Does Dion get "it?"

[jordoo]

I doubt the Cavs would even consider trading Kyrie, but, man, as great an offensive player as he is, he has to start passing every once in a while. He had 1 assist, Dion had 1, and LeBron had the Cavs' other 4. Six total assists? What's up with that? Not the way I saw this playing out. Of course, they're just 4 games into the season, as Quin Snyder said last night, the Cavs can be a different team in two weeks. Sure hope so.
From LeBron after last night's game: "There's no way you're going to win a basketball game like that, just having six assists...We just can't win like that. We have to figure out a way to help each other and not make it so tough."

He's no raging superstar, but losing Dellavedova for a month doesn't help, either.

I tend to think RF2044 is right. Lebron needs to play with a PG who doesn't dominate the ball because he needs to be the major mover and shaker on offense. Unfortunately Irving is not that type of player because he is at his best creating off the dribble. (he has to have the ball to dribble right?)

 

[Fireball Jr.]

This isn't as much about Dion as it is about how the Cavs are constituted. I'm not as worried about the on-court chemistry, as that will get ironed out over time. I just wonder if this group overall is well suited to play with Lebron. Lebron is at his best not just as a scorer, but as the primary facilitator of the offense. That means that the ball needs to run through him at all times. He's not a gunner--he finds teammates. And yes, Lebron played with "point guards" in both Cleveland / Miami, but in actuality he was the facilitator of the offense; those guys were only "point guards" in name.

Problem is, Kyrie Irving predominates the ball. Dion Waiters predominates the ball. Both of these guys need to get comfortable playing off the ball and not trying to do to much, because it bogs down the offense and takes the ball out of Lebron's hands. Ditto Kevin Love. Great player--love his game. But he's gotten used to playing on a team where he was the top dog, and could take unlimited shots. Great range for a big, but him spending 85% of his time on the perimeter might not be best for the Cavs.

And its only been a few games, but I have a feeling that their HC, Blatt, might be in a little over his head. Not that he doesn't understand the X's and O's, because he's been a successful international coach, but the NBA is a different animal. The season is a grind, the players can be a challenge, and he's facing a delicate balance of having a few veterans mixed with a bunch of younger players who are still figuring things out. Some coaches excel at relating to veterans [Doc Rivers, Poppovich, to name a few], while others are a better fit for teaching the game to younger players on inexperienced teams. What does Blatt excel at?

There's only one basketball--and the Cavs right now might not be constructed to maximize Lebron's talents. Sometimes, less talented role players might be a better fit, even though a player like Kyrie Irving is surely more talented.

Good points, Ryan, but I think Blatt's the man for this job. FWIW, a friend of mine works in player personnel for a Euroleague team told me this summer that Blatt has the people skills and basketball mind to be a success in the NBA. He has an impressive staff, too: rising star Tyronn Lue and former NBA head coaches Larry Drew and Jim Boylan. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/s...lead-lebron-james-and-the-cavaliers.html?_r=0

 

[Fireball Jr.]

3 team trade...Knicks to send JR Smith to Cleveland, Waiters to whomever...and Knicks get expiring contract of a shooter.

JR Smith on the Cavs? Please, no. The Knicks clearly are shopping him around, though. http://www.givemesport.com/518908-n...ok&utm_medium=Paid-Social&utm_campaign=518908

 

[Melancer46]

To be fair regarding the assists, didn't Cleveland have like 40 Free Throws last night? That's a lot of possible assists that they didn't get credit for.

Regarding the fact that Kyrie, Dion, and LeBron all dominate the ball when they're at their best, yeah, that's what I don't love about the team. I thought Dion would adapt better than he has, but he still has time.

Ideally, guys like Wiggins (ironically lol), Arron Afflalo, and Brandon Knight would be perfect for this team (and I know Knight dominates the ball with Milwaukee, but he's easily at his best when he's working off the ball...Milwaukee simply doesn't have anyone else that can dribble). Guys that can play defense, and be effective scorers off the ball.

That's also one of the reasons that the idea of trading Waiters to Atlanta for some sort of package that includes Kyle Korver makes sense. Korver has become an adequate defender, and is just incredible playing off the ball. Just spitballing here, but I think something like Dion and Thompson for Korver, Payne, and Carroll could be beneficial to both teams (depending on what Atlanta's plan is).

 

[orangefan13]

Dion was averaging 14.7 ppg as a rookie and 15.9 as a second year player the last two years.
Hes hasn't shot a high percentage, but he will settle in.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm enjoying the meme that Kyrie is the problem, not Dion. (Not to say either of them is or isn't the sole problem, just it's funny)
I'm just going off the box score; I have no idea how Kyrie gets 0 assists. How is that even possible?

The Cavs are going to need some time to gel; the first year in Miami they started 9-8 or whatever it was. The box score says Lebron was great last night, but he's been hit or miss too; probably 2 really good games out of 4. I still think they're gonna be fine, but it might take a month or two. Might cost them the top seed in the east.

That's also one of the reasons that the idea of trading Waiters to Atlanta for some sort of package that includes Kyle Korver makes sense. Korver has become an adequate defender, and is just incredible playing off the ball. Just spitballing here, but I think something like Dion and Thompson for Korver, Payne, and Carroll could be beneficial to both teams (depending on what Atlanta's plan is).

I don't think Cleveland can trade both of those guys, unless Payne is a lot better than I think. They need big guys. Plus there is the rumor out there that Cleveland is going to take care of Thompson cause he and Lebron share an agent. Korver would be great for them though. One of the 2 or 3 best shooters on the planet.

 

[jimsonjunction]

Agree on Korver. That would be a perfect piece.

Disagree with people saying Kyrie and Dion dominate the ball to much. Wade dominated the ball too. Ultimately, it's a matter of chemistry. Once these guys play together long enough, they'll know where there teammates are going to be...passing goes up...team play goes up...etc. Love will slide into the Bosh role and be even better than Bosh. I think they do need a strict catch-and-shoot player (i.e. Korver, Ray Allen).

 

[RF2044]

Agree on Korver. That would be a perfect piece.

Disagree with people saying Kyrie and Dion dominate the ball to much. Wade dominated the ball too. Ultimately, it's a matter of chemistry. Once these guys play together long enough, they'll know where there teammates are going to be...passing goes up...team play goes up...etc. Love will slide into the Bosh role and be even better than Bosh. I think they do need a strict catch-and-shoot player (i.e. Korver, Ray Allen).

Wade DID dominate the ball, but SUBLIMATED when Lebron got there. Because he's a veteran who understood how to play, he'd participated in international competition and had reasonably good chemistry with Lebron / understood how their respective games meshed, and because he knew that taking a secondary role to Lebron was the best way for the team to be great.

 

[Francis03]

Just saw a stat that showed Kyrie has taken 36 shots since his last assist. That's just inexcusable from your PG and we are here talking about if Dion gets it lol.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Agree on Korver. That would be a perfect piece.

Disagree with people saying Kyrie and Dion dominate the ball to much. Wade dominated the ball too. Ultimately, it's a matter of chemistry. Once these guys play together long enough, they'll know where there teammates are going to be...passing goes up...team play goes up...etc. Love will slide into the Bosh role and be even better than Bosh. I think they do need a strict catch-and-shoot player (i.e. Korver, Ray Allen).

Wonder if Allen's still thinking of coming back later in the year. I'd think the Cavs would be in the mix.

 

[kuethstheman]

Cowherd did a segment today with Brouchard. Cowherd spent almost the entire time asking when the Cavs are going to get rid of Dion. Brouchard didn't think that Dion was the problem and that Dion's situation is OK. Did say that Dion is unhappy about playing time, though (of course).

 

[Melancer46]

Just saw a stat that showed Kyrie has taken 36 shots since his last assist. That's just inexcusable from your PG and we are here talking about if Dion gets it lol.

I mean, Dion played for 27 minutes against Portland and attempted 5 passes and turned it over on 3 of them lol.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Dion was averaging 14.7 ppg as a rookie and 15.9 as a second year player the last two years.
Hes hasn't shot a high percentage, but he will settle in.

I don't think it works that way when you have LeBron and Love join the team. More mouths to feed.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Hmm, LeBron apparently had a "healthy, heated" discussion with Kyrie after the Portland game two nights ago. Well. LeBron did say recently that there'd be some growing pains and an occasional argument. No sense in wasting time.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...hange-words-state-cleveland-cavaliers-offense

 

[Francis03]

I mean, Dion played for 27 minutes against Portland and attempted 5 passes and turned it over on 3 of them lol.

He still has more assist than Kyrie during that span though

 

[MikeSU02]

Just saw a stat that showed Kyrie has taken 36 shots since his last assist. That's just inexcusable from your PG and we are here talking about if Dion gets it lol.

Especially one that absolutely blows on defense as well.

Maybe he's just staying in Uncle Drew character and trying to teach the kids about getting buckets.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Especially one that absolutely blows on defense as well.

Maybe he's just staying in Uncle Drew character and trying to teach the kids about getting buckets.

Kyrie should take lessons from Steph Curry. Steph's probably the best scoring PG in the NBA, but he still keeps his teammates involved. You don't see Klay Thompson ever complaining he doesn't get the ball enough.

 

[Francis03]

Kyrie should take lessons from Steph Curry. Steph's probably the best scoring PG in the NBA, but he still keeps his teammates involved. You don't see Klay Thompson ever complaining he doesn't get the ball enough.

GSW have been my favorite team to watch so far early in the season. If everybody can stay healthy (big if) I could see them giving the Spurs a tough challenge come playoff time.

 

[Knicks411]

Kyrie should take lessons from Steph Curry. Steph's probably the best scoring PG in the NBA, but he still keeps his teammates involved. You don't see Klay Thompson ever complaining he doesn't get the ball enough.

This stretch lately is crazy, but i'll defend Kryie a little and point out he has a slightly better career assist % than Curry does.

 

[triplethrea]

The Cavs have more problems than just Dion. I agree with Simmons that Lebron might have possibly lost a step. I may be in the minority but I don't really like Varejeo and the rest of the roster besides Love and Thompson is really weak.

I touched on this last year but when Kyrie was out for 20 or so games at the end of last year, Dion became an efficient 20ppg player as the go-to guy game after game. I felt like he was ready to take the next step. Now all of a sudden Lebron and Love come in and he becomes the 4th option. The guy was ready to expand his game and be a potential #1 guy and all of a sudden he's being humbled AGAIN and told to shut up and learn.

I think Dion is really confused at what he should do or be and it's a matter of time before he speaks out. He's better than a 4th option and he knows it. He also knows that Kyrie may be flashier but he is not that much better or efficient than him but gets a free pass which infuriates him. I'm starting to think that Dion needs to go somewhere else and be a top option. I think he'll be on another team next year and it may be best for him.

Also, he led the team in scoring a few games in the pre-season and people were talking about how Dion might blow up. Then Blatt says that Dion shouldn't be leading the team in shots. Back to square one. People refuse to give the guy the keys everywhere he goes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

GSW have been my favorite team to watch so far early in the season. If everybody can stay healthy (big if) I could see them giving the Spurs a tough challenge come playoff time.

Love Golden State!! I was slightly concerned they let Jackson go, but Kerr seems to know what he's doing ,and they seem to be sharing the ball much better in the early going. They are way ahead of the Clippers at this point in the season. The key is keeping Bogut healthy, which is never a guarantee. I'm a big fan of Draymond Green. Hes turned out to be the steal of the 2012 draft.

 

[Knicks411]

Unless he totally ups his game, on the Cavs, he's a 4th option. I checked his last 20 games last year; he was still at a 53% true shooting; that's still below league average.

 

[RF2044]

The Cavs have more problems than just Dion. I agree with Simmons that Lebron might have possibly lost a step. I may be in the minority but I don't really like Varejeo and the rest of the roster besides Love and Thompson is really weak.

I touched on this last year but when Kyrie was out for 20 or so games at the end of last year, Dion became an efficient 20ppg player as the go-to guy game after game. I felt like he was ready to take the next step. Now all of a sudden Lebron and Love come in and he becomes the 4th option. The guy was ready to expand his game and be a potential #1 guy and all of a sudden he's being humbled AGAIN and told to shut up and learn.

I think Dion is really confused at what he should do or be and it's a matter of time before he speaks out. He's better than a 4th option and he knows it. He also knows that Kyrie may be flashier but he is not that much better or efficient than him but gets a free pass which infuriates him. I'm starting to think that Dion needs to go somewhere else and be a top option. I think he'll be on another team next year and it may be best for him.

I agree with a lot of this. Although I don't know that Dion / Kyrie necessarily need to be moved--what they need to do is start passing the ball and passing up contested shots, and working to fit into the context of a structured offensive concept that centers around Lebron. Cohesive offensive basketball is a thing of beauty to behold. Make the extra pass. Give the ball up when a teammate has a better shot. Because if this is the way that the ENTIRE team plays, then passing up a shot attempt doesn't matter--because the next time, its going to be one of your teammates passing the ball to you for a shot. Unselfish basketball is "contagious" when everyone buys in.

Right now, the Cavs haven't bought in. In fact, they look confused offensively. Way too much one on one, settling fr way too many perimeter shots. They also aren't as efficient as you'd think they would be in transition. They just don't seem cohesive on offense. Lots of guys standing around watching the ball being over-handled. I spent the majority of one game focusing on Dion's movement during a recent cavs game I was forced to watch. Here's what he does in their halfcourt offensive sets: he drifts out to the three point line on the opposite side of the ball, and waits to see if the ball is going to swing around and be passed to him. If its late in the shot clock, then he might try to make something happen off of the bounce. Otherwise, he's relegated to standing around watching Kyrie and Lebron dribble.

In no way am I suggesting that Dion should be getting shots ahead of Lebron. No way. But he's better than a decoy, and he's not being utilized optimally in their half court sets. So when he DOES get the ball, he's often forcing in an attempt to try to make something happen because the time spent between touches can be lengthy.

Right now, the Cavs offense overall is very, very flawed. The locker room dust up they had last night will probably help course correct things, if I had to guess.

 

[Knicks411]

I've only seen 2 Cavs games so far, but the offense is nowhere close to where it should and to where it probably will be. The positive thing for the Cavs is the Heat offense in 2010 was really stagnant at the beginning. They really didn't hit their stride till the next year, but they still got better as the year went along.

Everyone except Lebron is basically being moved down the ladder here. Love was the #1 guy in Minnesota, Kyrie and Dion were 1 and 1a or whatever you want to call it in Cleveland. It's going to take some getting used to. I also think they need to ease off Lebron a little bit anyway, he's right around 40 minutes per night. Put him on the bench for 12 minutes a game, give Dion/Love a chance to work some pick and rolls, etc.

 

[Melancer46]

Love Golden State!! I was slightly concerned they let Jackson go, but Kerr seems to know what he's doing ,and they seem to be sharing the ball much better in the early going. They are way ahead of the Clippers at this point in the season. The key is keeping Bogut healthy, which is never a guarantee. I'm a big fan of Draymond Green. Hes turned out to be the steal of the 2012 draft.

Jackson wasn't a good coach anyways. I always thought Kerr would prove to be an upgrade. Jackson could rally the troops, but he struggled immensely with everything else that goes into coaching.

But yeah, Bogut is really the key. If he stays healthy, they can go all the way. He just never stays healthy. It's really a shame. He was blossoming into one of the best centers in the NBA before that freak arm injury in Milwaukee robbed him of pretty much all of his offensive game.