Didn't take long to shrink the bench

[jekelish]

Disagree that that lineup is our bigger strength than the fact that we have to 5 man rotations that might both be Top 25 caliber. Maybe that's just me, but if your second five is as good as ours is, why not give them a little more run?

 

[RF2044]

Disagree that that lineup is our bigger strength than the fact that we have to 5 man rotations that might both be Top 25 caliber. Maybe that's just me, but if your second five is as good as ours is, why not give them a little more run?

Three of the five players comprising that second unit got major, major run tonight--even in the second half [Waiters, Fair, Keita].

It's not like the first unit played at the expense of the non-starters.

 

[hungrychuck]

Guys--relax. This was our first game away from home, and if I'm not mistaken we were down by 7 in the second half. Boeheim went with guys he's more comfortable with [which meant that MCW, Rak, and Southerland sat] as we fought our way back, and then rode the hot hand the rest of the way.

There is no question that our young players need developmental playing time. For that matter, so do Fab / Keita and to a lesser extent, Dion / Fair. Hopefully they will get that opportunity after Friday, when we have a slate of more favorable games [other than the road game @ NC State] to get them plenty of run.

No, this was a home game, too. Doug G decreed it so pre-game.

 

[arbitragegls]

...reality vs. hope...the second half with Triche, Waiters, CJ, Melo and KJ was very good tonight...note that in a couple of other earlier games many of us mentioned Triche and Waiters are the better back court...and Waiters and Triche pass to each other and both are better shooters than Scoop. In some ways I feel badly for Scoop...but he will rebound and sure that in other games he will do just fine...but I believe the best 5 were on the floor for almost all of the 2nd half...Triche, Waiters, CJ, KJ and Melo....whew...almost didnt win that game...12 points is closer than I thought it would be...though the betting line was 'Cuse by 9...
The bench will get in and contribute, but JB was not about to let this game get away and he went with those he trusted...If you look at the stats he made good decisions:

KJ: 20 and 10 with 5 of 5 FT and 2 ass and 2stl
Triche: 18 and 5 assts with 4 of 6 from 3 pt range and 2 boards and 2 TO-2stl
Waiters: 11 and 4 assts and 2 TO-2stl
CJ: 12 and 9
Melo: 6 and 4 with 5 blocks
Scoop: 2 and 3 assts and no TOs
Keita: 0 and 1 and 2stls
Other than these guys...not much...I am surprised.

 

[longislandcuse]

I think our lineups will be dictated by the game. VT played Princeton ball and was draining contested threes. We needed to score when we had the ball and the lineup we used for the majority of the game did that. Sometimes short bench with different players as the guys, sometimes expanded bench. I think we see better bench production friday.

 

[billsin01]

Christmas needs game minutes. I don't care what he did in the first two minutes; this team is going to be worse for it two months from now if he gets the Fab treatment. Everyone saw what kind of defensive rebounding we have with Fair at the four.

The short bench was inevitable, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.

I think Xmas will get minutes but why is it disappointing that an opponent with some merit (ACC team at least) came out with an excellent game plan and executed it well? I mean, people who are frustrated should blame Greenburg's game plan and Green and Hudson's ability to make some plays.

 

[tbonezone]

i always get a chuckle out of the" 10 deep" threads.

 

[OttoMets]

Guys--relax. This was our first game away from home, and if I'm not mistaken we were down by 7 in the second half. Boeheim went with guys he's more comfortable with [which meant that MCW, Rak, and Southerland sat] as we fought our way back, and then rode the hot hand the rest of the way.

I appreciate that - once the Triche/Fair/Waiters group was clicking offensively and winning the game for us, Boeheim made the right choice in keeping those guys in.

But not starting Christmas in the second half? That's a little difficult to defend.

 

[690West]

Wait, I thought South was the most improved SU player ever?

I read that here, must be true.

Boeheim said postgame "my linear regression modeling told me to sit James"

 

[jekelish]

Three of the five players comprising that second unit got major, major run tonight--even in the second half [Waiters, Fair, Keita].

It's not like the first unit played at the expense of the non-starters.

Ryan - I know that, and I think I'm just not expressing myself well. I'm just saying that, while I know the people who were playing the best were on the floor, I just wish we had gotten a little more run for guys like Rak and MCW and Dirty because we are going to need them so the more PT they get, the better odd we will be.

 

[newmexicuse]

I have been a long time huge short bench critic, but tonight I had no argument. This was a struggle most of the way & once Jimmy found the right combo he stayed with it. The game really wasn't totally out of reach for VT until very late.

 

[RF2044]

Ryan - I know that, and I think I'm just not expressing myself well. I'm just saying that, while I know the people who were playing the best were on the floor, I just wish we had gotten a little more run for guys like Rak and MCW and Dirty because we are going to need them so the more PT they get, the better odd we will be.

FWIW, I expected James to get more PT, given how he'd been playing. I'd have guessed that he would have earned that latitude from JB to get in the game during the 2nd half.

Wish we had a natural 4 ready to play major minutes...

 

[billsin01]

Guys--relax. This was our first game away from home, and if I'm not mistaken we were down by 7 in the second half. Boeheim went with guys he's more comfortable with [which meant that MCW, Rak, and Southerland sat] as we fought our way back, and then rode the hot hand the rest of the way.

There is no question that our young players need developmental playing time. For that matter, so do Fab / Keita and to a lesser extent, Dion / Fair. Hopefully they will get that opportunity after Friday, when we have a slate of more favorable games [other than the road game @ NC State] to get them plenty of run.

Agreed. And while we're at it, why is everyone taking one game and treating it like a large sample? I personally think MCW may find minutes hard to come by vs. real competition, but Southerland and Christmas are going to get opportunities. AND, they're going to have games where they don't get a ton of minutes.


Other things driving me nuts about this thread:

-- people acting like MCW getting 7 minutes instead of 3 -- or whatever has some sort of discernible impact on his development.

-- People acting like this game was won when we initially went up by double-digits halfway through the second half.

 

[rrlbees]

Everyone saw what kind of defensive rebounding we have with Fair at the four.

Actually CJ led the team with 7 def rebs.

 

[OttoMets]

I think Xmas will get minutes but why is it disappointing that an opponent with some merit (ACC team at least) came out with an excellent game plan and executed it well? I mean, people who are frustrated should blame Greenburg's game plan and Green and Hudson's ability to make some plays.

I just think it's a little early to toss Christmas to the end of the bench after a defensive lapse 90 seconds into the game. We're going to need better defensive rebounding this year than we'll get from the line-up that played the second half tonight. I'm not saying Christmas would've earned major second-half minutes tonight, but he probably should've started the second half.

 

[orangefan13]

Easier to go 10 deep when you have a leader. If KJO becomes that guy we can.

Tonight Triche, Dion, KJO, gave us 49 of our 69 points. Melo and Fair gave us the other 18 and scoop was the only other guy to score.

Thats why we rode them. CJ had 9 rebounds, is maybe our most scrappy player, and knows his defensive responsibilities right now better then Xmas.

It was all efficiency to win today with VT slowing the game down and not turning it over to much in the first half. JB simply played his best efficient team and the one that took the game over.

Scoop has got to learn to create in a no high post offense. Hes not there yet.

 

[OttoMets]

Actually CJ led the team with 7 def rebs.

He did well - including that last one where Burr called the walk after CJ got fouled.

But we gave up a good number of offensive boards when Fab was coming out to defend a shot 12 feet from the hoop. Fair was overmatched half a dozen times, and Tech's not a particularly big team.

 

[jekelish]

Agreed. And while we're at it, why is everyone taking one game and treating it like a large sample? I personally think MCW may find minutes hard to come by vs. real competition, but Southerland and Christmas are going to get opportunities. AND, they're going to have games where they don't get a ton of minutes.


Other things driving me nuts about this thread:

-- people acting like MCW getting 7 minutes instead of 3 -- or whatever has some sort of discernible impact on his development.

-- People acting like this game was won when we initially went up by double-digits halfway through the second half.

Well, this game WAS won when we went up by double digits. Hell, I'd say this game was won as soon as we took the lead. Is there anyone who had any doubt we would lose at that point? I know I felt like it was game, set, match as soon as CJ scored those 5 straight. Knew VA Tech was done then.

 

[rrlbees]

FWIW, I expected James to get more PT, given how he'd been playing.

Wish we had a natural 4 ready to play major minutes...

James problem is defense. When he got taken out it was after he looked bad on the 3 but them came down court and didn't rotate at all and an easy 3 was made by VT. He always looks good against weak teams but struggles a lot against decent teams. He is a great shooter but seems to force them or hurry. Plus he can't create his own shot at all. His D is below average too. But there will be games where nobody is shooting the 3 well and JB will try him and if he is hitting some, he'll play. I like him the most in the press guarding the inbound pass.

 

[RF2044]

Easier to go 10 deep when you have a leader. If KJO becomes that guy we can.

Tonight Triche, Dion, KJO, gave us 49 of our 69 points. Melo and Fair gave us the other 18 and scoop was the only other guy to score.

Thats why we rode them. CJ had 9 rebounds, is maybe our most scrappy player, and knows his defensive responsibilities right now better then Xmas.

It was all efficiency to win today with VT slowing the game down and not turning it over to much in the first half. JB simply played his best efficient team and the one that took the game over.

Scoop has got to learn to create in a no high post offense. Hes not there yet.

Maybe it's just me--but hyperbole aside, didn't Scoop actually play reasonably well in limited minutes tonight?

Didn't shoot well [missed some shots], but he contributed several assists and I don't recall any turnovers.

 

[OttoMets]

James problem is defense. When he got taken out it was after he looked bad on the 3 but them came down court and didn't rotate at all and an easy 3 was made by VT. He always looks good against weak teams but struggles a lot against decent teams. He is a great shooter but seems to force them or hurry. Plus he can't create his own shot at all. His D is below average too. But there will be games where nobody is shooting the 3 well and JB will try him and if he is hitting some, he'll play. I like him the most in the press guarding the inbound pass.

And an offensive rebound hit him right in the shoulder when he was open underneath the hoop.

The game seems to move a little fast for him against the better teams.

 

[jekelish]

Agreed, Scoop didn't play great but he also didn't do anything I'd qualify as "bad" so I chalk that up as a win.

 

[Marsh01]

Maybe it's just me--but hyperbole aside, didn't Scoop actually play reasonably well in limited minutes tonight?

Didn't shoot well [missed some shots], but he contributed several assists and I don't recall any turnovers.

I said the same thing. He didnt play bad, just Dion and Brandon were on fire so why rock the boat.

 

[RF2044]

James problem is defense. When he got taken out it was after he looked bad on the 3 but them came down court and didn't rotate at all and an easy 3 was made by VT. He always looks good against weak teams but struggles a lot against decent teams. He is a great shooter but seems to force them or hurry. Plus he can't create his own shot at all. His D is below average too. But there will be games where nobody is shooting the 3 well and JB will try him and if he is hitting some, he'll play. I like him the most in the press guarding the inbound pass.

Agreed. I've been pleased by Southerland's impressive play thus far, but I figured that his playing time would come down to what he can bring to the table besides shooting--rebounding, defense, hustle, etc.

He didn't do himself any favors not contributing in those ways tonight, but hopefully he'll get it straightened out and earn back some PT.

 

[arbitragegls]

agreed...he played okay but the team lacked fire when he was in...he had 2 pts, 3 assts and no TO...but fact is JB substituted Waiters and off they went...he could not pull Triche with 18 pts, 4-6 from 3 pt range and 5 assts and Waiters and Triche played well. Scoop will be back...but he does not move the team as does either Waiters and Triche...he just keeps ball in his hands too long...