again, people were projecting him as a starting point. He doesn't do anything to stress the opposing defense... kind of just floats around

One thing I am not shocked at:
- the lack of any improvement from Sidibe and Marek... we don't do player development at Syracuse any more apparently . This more than anything concerns me because the kids have raw talent, but I'm not sure they will get any better next year

If these 4 things had changed than we would be a solid squad, but our recent luck being what it is... none of these bets panned out and we are where we are. This is on top of basically every player on last year's team somehow regressing year over year. Something is not right.

 

[BomberOrange]

When your best player is Hughes you're in trouble. He is a role player in the good ole days.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think if a few things had broken our way we could have won with this team...

A few things that I am shocked at:
- How raw Guerrier is given all the amazing things I have read about him. I believe people were projecting him to take over for Brissett and give us 10-12 ppg. While I do believe he is a really good rebounder, he seems completely lost on offense. Outside of the one three pointer he hit, the rest have been comically bad.
- How ineffectual Carey was. He was the same exact player we saw at the end of last season with little to no improvement. He struggled against the pressure that Canadian team threw at him
- How little confidence Goodine has... the kids has the athletic tools but he is afraid to make a basketball move and play aggressively. Given his highschool track record I would have expected much much more confidence. Again, people were projecting him as a starting point. He doesn't do anything to stress the opposing defense... kind of just floats around

One thing I am not shocked at:
- the lack of any improvement from Sidibe and Marek... we don't do player development at Syracuse any more apparently . This more than anything concerns me because the kids have raw talent, but I'm not sure they will get any better next year

If these 4 things had changed than we would be a solid squad, but our recent luck being what it is... none of these bets panned out and we are where we are. This is on top of basically every player on last year's team somehow regressing year over year. Something is not right.

Marek went home and broke his hand right? How was he supposed to develop?

 

[two3zone]

Marek went home and broke his hand right? How was he supposed to develop?

He could develop an eating disorder which would be nice.

 

[SBU72]

Its almost like JB got tired of kids leaving early so he looked for kids who are prospects needing time to develop. Unfortunately thats 11 of 12 meaning there is nobody to play behind and learn.

 

[Alsacs]

Its almost like JB got tired of kids leaving early so he looked for kids who are prospects needing time to develop. Unfortunately thats 11 of 12 meaning there is nobody to play behind and learn.

If this team had a young Rick Jackson and young Scoop Jardine then I don't think the pessimism would be as strong.
Those 2 were top 75 recruits that needed time to develop.
We have no bigs who look like they will be Jackson on offense. Edwards has some upside but knows if he will develop. JBA was so raw he is redshirting because he wouldn't play.
Girard I am confident will develop. He just isn't a pure PG. He is a combo guard and he is playing PG because we need him.

If this roster had upside to look top 25 by March 2021 patience would be there. The frustration is not many people believe we have that upside and this roster will be flawed 2 years because of the recruiting and construction.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think JB saw a lot of it but I do think going into the year he thought Carey would be better and that Goodine could give us something right away. I think that is the biggest issue. I think he knew we were going to have our issues at the 5 but I don't think he expected to play JG3 this much or Buddy this much. I think that is one of our big issues. They cannot be both out there together. We really need Goodine to get more comfortable. I thought he would be able to do more out of the gate that he has.

 

[SUfanNC]

If this team had a young Rick Jackson and young Scoop Jardine then I don't think the pessimism would be as strong.
Those 2 were top 75 recruits that needed time to develop.
We have no bigs who look like they will be Jackson on offense. Edwards has some upside but knows if he will develop. JBA was so raw he is redshirting because he wouldn't play.
Girard I am confident will develop. He just isn't a pure PG. He is a combo guard and he is playing PG because we need him.

If this roster had upside to look top 25 by March 2021 patience would be there. The frustration is not many people believe we have that upside and this roster will be flawed 2 years because of the recruiting and construction.

Scoop? I remember people going nuts about him as a junior? with the turnovers. If that's the case let's see what Goodine can do. Seems like same situation but better athleticism and shooting

 

[Alsacs]

Scoop? I remember people going nuts about him as a junior? with the turnovers. If that's the case let's see what Goodine can do. Seems like same situation but better athleticism and shooting

Scoop in 2011 was a junior 12.5 PPG 5.9 APG in 30MPG.
The people going nuts care about style point. Scoop made some dumb plays but he was a good college PG.

Tyler Ennis had a better Fr year but since him I would take that year over Gillon or any other PG we have had.
I hope Goodine by his Junior year can give us that year from Scoop.

I don’t see Edwards or JBA becoming Rick.

 

[two3zone]

Scoop in 2011 was a junior 12.5 PPG 5.9 APG in 30MPG.
The people going nuts care about style point. Scoop made some dumb plays but he was a good college PG.

Tyler Ennis had a better Fr year but since him I would take that year over Gillon or any other PG we have had.
I hope Goodine by his Junior year can give us that year from Scoop.

I don’t see Edwards or JBA becoming Rick.

Scoop would be the MVP of this team.

 

[Sherman20]

Scoop in 2011 was a junior 12.5 PPG 5.9 APG in 30MPG.
The people going nuts care about style point. Scoop made some dumb plays but he was a good college PG.

Tyler Ennis had a better Fr year but since him I would take that year over Gillon or any other PG we have had.
I hope Goodine by his Junior year can give us that year from Scoop.

I don’t see Edwards or JBA becoming Rick.

I think Edwards looks like he has high upside potential. Weird that you don’t see that. His problem is that he’s a string bean at this stage while Rick had some bulk to him even as a freshman. Rick as a frosh also had some basic post skills and footwork fundamentals that could be built on. Jesse looks like he has that, too. He’s just too skinny right now and doesn’t know how to play in the zone yet.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Scoop would be the MVP of this team.

Better than Eli? It would be great to have him. He was always over criticizing in my opinion

 

[two3zone]

Better than Eli? It would be great to have him. He was always over criticizing in my opinion

I gave criticism to Scoop but stopped during his junior year when I realized he was still better than most guards he played against.

Elijah has been great so far, I don't really see him keeping up his pace. If he does then he's clearly better and will end up with one of the best seasons by a player in orange in a long time.

 

[oTTo113445]

Scoop in 2011 was a junior 12.5 PPG 5.9 APG in 30MPG.
The people going nuts care about style point. Scoop made some dumb plays but he was a good college PG.

Tyler Ennis had a better Fr year but since him I would take that year over Gillon or any other PG we have had.
I hope Goodine by his Junior year can give us that year from Scoop.

I don’t see Edwards or JBA becoming Rick.

I would take Gmac and MCW sophmore.
What they did in the tournament was awesome.


Cooney averaged 1.5 threes that year per game and 90% of those were assisted by Ennis. Fair and Jerami both had half court transition which upped ennis assist numbers, and isolation dribbles which lowered them. Fair Grant and Cooney really didn't pass much off each other, so Ennis ran 90% of the ball movement instead of 70%. That would not happen if Ennis was on this team because Dolezaj Hughes and Girard can all pass. Also, MCW averaged 7.3 assist to tylers 5.5.

I get the love for pg, but point is you really got to score before you can get a ton of assists. Hughes and Girard are assists machines but we can't score at the moment. I worry about Girard's defense, but the kid is pure hustle so only because of his height. Goodine is going to be a good one when he starts to score, because his defense is tough, and he gets his hands up.

Maybe Hughes will start to play some point more, and Girard will be able to break his man down and pull up more as the season goes along, and they can swap point on and off so Girard can play some devendorf like ball.

Gmacs big east title run was so amazing, given what he had around him, and so was Ennis 25-1.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

"How raw Guerrier is given all the amazing things I have read about him. "

There's your problem...believing preseason hype you read. Don't believe anything about any player till you see it at this level. Until you see even a glimpse of that, its all rumor. It's not fair to the player more than anything. I'm stupefied as to how even experienced fans underestimate the difference in skill / competition level between even top high school and run of the mill D1. It's not even the same sport. Those that are ridiculously talented to the point you can pretty much project them to be studs at the college level are such outliers that you simply cannot deny their ability. thats like 15-20 guys a year tops. for almost everyone else, it's pot luck as to who excels, who merely contributes, and who flames out.

 

[oTTo113445]

Center, A 3rd scoring guard, and point needed to be replaced out of thin air, given carey last year.
Miracles don't grow on trees.

Guerrier raw but upside easily Better than senior Tyler Roberson if he stays 4 years (not happening).

 

[Alsacs]

I think Edwards looks like he has high upside potential. Weird that you don’t see that. His problem is that he’s a string bean at this stage while Rick had some bulk to him even as a freshman. Rick as a frost also had some basic post skills and footwork fundamentals. Jesse looks like he has that, too. He’s just too skinny right now and doesn’t know how to play in the zone yet.

I like Edwards but there is no way to know if he has high upside potential.
He doesn’t get enough minutes to say that.
He has upside and I like him but Jackson was a top 75 recruit and showed in flashes as a freshman more.

We need Edwards to develop though.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I like Edwards but there is no way to know if he has high upside potential.
He doesn’t get enough minutes to say that.
He has upside and I like him but Jackson was a top 75 recruit and showed in flashes as a freshman more.

We need Edwards to develop though.

Well .. we know what we have in sidibe and when we put marek at the 5... so might as well give Edwards a lot of run given we ain’t doing anything this year