Dino Babers didn’t sink Syracuse football; free agency did (Guest Opinion by Robyn E. Jobity)

[CousCuse]

It's not that there aren't recruits to be had, it's just that there aren't enough. Do you know where you go Duck hunting? Where the Ducks are.

The best athletes who play football in football states are fully developed and are 4 and 5 star guys who Syracuse doesn't stand a chance at landing. The top athletes in upstate who play football have low or no rating because they are undeveloped. If Jobity grew up in Georgia, Syracuse would have had no chance to get him. There are significant numbers of other players out there similar to him who have huge upsides, much more than the leftover 3 star guys from football states. They just have to be identified.

 

[CNYGuy]

And I think most sane observers would say that the portal has been pretty solidly net-positive for Syracuse.

Only a handful (like, 2) guys who left have been impactful at their next stop.

Meanwhile, we've brought in a bunch of former 4* guys that we all woulda been exceedingly happy in our pants, had we signed them directly from HS.
Our starting QB1 for the past nearly 3 seasons was a portal transfer.
As was his backup.

So - kinda hard to take Dino's whining about the portal seriously.
He and we woulda been MUCH worse off, if it didn't exist.

I don’t really agree.

The only two positions I see that we upgraded talent on on this year’s team through the portal was 1. Garrett Shrader, and I suspect if he transfered in the NIL era, he might not be here. We lost our backup and commit on signing day in that same position group in the NIL/portal age. 2. Alijah Clark has been very good defensively.

- Bellamy is a fine player, but he’s not better than Duce.
- Carter is significantly better than Simmons.
- Geer and Linton could definitely help the DL’s nonexistent pass rush.
- I’d even say Courtney Jackson would be an upgrade over some of our WR room.
- I’ll give Jason Beck the credit on Villari. He came here as a QB and then our staff turned him into a TE and developed him. He didn’t come in as an immediate impact transfer.

The bigger issue is we haven’t been able to replenish the roster as our peers have.

I don’t view that as a net positive at all and we need to pour money into NIL immediately for the next coach to be able to fix this.

*edit: forgot Wohlabaugh because he only played two game and More because he played ?? Zero? Reed is a JUCO kid. Those always existed before the portal

 

[dollarbill44]

Exactly NIL wasn’t around in 2019 when the wheels started to come off

We've also lost a handful of guys every season to general attrition (grades, injuries, homesickness, whatever) for as long as I can remember. We have gotten guys through the portal as well, that have garnered meaningful playing time.

Not all of our losses this season can be attributed solely to talent (VT, BC and GT). This goes for pretty much every season in the Babers era.

NIL and the portal are factors, for sure, but not the only, or even necessarily, the main factors. It might eventually get that way, however.

 

[Trueblue25]

No and he wasn’t the guy we hired as soon as he got his extension. What happened to the locker room speeches? Going for it on 4th down a lot? Seemed to lose his fire completely

He had to recruit his own guys and isn’t a strong recruiter. Lost Lewis too. Mike Lynch held together this squad big time

 

[OrangePA]

I really like Dino as a person and I think he has been a fantastic mentor to the players in preparing them for life. Unfortunately, NIL and the transfer portal had nothing to do with questionable clock and game management, an absurd number of penalties, and a strength and conditioning program that never seemed to overcome a plague of injuries.

The sum of her letter is right - Syracuse University has a distinct disadvantage whenever money is at issue.

The fact is that every coach is criticized for clock management. Here in Philly, Andy Reid - one of the greatest coaches of all time - was roundly criticized for his supposed "time management issues."

Nobody can control injuries - certainly not a conditioning coach.

Again, here in Philly, the Eagles had very few if any major injuries last year. This year they are getting crushed with injuries - with the same conditioning staff.

Regarding penalties, it seems to me that the game is so subjective - the calls are so arbitrary at times - that assessing a coaching staff or attributing a loss to penalties is a very difficult thing to do.

Dino didn't quite win enough games. The Administration felt the pressure and had to make a move.

 

[OrangePA]

We've also lost a handful of guys every season to general attrition (grades, injuries, homesickness, whatever) for as long as I can remember. We have gotten guys through the portal as well, that have garnered meaningful playing time.

Not all of our losses this season can be attributed solely to talent (VT, BC and GT). This goes for pretty much every season in the Babers era.

NIL and the portal are factors, for sure, but not the only, or even necessarily, the main factors. It might eventually get that way, however.

We were clearly hurt this year at the QB position.

A strength became a big weakness that made it very difficult to beat teams that we would ordinarily have beaten.

 

[Ozcuse]

The sum of her letter is right - Syracuse University has a distinct disadvantage whenever money is at issue.

The fact is that every coach is criticized for clock management. Here in Philly, Andy Reid - one of the greatest coaches of all time - was roundly criticized for his supposed "time management issues."

Nobody can control injuries - certainly not a conditioning coach.

Again, here in Philly, the Eagles had very few if any major injuries last year. This year they are getting crushed with injuries - with the same conditioning staff.

Regarding penalties, it seems to me that the game is so subjective - the calls are so arbitrary at times - that assessing a coaching staff or attributing a loss to penalties is a very difficult thing to do.

Dino didn't quite win enough games. The Administration felt the pressure and had to make a move.

Off topic but I wouldn’t say the Eagles have been “crushed by injuries” at 9-1.

The Bills defense and W-L record on the other hand…

 

[oldpinepoint]

We were clearly hurt this year at the QB position.

A strength became a big weakness that made it very difficult to beat teams that we would ordinarily have beaten.

I would argue it was never a strength.

 

[IthacaMatt]

However, in regards to Dino and his tenure, the portal/NIL is a red herring. Portal temptations had virtually nothing to do with our QB, WR and OL depth charts as they currently stand. We lost Lamson because he wasn't given an opportunity to compete for a starting job, and that's it. We haven't lost a single 2 deep member at those 3 position groups of consequence other than him. And the depth on the offensive side of the ball by far was the overriding issue with Dino's tenure, not just this year but in the 3-4 years preceding this year. The OL and WR recruiting woes post 2019 largely are in my opinion the main reason that Tommy DeVito was not successful here, and we've consistently had no legitimate option 2 at QB beyond the starter during those years.

And I'm sorry - Dino referencing NIL in the context he did was an excuse. Period.

While I agree that there is a bit of excuse making going on here, I see the portal / NIL impact from the other perspective - the quality of players we were able to get to come here, rather than the ones we lost.

The offensive linemen we got we OK - Richmond and Kentucky - but not top tier. We could have used some better depth at WR, and maybe we just couldn't offer enough money to get adequate guys, guys with talent.

That's also why I would kind of prefer a name coach to the guy from Holy Cross. Not many recruits are going to pick up the phone and be "wowed" by that guy who they never heard of before.

 

[dasher]

The best athletes who play football in football states are fully developed and are 4 and 5 star guys who Syracuse doesn't stand a chance at landing. The top athletes in upstate who play football have low or no rating because they are undeveloped. If Jobity grew up in Georgia, Syracuse would have had no chance to get him. There are significant numbers of other players out there similar to him who have huge upsides, much more than the leftover 3 star guys from football states. They just have to be identified.

Well, I guess that is all UMass and UConn and B.C. have to do to be real good, right? There are more good players in half of Broward county than all of New York and New England.

 

[Jake]

All I read here is that Dino made an impact on his players and their families. That is to be appreciated and applauded.

The bottom line is he didn’t win enough…that’s it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

While I agree that there is a bit of excuse making going on here, I see the portal / NIL impact from the other perspective - the quality of players we were able to get to come here, rather than the ones we lost.

The offensive linemen we got we OK - Richmond and Kentucky - but not top tier. We could have used some better depth at WR, and maybe we just couldn't offer enough money to get adequate guys, guys with talent.

That's also why I would kind of prefer a name coach to the guy from Holy Cross. Not many recruits are going to pick up the phone and be "wowed" by that guy who they never heard of before.

Wohlabaugh was doing well and seemingly solidified right tackle before he went down.

 

[tep624]

Wohlabaugh was doing well and seemingly solidified right tackle before he went down.

Yeah he was one of our better portal pickups at a position of need.

 

[CousCuse]

Well, I guess that is all UMass and UConn and B.C. have to do to be real good, right? There are more good players in half of Broward county than all of New York and New England.

There are 36 million people living in the New York/New England region, and a whole lot of high school football programs. Hard to believe there aren't a goodly number of developable athletes in that large of a number. Something pertinent to this to this thread: Mora had a press conference the other day gave an NIL number he said UConn needs to be competitive in the G5 ranks. He said they need $1.5 million. Does Syracuse have an idea of a NIL amount they need to be competitive in the ACC?

 

[richmondcuse03]

All I read here is that Dino made an impact on his players and their families. That is to be appreciated and applauded.

The bottom line is he didn’t win enough…that’s it.

bingo. Good people get fired all the time. He was paid a lot to win more. It’s part of the gig. And honestly, he made it worse on himself with how he blamed others and didn’t market the program. If you want It to be all about wins on Saturday, you better win.

 

[dasher]

There are 36 million people living in the New York/New England region, and a whole lot of high school football programs. Hard to believe there aren't a goodly number of developable athletes in that large of a number. Something pertinent to this to this thread: Mora had a press conference the other day gave an NIL number he said UConn needs to be competitive in the G5 ranks. He said they need $1.5 million. Does Syracuse have an idea of a NIL amount they need to be competitive in the ACC?

Of course they do. And they are doing their best to help the school get there. A few things you need to know. One, the school lies about money like a two dollar whore. Second, while we are not where we want to be or even need to be , we are competitive with our peer schools in the league.

 

[dasher]

The sum of her letter is right - Syracuse University has a distinct disadvantage whenever money is at issue.

The fact is that every coach is criticized for clock management. Here in Philly, Andy Reid - one of the greatest coaches of all time - was roundly criticized for his supposed "time management issues."

Nobody can control injuries - certainly not a conditioning coach.

Again, here in Philly, the Eagles had very few if any major injuries last year. This year they are getting crushed with injuries - with the same conditioning staff.

Regarding penalties, it seems to me that the game is so subjective - the calls are so arbitrary at times - that assessing a coaching staff or attributing a loss to penalties is a very difficult thing to do.

Dino didn't quite win enough games. The Administration felt the pressure and had to make a move.

Come on. There is being criticized and then there is the way Dino handled game and clock management. If you watched the last 8 years, and I know you did, you know better.

 

[OrangePA]

Come on. There is being criticized and then there is the way Dino handled game and clock management. If you watched the last 8 years, and I know you did, you know better.

Sorry.

I am not with the group think on this issue.

My experience over many years has been that at one time or another every coach gets criticized for poor "clock management" issues.

Did I disagree with Babers' decisions on occasion - whether to kick a FG or go for it?

Sure, but that's micro stuff in my opinion. Every coach gets questioned on those decisions.

I hope the next guy does better. But, it will take better players and more of them.

And that will require a greater level of investment in the Program.

I hope it happens.

 

[dasher]

Sorry.

I am not with the group think on this issue.

My experience over many years has been that at one time or another every coach gets criticized for poor "clock management" issues.

Did I disagree with Babers' decisions on occasion - whether to kick a FG or go for it?

Sure, but that's micro stuff in my opinion. Every coach gets questioned on those decisions.

I hope the next guy does better. But, it will take better players and more of them.

And that will require a greater level of investment in the Program.

I hope it happens.

He did a poor job. His record speaks for itself. He put out a boring product. Could we do worse. We have. But we have to try. The rest of that group think, don't want to settle for what we have seen.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Sorry.

I am not with the group think on this issue.

My experience over many years has been that at one time or another every coach gets criticized for poor "clock management" issues.

Did I disagree with Babers' decisions on occasion - whether to kick a FG or go for it?

Sure, but that's micro stuff in my opinion. Every coach gets questioned on those decisions.

I hope the next guy does better. But, it will take better players and more of them.

And that will require a greater level of investment in the Program.

I hope it happens.

Dino got better players than the person before. And he got more investment than the person before. He didn’t produce. I was one of his biggest supporters. But things changed. It doesn’t mean we’re not investing in the program. The simple fact that we’re changing coaches means we are. We bought him out and others.

We’re investing more in athletics now than we ever have. At some point folks have to produce.

 

[OrangePA]

He did a poor job. His record speaks for itself. he put out a boring product. Could we do worse. We have. But we have to try. The rest of that group think, don't want to settle for what we have seen.

I didn't find Schrader to be boring.

I didn't find Villari to be boring either.

As a matter of fact, I thought the last two games - including the Ga Tech game - were interesting.

I thought the staff showed a lot of ingenuity on offense. And I liked Rocky Long's defensive approach.

In the end, Dino lost too many games.

I get it.

I really hope the next guy does better.

 

[dasher]

I didn't find Schrader to be boring.

I didn't find Villari to be boring either.

As a matter of fact, I thought the last two games - including the Ga Tech game - were interesting.

I thought the staff showed a lot of ingenuity on offense. And I liked Rocky Long's defensive approach.

In the end, Dino lost too many games.

I get it.

I really hope the next guy does better.

Villari is a good example. I thought he should have been playing more as soon as I saw him play, earlier in the year. I wonder why it took so long?

 

[dasher]

I didn't find Schrader to be boring.

I didn't find Villari to be boring either.

As a matter of fact, I thought the last two games - including the Ga Tech game - were interesting.

I thought the staff showed a lot of ingenuity on offense. And I liked Rocky Long's defensive approach.

In the end, Dino lost too many games.

I get it.

I really hope the next guy does better.

You thought we played exciting football this year? We disagree.

 

[Bulldog04]

Villari is a good example. I thought he should have been playing more as soon as I saw him play, earlier in the year. I wonder why it took so long?

Bc Dino didn’t know what he was doing. Same way he didn’t even know Sean Tucker was that good until 2 guys in front of him went down with injuries. Only reason he “burst onto the scene”. Villari is freak athlete and should have been playing. And on the flip side, a lot of guys shouldn’t have been playing that Dino thought we’re good

 

[dasher]

Bc Dino didn’t know what he was doing. Same way he didn’t even know Sean Tucker was that good until 2 guys in front of him went down with injuries. Only reason he “burst onto the scene”. Villari is freak athlete and should have been playing. And on the flip side, a lot of guys shouldn’t have been playing that Dino thought we’re good

Look, there can be a lot of spin about all of this. But the penalties, year after year, game after game, speak for themselves. If the next guy does a better job with that, we are ahead of the game.