Duke, Kentucky

[Cowtown]

This statement "we've been as dirty as Cal" shows you know little about our program and nothing about UK. It's totally insulting. Are you even an SU fan? Yes, we're not perfect, no school is. But Cal's made a living off of high-level cheating that makes footnotes and paying kids to ref Y games look like coloring outside the lines in kindergarten. I don't know why you'd come on a Syracuse fan site and pretend we're on their level. I don't need to "show my work" because pretty much everyone who follows college sports knows that getting the top 5 kids annually is not because of Cal's good looks. Whatever. You've outdone yourself this time.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows ..."

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You've backed off your insulting c0mparison, so I won't belabor it. But the mantel you've taken on as board "devil's advocate" here to "correct" others seems a little conceited. You also doubled down on your silly "prove your work" argument. The fact that Cal hasn't been caught yet at UK doesn't mean he's a good guy. He's been caught at both of his previous coaching stops with pay-for-play schemes. He had a FF vacated, etc. That's "work". Although there's only rumors at UK so far of player payments, a number of UK players have tweeted that they don't go to class. We all know it's an academic farce there, even if the money bags haven't been publicly outed yet. Either way, it's your choice to express opinions on here and be Pay-Pal's shill ... as long as you don't drag us into it. I'm not self-righteous enough to tell you to leave the forum because you don't measure up to my expectations. As far as I'm concerned, you can say what you want. But expect to be called out when you compare JB/SU to the cesspool at UK.

As for your claim that we're just as guilty in the minds of college BB fans, that doesn't hold water either. Many knowledgeable analysts from Jay Bilas on down decried the most recent penalties against SU as total overkill. That's obvious via a simple comparison of Fab's footnotes and the Y refereeing fees versus the LV/UM FBI payola investigations and UNC's 18 year history of sham majors (10 of the 15 UNC players on their o5 NC team were AFAM majors).

Firstly, why are You "insulted?" I've never said a word about you. Never called you out as you've done with me. Why is this so personal that you can't have a rationale discussion? As for personal insults, you're the one dishing them out. I'm conceited because i asked legitimate and sincere questions and tried to see the argument from more than just the perspective from within The Orange Bubble? It's ironic that it's only now that you're providing more of an intelligent response — only once 'challenged.' Do I have to take on a "mantel" to want to participate in a better level of discourse? You'd probably prefer more of a pep rally atmosphere here. I'd prefer it to be more like Sons of Sam Horn, where there is a requirement that posters actually contribute substance.

"Devil's Adcocate" is a valuable principle. Unfortunate that you don't recognize that. And you continue to ignore the fact that I've consistenly said I DON'T believe Cal is clean. But you continue to ignore the OP's question, which is what I've been answering. Whatever. That suits your bias, I guess.

Re: Bilas... You're also ignoring that WE attend to any words of defense of our program to a far greater degree than outsiders. So my point stands. The rest of the world does not share your closely-held perspective that we are angels and were over-prosecuted. And, in fact, there are the same types of discussions about us as being tamperers and/or payors with regard to Tyus Battle and Bazely.

So, whatever. You don't like me. Fine. Push he Ignore button. But if you're going to participate in a conversation, it would be cool to be working toward answering the primary question. If you're still insisting Kentucky has nothing to offer aside from payola, then I'd like to know how that works. Are they paying all of them, or just some? If some, how do they prevent the unpaid from knowing about the paid? Do they pay all the same amount? If a kid just wants to go there simply for all the reasons I've listed which would make them attractive, do they force him to take money, mob style, to ensure their silence? And again, how is the Kentucky situation any different from duke's? I really want to know. Is this so,etching maybe they did for a while, but now don't need to do? If this is all done by boosters, how do we know we don't/haven't done the same thing? You say Kentucky players tweeted they don't go to class. Not sure what that proves. I didn't go to half of some of my classes. I had Derrick Coleman in two of my classes that I did attend pretty regularly and I saw him only twice — day one, and the end of the semester. But, no, that's innocent, right? Because it's Us. Oh. Sorry — I've just "insulted" you again.

Nah. It's better to keep it simple. We are awesome. PayPal Cal is scum. LGO!

Edit: I got lazy and only read the wiki on calipari — John Calipari - Wikipedia

His wins were vacated on two occasions because Camby took money from an agent to lure him OUT of UMASS. Not sure how that benefited Cal. The NCAA didn't implicate Cal. With rose, the NCAA's position is that Rose did take his SATs, but they were invalidated by the test company because of a 'mailing error.' The NCAA does not implicate Cal. But I get it - the NCAA has bias against SU and love Calipari. If there's more, I really want to know.

 

[reedny]

Firstly, why are You "insulted?" I've never said a word about you. Never called you out as you've done with me. Why is this so personal that you can't have a rationale discussion? As for personal insults, you're the one dishing them out. I'm conceited because i asked legitimate and sincere questions and tried to see the argument from more than just the perspective from within The Orange Bubble? It's ironic that it's only now that you're providing more of an intelligent response — only once 'challenged.' Do I have to take on a "mantel" to want to participate in a better level of discourse? You'd probably prefer more of a pep rally atmosphere here. I'd prefer it to be more like Sons of Sam Horn, where there is a requirement that posters actually contribute substance.

"Devil's Adcocate" is a valuable principle. Unfortunate that you don't recognize that. And you continue to ignore the fact that I've consistenly said I DON'T believe Cal is clean. But you continue to ignore the OP's question, which is what I've been answering. Whatever. That suits your bias, I guess.

Re: Bilas... You're also ignoring that WE attend to any words of defense of our program to a far greater degree than outsiders. So my point stands. The rest of the world does not share your closely-held perspective that we are angels and were over-prosecuted. And, in fact, there are the same types of discussions about us as being tamperers and/or payors with regard to Tyus Battle and Bazely.

So, whatever. You don't like me. Fine. Push he Ignore button. But if you're going to participate in a conversation, it would be cool to be working toward answering the primary question. If you're still insisting Kentucky has nothing to offer aside from payola, then I'd like to know how that works. Are they paying all of them, or just some? If some, how do they prevent the unpaid from knowing about the paid? Do they pay all the same amount? If a kid just wants to go there simply for all the reasons I've listed which would make them attractive, do they force him to take money, mob style, to ensure their silence? And again, how is the Kentucky situation any different from duke's? I really want to know. Is this so,etching maybe they did for a while, but now don't need to do? If this is all done by boosters, how do we know we don't/haven't done the same thing? You say Kentucky players tweeted they don't go to class. Not sure what that proves. I didn't go to half of some of my classes. I had Derrick Coleman in two of my classes that I did attend pretty regularly and I saw him only twice — day one, and the end of the semester. But, no, that's innocent, right? Because it's Us. Oh. Sorry — I've just "insulted" you again.

Nah. It's better to keep it simple. We are awesome. PayPal Cal is scum. LGO!

Edit: I got lazy and only read the wiki on calipari — John Calipari - Wikipedia

His wins were vacated on two occasions because Camby took money from an agent to lure him OUT of UMASS. Not sure how that benefited Cal. The NCAA didn't implicate Cal. With rose, the NCAA's position is that Rose did take his SATs, but they were invalidated by the test company because of a 'mailing error.' The NCAA does not implicate Cal. But I get it - the NCAA has bias against SU and love Calipari. If there's more, I really want to know.

Silly posts don’t improve through repetition. We won't have to ignore you if you just get off your UK soap box.

Violations by John Calipari’s Teams? Don’t Look at Him
Major violations alleged under Calipari at Memphis
Kentucky's John Calipari is the sleaziest coach in a sleazy game.

 

[albanycuse]

You sound sillier every time you post. His FF appearance at UMass was vacated by the NCAA because his star player was lured to his school through payola, prostitutes, jewelry and other gifts. Sure, "agents" were involved (so cal could conveniently distance himself). He reacted with feigned horror, and pretended (like you) that he was surprised. The same scenario occurred at Memphis, with Pay-Pal slyly distancing himself and feigning ignorance. Now's he's at UK ... his players are all NBA prospects who miraculously select UK to "elevate their draft status", despite the fact that NBA scouts find players world wide and hardly need to see them on ESPN. Not to mention that many of Cal's recruits pick UK at the last minute after being courted by other programs, without any apparent connection to the program. This, of course, smacks of impropriety ... and Cal (and people like you) continue to pretend that nothing is wrong. It's pathetic and your excuses and false comparisons aren't going to legitimize UK no matter how many times you post.

Violations by John Calipari’s Teams? Don’t Look at Him
Major violations alleged under Calipari at Memphis
Kentucky's John Calipari is the sleaziest coach in a sleazy game.

You can’t convince me Coach K isn’t just as bad as well. There’s a lot of dirt out there as well on K. You just dont get the best recruits every year by being good recruiters because there are tons of good recruiters across the country. The playing field definitely isn’t level.

 

[reedny]

You can’t convince me Coach K isn’t just as bad as well. There’s a lot of dirt out there as well on K. You just dont get the best recruits every year by being good recruiters because there are tons of good recruiters across the country. The playing field definitely isn’t level.

I’m not saying Duke is clean (there was the recruit who amazingly showed up with $20k worth of jewelry). But there are differences: 1) K doesn’t have a trail of NCAA recruiting scandals behind him at other programs; 2) Most Duke recruits commit relatively early after an offer. There are a few that pick Duke late in the cycle (like Tucker), but there’s usually a plausible explanation (K lost out on another recruit). By contrast, many UK recruits are mysteriously steered to Cal very late in the cycle without prior involvement with the program, even after pledging privately to other schools (Green); and 3) Duke kids are expected to attend classes and complete coursework. I’m not saying they’re on par with the student body at large, but at least the program keeps the appearance of legitimacy, whereas at UK there isn't the slightest pretense about education. Can you imagine a “footnotes” scandal at UK, lol?