DL 2020 - Lots of Holes to Fill

RICuse44

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I have a question to any one who can figure it out. Why is black in a weird ass stance so far off ball 1.5 yards off and throws hands but never try’s to hit a gap. Why is his but down and not up like he is ready to kill someone.
Agree. I have no idea why he was doing this and toward the end of the wake game all four of the d lineman were doing it.

Other than on passing downs I do not see black as an interior d lineman. He gets flushed to easily.
 

RICuse44

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I will die on this vine. I don't have snap count data, but there are whole series that focus on running behind his blocks.
What about next year though with Hackett and benson? And connors is back too. I think any of them can deliver what Elmore did- blocking- plus have better hands. I think the need at d tackle is much greater
 

kcsu

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I think we'll see Zach Morton in the rotation at DE. Just a hunch. DT looks decent to me with a rotation of Williams/Black/Elmore/Harper. A couple of younger guys could surprise and contribute there. DE is thin. I think it'll be KJ/Richards/Morton/?.
If we can land a Juco or grad transfer at DT i wonder if they move Black outside.
 

reedny

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This thread title makes me laugh, because every time I see it I think of a bad Pron:

Down Low 2020: Lots of Holes to Fill
The double entendre wasn't deliberate. ;)
 
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gmoney44

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Elmore is way too important to the offense for that.
Average blocker
Below average runner
Below average receiver

I don’t see much value in him as an offensive player. I think we would be better off adding a TE or WR to the formation. The heavy package we trot out with him in goal line situations is unproductive to put it kindly.
 

Cusefan69

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I think part of the trickle down of the bad line was Elmore often didn’t have a chance to seal or hit the linebacker as the oline was getting blown up. I have seen Elmore make some effective blocks when he was able to make it to/through the line. That said again if he is willing to put in the time and do what he needs I would put him next to Williams and push Black to DE. In order for the other d-ends not named Kingsley to get significant minutes they would need to have some serious weight gain. Tuazama (sp?) may already be there also but we need more. Put Black at def end and we have one side covered. He will last longer at that position also.
 

corpjet

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I would like to see Elmore committed full time to d tackle. We need all the help here we can get. Black gets turned too easily and really needs to focus on eating space.

I really hope tuazama can pull a slayton and fill out. Dawson as well- he has a good frame and had good offers before the knee injury.
agree, Elmore doesn’t have much value on the offensive side of the ball. Keep him on the d side with his hand in the dirt
 

shu 49

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I think part of the trickle down of the bad line was Elmore often didn’t have a chance to seal or hit the linebacker as the oline was getting blown up. I have seen Elmore make some effective blocks when he was able to make it to/through the line. That said again if he is willing to put in the time and do what he needs I would put him next to Williams and push Black to DE. In order for the other d-ends not named Kingsley to get significant minutes they would need to have some serious weight gain. Tuazama (sp?) may already be there also but we need more. Put Black at def end and we have one side covered. He will last longer at that position also.
Honestly dont think he is a d end. Not nearly quick enough.
 

Cusefan69

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Honestly dont think he is a d end. Not nearly quick enough.
Black? Didn’t he play D-end for us his first 2 years when he was 275/280? To be clear I was suggesting move Elmore to DT next to Williams and slide Black over. Black could even shred down to 275 again for quickness if he needs a step.
 

OttoinGrotto

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If we can land a Juco or grad transfer at DT i wonder if they move Black outside.
Whoa, whoa now.

We didn't spend so much time making the whole "proper dedication to S&C so he can move inside" thing a board meme for you to now propose that a player move outside.

Get the Hell out of here with that improper dedication to S&C business.
 

AAM62

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I have a question to any one who can figure it out. Why is black in a weird ass stance so far off ball 1.5 yards off and throws hands but never try’s to hit a gap. Why is his but down and not up like he is ready to kill someone.
I really hate it. I really really hate it.
 

reedny

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This is what I think will happen:

DE: Jonathan/Linton
DT: Williams/JUCO or Grad Transfer TBD
DT: Black/Harper
DE: Richards/Tuazama

Linton appears to have established a little lead in the battle for PT between the young backup DEs. We desperately need difference makers, good pass rushers at DE. He might be our best.

I can’t believe we are going to go into 2020 without another legit, ready to play immediately, P5 level DT on the roster. Our lack of depth and size at DT was perhaps our biggest problem on defense this year. It killed us against 12 formation offenses. We have to address it and I think we will. The only questions are ,JUCO or grad transfer? And one or two?

Richards is listed as a DE and played there, at least most of the time. We don’t have depth at LB and it will be tempting to leave him there bit Tyrell has experience and athletic ability. Plus, I think his demeanor and mindset are a better fit at DE than LB. But that is just a guess.

The other DE could be anyone. I think Tuazama has a nice blend of size, strength and athletic ability and might be a little ahead of the others right now. But any of them could step up. Caleb being the most likely (he is a little more physically mature and has been in the system longer).

If we don’t get at least one DT/NT transfer by summer, I will really be worried. Personally, I expect at least one will arrive for the spring semester. We have needs at a number of positions but I think our need is most acute at DT. It will be a huge key for 2020.
I read your WF game take and agree with you - one of the reasons for this DL thread. We've been getting boat-raced for lots of reasons - but the 2 most important seem to be: 1) that our D-Linemen are not big or strong enough to hold their position; and 2) they can't keep opposing OLinemen off our LB's. These two problems allow opposing RBs/QB's to get in space and create mayhem in the secondary.

Nothing I've seen so far tells me that this situation is close to being addressed for next season. In fact, we may be worse at both DE and DT - less talent, less size and less experience. Specifically, while one DE - Johnathan/Linton - is believable, the other DE is a giant hole. Tauzama's day will come but he's played in 1 game. The answer can't be Richards, really? At 230? Sure he's a playmaker and he has a heat-seeking mindset. But with his speed and our lack of size and experience at LB I would think he would move up to start at Will. He's the kind of talent we need there.

Either way, it looks like we need not one, but two plug and play DE's and at least one plug-and-play DT. It's not fair to throw young guys in there who haven't played and expect anything different than last year.
 
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shu 49

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Black? Didn’t he play D-end for us his first 2 years when he was 275/280? To be clear I was suggesting move Elmore to DT next to Williams and slide Black over. Black could even shred down to 275 again for quickness if he needs a step.
True
 

shu 49

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I really hate it. I really really hate it.
Drives me nuts. Weird thing is that’s what 350 lb dline do in a two gap role and their strong enough to get off block
 

sutomcat

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I read your WF game take and agree with you - one of the reasons for this DL thread. We've been getting boat-raced for lots of reasons - but the 2 most important seem to be: 1) that our D-Linemen are not big or strong enough to hold their position; and 2) they can't keep opposing OLinemen off our LB's. These two problems allow opposing RBs/QB's to get in space and create mayhem in the secondary.

Nothing I've seen so far tells me that this situation is close to being addressed for next season. In fact, we may be worse at both DE and DT - less talent, less size and less experience. Specifically, at one DE spot, Johnathan/Linton is believable. The other DE spot is a giant hole - Tauzama's day will come but he's played in 1 game. The answer can't be Richards, really? At 230? Sure he's a playmaker and he has a heat-seeking mindset. But with his speed and our lack of size and experience at LB I would think he would move up to start at Will. He's the kind of talent we need there.

Either way, it looks like we need not one, but two plug and play DE's and at least one plug-and-play DT. It's not fair to throw young guys in there who haven't played and expect anything different than last year.
Richards is listed on the roster as a DL. Almost all of his playing time other than special teams has been played as a defensive lineman. I agree this is not an ideal situation but in general, the staff has opted to play the more athletic guy over the bigger guy. That might change with the arrival of a new DC.

The good news is that, at DE anyway, we have a lot of bodies to throw at the position, and a lot of them are tall and athletic. It might end up that the ones who have the most success in the weight room end up with the most success on the field.
 

sufandu

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He is getting a ton of snaps. No question about it. I don’t see him knocking people down. When I watch him, I see a lot of whiffs or barely touch someone plays.

But I haven’t watched film of this team a lot...this team was hard enough to watch playing live. So maybe he is killing it and I keep missing those killer blocks. Dino obviously knows offense and if he has him out there a lot (and he does have him out there a lot), he must be doing something right.

I sense his intangibles are really good. Seems to be very well liked and has a great personality.

Regarding his play at DT...he did get penetration and almost made a few plays. But he appeared to be overmatched a lot. His is really short for the position and I don’t think he is very strong for it either. The big thing he brings to the table is excellent agility for his size. I wish he would work harder on his conditioning and on the weights and turn 20 or 30 of those pounds of fat into muscle. Then he could do damage at DT.
Yeah. with the changes in physiques we've seen with a number of guys, I'm a little disappointed he hasn't leaned up by either getting lighter or maintaining his weight with more muscle.
 

Cusefan69

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My info on the player weight might be off. Kingsley, Morten and Tauzama are in a nice place for DE but the rest are kinda under weight aren't they? Rondi also but I am not sure if he has the same skills as the before mentioned. Of course S&C can help address some but it seems to me that we have a lack of size (options) available. Maybe I am off on that though.
 

reedny

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I was told won't know for sure until Spring, but his tweet sounds like it.
Thanks for the update in this thread, CL. Double duty! ... Also great news for Caleb and the defensive line. He'll have all winter to bulk up for Spring ball.
 

FrancoPizza

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I think part of the trickle down of the bad line was Elmore often didn’t have a chance to seal or hit the linebacker as the oline was getting blown up. I have seen Elmore make some effective blocks when he was able to make it to/through the line. That said again if he is willing to put in the time and do what he needs I would put him next to Williams and push Black to DE. In order for the other d-ends not named Kingsley to get significant minutes they would need to have some serious weight gain. Tuazama (sp?) may already be there also but we need more. Put Black at def end and we have one side covered. He will last longer at that position also.
Elmore was like bowser in the old NES Mario kart. useless unless he was given room to operate.
 

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