Dion: best all around Cuse guard ever in the modern era. Please discuss.

[obliterata]

Pearl is the best SU guard ever to me in the modern era. He owned the ball and let his teammates touch it sometimes. If Waiters continues to play well, comes back for another year (doubtful), and has another great year maybe he moves into the second spot ahead of Sherm.

I should say that my "modern era" started when Roy Danforth took over and Dave Bing is ineligible for this discussion.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Let's see what happens when defenses start consistently double-teaming him. If he continues to thrive, we will know that we are truly witnessing a special player.

I hope they do double team him. Who are they going to leave open. Dion is bigger and stronger than most guards that he will just pass the ball to the open man. I wonder where Albanycuse is. His heart might have exploded watching his "mancrush" play.

 

[SourShoes]

Ever watch closely at Dion's play? This dude is ferocious at the top of the zone. Active as hell, hands waving.. slides well. He is bought in and committed. This guy may be the best guard we have had here.

 

[memcorsu]

I will have to wait and see what happens when he becomes a starter. It reminds me when KJ was the sixth man; everyone keyed in on WJ and KJ was awesome. Many, including myself, thought that when he came in fulltime as a starter last year he was going to be dominate which did not happen. He did have the injury that hurt him a bit. There is a difference when you come off the bench and when you start. DW is facing different schemes, energy levels, players, etc... I think it would be a mistake for either he or Fab to make the jump this year (going to be a deep draft of prospects with "potential") both need to spend one more year solidifying their ability/worth to NBA scouts.

 

[wallacecuse]

[quote/] He needs to model his game after another 6'4'' guy with the initials D.W.[/quote]

Dion's open court dunks are very much DWade-like...honestly, the physical resemblance is remarkable.

 

[SoBristol]

I will have to wait and see what happens when he becomes a starter. It reminds me when KJ was the sixth man. Everyone keyed in on WJ and KJ was awesome. Many, including myself, thought that when he came in fulltime as a starter last year he was going to be dominate and which did not happen. He did have the injury that hurt him a bit. There is a difference when you come off the bench and when you start. DW is facing different schemes, energy levels, players, etc... I think it would be a mistake for either he or Fab to make the jump this year (going to be a deep draft of prospects with "potential") and both need to spend one more year solidifying their ability/worth to NBA scouts.

It is a lot different from when KJ was the sixth man and the 4th option, while playing with AO, Rautins & Wes. Defenses were always overplaying those 3 and KJ was left with open lanes. When Dion comes in, everyone in the hall knows he is the guy.

And, unfortunately, any scout will see what we see in Dion (as well as Fab).

 

[SaintTristan]

Last yr I was really surprised how many of you missed the mark on Dion. I know most of you have no idea how to spot talent, but even the ones who have a clue missed this kid's natural talent.

He is the best SU guard since Pearl. Sherm is a distant second. Dion's defense is scary. and on offense he has a gear that other guards just haven't had. college hoops is about efficiency and Dion is one of the most efficient players we have had in a long time.

He needs to increase his 3 pt %. His jumper is otherwise fine.

we are lucky the kid didnt listen to the posters on this board and transfer. he needs one more yr here. Leave after his jr yr.

 

[Frisbee]

Some would say that Sherm is the best in the ESPN era, but the Pearl is definitely the the standard where all guards at the Cuse and the BE were judged on. But let's talk about all around. Defense, passing, driving, shooting. We have been fortunate to have had GMAC, Andy, Dave Johnson, Lawrence Moten, Sims, Hart, etc, but it just seems like when Dion is in the game this season he is so much better than anyone else out there. I know it's only been 15 games this season, and I'm not an NBA scout, but I think I know major league talent when I see it.

It appears that you are defining the "modern era" as the "ESPN era". I'm ok with that definition, but I would point out that it eliminates from consideration probably the best guard and maybe the best Syracuse player of all time-- Dave Bing. I know that not many of the current Orange fans saw Bing play, but as a classmate of his, I can assure you that he was truly an extraordinary player. I have followed SU basketball since the early 60's and I have seen them all. This is not to detract from Dion's athletic achievements. He is very good and maybe will be great. I would like to wait at least another year before annointing him as the "best".

 

[memcorsu]

It is a lot different from when KJ was the sixth man and the 4th option, while playing with AO, Rautins & Wes. Defenses were always overplaying those 3 and KJ was left with open lanes. When Dion comes in, everyone in the hall knows he is the guy.

And, unfortunately, any scout will see what we see in Dion (as well as Fab).

I think that both could do well in the draft and NBA but, with this years draft, I think both will be served better and go higher by holding out another year. Baring them both completely going nuts and exploding in the second half of the season which is way tougher then the first.

 

[Flacusian]

It's certainly thrilling to see what Dion has showed up with this year. His explosiveness is jawdropping and aside from the physical aspect of his game, his mental transformation is remarkable as well. Having seen Pearl play, Dion has a ways to go to actually be considered on par with Dwayne Washington. He could breakdown defenders off the dribble like no other I've ever seen and was a threat to beat you with a buzzer beater 3 as well. Pearl, Melo were 2 that were completely unguardable. It seemed they just imposed their will on the other team. It is also different to compare players from what has become different eras as well. Both Sherm, Pearl had multiple seasons to compile their "body of work".

 

[SoBristol]

I think that both could do well in the draft and NBA but, with this years draft, I think both will be served better and go higher by holding out another year. Baring them both completely going nuts and exploding in the second half of the season which is way tougher then the first.

You are right about the second half, of course. Not many teams will play us like DePaul did yesterday -- pretty obvious that teams should try to force us into a half court game, not let Dion get into the lane, and see if we can make outside shots.
DePaul's tactics will go into the book of "what not to do against this SU team". Marquette & Villanovo will have read that book.

 

[OttoMets]

better shooter than Tyreke Evans by a landslide

Probably, but Evans is 6'6". That's a tremendous advantage.

 

[longislandcuse]

All I know is ive watched a decent amount of college basketball this year and I can honestly say that there is not one guard who is definatively better than Dion Waiters. He reminds me of Kemba with size which equates to D Wade.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

How soon Dennis Duval is forgotten. People used to come to games early just to watch him warm up. Great college player and spent a few years in the pre-expansion NBA.
Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

 

[JoeSU]

I think this discussion is a bit premature. Let's revisit the subject once his career at SU is completed, and we can make a comparison based on his total body of work. It also seems that some of the posters never actually saw Douglas play while he was here, so I don't see how one can make a valid comparison.

 

[orangefan13]

Waiters midrange jumper smokes Johnny's as a sophmore not even close. And he is a layup stud so far this year with layups further from the hoop and change of direction with his height.

Flynn had a hard time with a good defender in the middle. Although Dion hasn't really gone against a good defender in the middle this year yet.

But also have to say Melo may be a better low post threat then Rick as a sophmore.

Dion is starting to hit jumpers offbalence and fade aways with easy confidence right now.

 

[longislandcuse]

Waiters midrange jumper smokes Johnny's as a sophmore not even close. And he is a layup stud so far this year with layups further from the hoop and change of direction with his height.

Flynn had a hard time with a good defender in the middle. Although Dion hasn't really gone against a good defender in the middle this year yet.

But also have to say Melo may be a better low post threat then Rick as a sophmore.

Dion is starting to hit jumpers offbalence and fade aways with easy confidence right now.

For the life of me I dont understand why we dont run more plays for Melo. Even with his back to the basket he looks like he has a baby hook and dropstep move, which is really all you need as a big strong 7 foot Center. He has a nice looking jumpshot as well. Im hoping the Depaul game was us realizing he can dominate downlow.

 

[elkeed]

Waiters midrange jumper smokes Johnny's as a sophmore not even close. And he is a layup stud so far this year with layups further from the hoop and change of direction with his height.

Flynn had a hard time with a good defender in the middle. Although Dion hasn't really gone against a good defender in the middle this year yet.

But also have to say Melo may be a better low post threat then Rick as a sophmore.

Dion is starting to hit jumpers offbalence and fade aways with easy confidence right now.

Love your last line. Dion can both get and create his shot. Scoop was right a month ago when he called his cuz the best player in the country. He sees that stuff every day in practice. Dion's good and he knows it. When that attitude is chanelled properly like it is now, look out!

 

[memcorsu]

All I know is ive watched a decent amount of college basketball this year and I can honestly say that there is not one guard who is definatively better than Dion Waiters. He reminds me of Kemba with size which equates to D Wade.

I whole heartedly agree that DW is a good talent and one of the better guards in the nation. I would take him over an Austin Rivers any day. DW has that swagger/killer instinct that all the greats have. Best summed up as, "I can beat anyone any night" and they prove it. I would not yet call him the greatestt. I do think he has all the attributes to be one of the special elite players who come around every so often. I don't think he is there yet. Do I think he will be? That is up to DW. If he can channel the ego, put in the time, and hold off making the jump there is a great possiblity he might be, not only, one of the greatest guards if not the best at SU but possibly go down as one of the better/best in the history of college bball.

The biggest issue that I have with leaving early is so many great college players sit at the end of the bench and don't get the "game time" minutes to further their skills. Just have to look at Flynn, Donte, Wes, etc... and see how much more they would have developed by staying and playing a bit more college ball instead of sitting on the end of a bench. All though the NBA is about potential, it is also about first impressions. If you do not make some kind of splash coming in you ride the pine and that is a death penalty to a NBA career. It is very hard to get out of the bottom of the roster and they quickly fill the spot you came in with with another "potential guy" or a vet. It really is a meat factory and you hear often how players are qouted that they enjoyed the college game far more than the pro game. Added to the fact that a kid that is in school for multiple years is usually far more responsible than a one and done. Many times kids who make the jump, have a short stint with a bench career, and squander their money on "bling" leave with less in their pockets and no degree to start a career.

You must forgive me but after seeing so many good players come to SU and buying into the hype, I am a bit more cautious to anonit people this or that. Im just excited about Tuesday and the blessing I have in being able to, hopefully!!! Darn TV coverage,watch my favorite team continue a magic run while playing fun bball to watch. Santa called and told me that my Christmas present should be arriving in April as long as the elves don't misplace it .

 

[longislandcuse]

I hope JB uses Flynn and Donte as examples for Dion. Who knows, maybe Donte even gives Dion a call. Dion, next year could be THE best player in college basketball and a top 5 pick. Hell, if Kyrie Irving can go #1, so can Dion. Next year he could be beyond dominant while playing pg, which is what he will be in the NBA.

 

[CusefanATL]

He's probably the best at getting to the basket.

Edelman could get to the hoop pretty well

Edelin... Damn iPad autocorrect

 

[Eric15]

I hope JB uses Flynn and Donte as examples for Dion. Who knows, maybe Donte even gives Dion a call. Dion, next year could be THE best player in college basketball and a top 5 pick. Hell, if Kyrie Irving can go #1, so can Dion. Next year he could be beyond dominant while playing pg, which is what he will be in the NBA.

I agree with you re: Donte, but disagree re: Flynn. I think Flynn made the right move in leaving early - his stock was skyhigh following all the national pub he got in that 2009 BET, and staying another year would have only made his limitations more visible and resulted in going lower than #6 overall.

 

[longislandcuse]

I agree with you re: Donte, but disagree re: Flynn. I think Flynn made the right move in leaving early - his stock was skyhigh following all the national pub he got in that 2009 BET, and staying another year would have only made his limitations more visible and resulted in going lower than #6 overall.

True on Flynn, I just meant Flynn letting Dion know what he has to work on and show he can do to be a player in the NBA and not just one big contract followed by sitting on the bench.

 

[jsshap]

I hope JB uses Flynn and Donte as examples for Dion. Who knows, maybe Donte even gives Dion a call. Dion, next year could be THE best player in college basketball and a top 5 pick. Hell, if Kyrie Irving can go #1, so can Dion. Next year he could be beyond dominant while playing pg, which is what he will be in the NBA.

Flynn will always be one of my favorite SU players and I hated to see him go, of course, but its hard if not impossible to argue that he made a mistake. The UConn game elevated him nationally to the point that it was a pretty easy choice. Not a no brainer, because these decisions are personal and what is the right choice for one may not be the right choice for another (ie hansborough) but I dont think anyone can reasonably cite Flynn as a reason Dion (or anyone) should stay.

The beauty of SU's program right now is they will be ok with a defection or two. If Dion and Melo both return, that team will be the most talented team ever at SU. Even better than this year. I like Scoop but the backcourt next year would be as good or likely better than the backcourt this year, with a Sr. Triche, a Jr. Waiters, a Soph. MWC, and either Cooney or Jones. And the loss of Joseph is huge, but all in all the front court with some combination of Melo, Coleman, Fair, Christmas, Southerland, Keita will also be as good or likely better.

But even if Cuse loses both of them, they are still gonna be top 10 and a legit contender in my view. And that is a ringing endorsement on the state of the program. My hope is that 1 stays and this team comes back really loaded. Of the 2, I'd rather lose Melo than Waiters, primarily b/c Coleman comes in. But I will be really excited to see this team next year, even if its a starting lineup of Triche, MCW, Fair, Christmas and Coleman, with a bench of Southerland, Keita, Cooney, Jones, Grant. Sorry to digress off topic of this thread.

 

[longislandcuse]

Flynn will always be one of my favorite SU players and I hated to see him go, of course, but its hard if not impossible to argue that he made a mistake. The UConn game elevated him nationally to the point that it was a pretty easy choice. Not a no brainer, because these decisions are personal and what is the right choice for one may not be the right choice for another (ie hansborough) but I dont think anyone can reasonably cite Flynn as a reason Dion (or anyone) should stay.

The beauty of SU's program right now is they will be ok with a defection or two. If Dion and Melo both return, that team will be the most talented team ever at SU. Even better than this year. I like Scoop but the backcourt next year would be as good or likely better than the backcourt this year, with a Sr. Triche, a Jr. Waiters, a Soph. MWC, and either Cooney or Jones. And the loss of Joseph is huge, but all in all the front court with some combination of Melo, Coleman, Fair, Christmas, Southerland, Keita will also be as good or likely better.

But even if Cuse loses both of them, they are still gonna be top 10 and a legit contender in my view. And that is a ringing endorsement on the state of the program. My hope is that 1 stays and this team comes back really loaded. Of the 2, I'd rather lose Melo than Waiters, primarily b/c Coleman comes in. But I will be really excited to see this team next year, even if its a starting lineup of Triche, MCW, Fair, Christmas and Coleman, with a bench of Southerland, Keita, Cooney, Jones, Grant. Sorry to digress off topic of this thread.

Also if Melo leaves that opens up the crowded frontcourt for one or some of our next possible recruits, whether its Noel, Anya and/or Goodluck.