Duke postgame thread

[kcsu]

I have said it before ...you cannot play a zone with the way kids shoot today ...it's like playing a game of HORSE against us with little energy spent on offense ...he said he would play M to M this year after last years dissaster because the fans were on him ...again we are almost dead last in D1 three point shots against us and it's hard to rebound out of a zone ...who do you box out?...he toyed with us for two games but the "zone" is his basketball persona!! ...and don't tell me his kids cannot play M to M..they did until they came to cuse!. he is too stubborn to change ...we win when only when the other team has an off shooting night...otherwise we are easy to beat...look at the data. In 2019 we were ranked 6th in "college basketballs 10 best ranked programs" ...we are now in a free fall...TIME TO GO with dignity Jim!

Thats what i said

 

[OrangeDW]

Remember when we played man to man in the exhibitions and the first game?

LOL. What a joke.

 

[kcsu]

Yeah. That was worst performance by the front court in years. JB did it to himself in the off-season by not finding legit forwards.

Edwards has turned into Chukwu the past few games. His hands are awful.

I miss chewy prancing down the court.

 

[Toga]

Chris Bell is the worst forward to ever be a starter for an entire season, at SU.

Joe Girard is the worst player to be a 4 year starter for SU.

Ridiculous that the program should’ve ever been in the situation where Chris Bell starts as a freshman or Joe Girard starts for 4 years.

Get some dogs in here.

Recruiting tanked when Hop left. JB wasn't personally interested in aggressively recruiting before the college landscape changed and now even less so since he hates the new landscape. That's not good.

 

[kcsu]

I’m not an Xs and Os guy, so I’d love to hear from someone who sees practice. What do they work on with Jesse?

Time and time again last night he’d get a pass in the paint and quickly be doubled. As far as I can recall he never passed out of the double team. Never.

Do they work on that with him? Is it even a concept in our offense? Does no one cut to him? Because someone has to be open.

It was sophomoric it was so bad. No movement off the double. We never adjusted the entire game

 

[OrangeDW]

It was sophomoric it was so bad. No movement off the double. We never adjusted the entire game

Guys double down on the tall guy in pickup games at the Y, but this novel defensive strategy threw us for a loop.

 

[Bayside44]

JB has had a “way” of coaching and scheming that has been wildly successful for decades when he had highly talented players.

He doesn’t have that kind of talent anymore. We don’t have a single do-it-all type of player, and we haven’t for a while. Imagine if we had a Kris Joseph or Todd Burgan on this squad.

And that’s because JB stopped grinding on the recruiting trail years ago, and there’s no one on the staff who can pick up that slack.

I’ll say it over and over: in the 6 years prior to 2017 we had 15 top 100 recruits. Since 2017 we’ve had 3.

And KJo and Burgan were AAAA types (CJ, etc), they don't need to be NBA studs. JB could scheme his 4 stars and beat someone else's 5 stars.

We aren't close to that talent anymore.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You put Cole on this team and it’s still the same system, and same result. I don’t think it’d be appreciably better. Some more threes, maybe a bit better offense, but a bad defense. There were 4 decent-to-good offensive players on the team last year and they had a losing season.

My feeling the last 7-8 years is it’s mostly been the wrong players in the wrong system. They’re not capable of doing the things JAB wants them do and even if they could the system is mostly outdated and easier to game plan against.

They get a few good games here and there, but they’re not enough to change the balance of the season.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Presser posted?

 

[Bayside44]

The offense is just junk. I couldn’t count how many passes were thrown at knees, into or thru a mob of players, or at players who weren’t expecting the ball.

I love Maliq as a frosh PF and his quick instincts but he’s not the guy to get the ball at the FT line to try and dribble. Joe missed Jesse at least three times on rolls to the hoop because he was too slow to get him the ball. Jesse was just missing and dropping balls because he was doubled all game and he was rushing. I have no idea what Bell was doing out there, that push shot three attempt was garbage.

It’s maddening to watch these kids try to play when they look completely unprepared.

The inability to deliver a pass was jarring.

 

[orangepassion]

Yep, I think the criticisms of Jesse can be overwrought. He’s a very good college Center.

But he’s flawed, like literally everyone else on the team. Imagine if he was paired with a very good PF?

Yes, I'd love if Jesse was our biggest problem. He's our best Center since Senior Rak and it's not even close.

 

[tbonezone]

I’m not an Xs and Os guy, so I’d love to hear from someone who sees practice. What do they work on with Jesse?

Time and time again last night he’d get a pass in the paint and quickly be doubled. As far as I can recall he never passed out of the double team. Never.

Do they work on that with him? Is it even a concept in our offense? Does no one cut to him? Because someone has to be open.

etan thomas (12) and fab melo (22). only Cuse centers drafted since 2000.
(RAX and LYDON were both PFs pushed into the middle.) we got 4 guards coaching our post players. imagine telling someone you're a good driver cuz you got the high score at pole position in the arcade when fact is you've never once actually been behind the wheel for real.

 

[Bayside44]

Even us working adults who experienced good to great Syracuse teams aren't taking over arenas up and down the east coast. SU is a regional school with it's alumni concentrated throughout the NE corridor. That's like saying USC alumni are going to take over arenas up and down the West Coast.

We've shown well in Atlanta, Wake, Miami, NCSU, etc. We had more fans at Maryland yesterday for lax than they did.

Team wins, or gives new energy (see lax), they'll show.

 

[Hopkins16]

Chris Bell is the worst forward to ever be a starter for an entire season, at SU.

Joe Girard is the worst player to be a 4 year starter for SU.

Ridiculous that the program should’ve ever been in the situation where Chris Bell starts as a freshman or Joe Girard starts for 4 years.

Get some dogs in here.

This all goes back to us not being able to recruit top players. So, we do the best with what we have. I can no longer blame players who are forced to play above their capabilities and limitations. Other than coming in overweight last year, Girard has given great effort. At times he has shined brightly, but for the ACC, he should have been nothing more than a solid rotation player. Bell should have been a 5 to 10 minutes guy or possibly redshirted this year. Bottom line, Duke and and North Carolina will continue to get 2 to 4 top 50 players each year, Virginia and Miami will be right behind them. To compete, we need a new coach and system that can attract top caliber recruits. We already have the enticing dome and practice facilities.

 

[MSOrange]

I’m not an Xs and Os guy, so I’d love to hear from someone who sees practice. What do they work on with Jesse?

Time and time again last night he’d get a pass in the paint and quickly be doubled. As far as I can recall he never passed out of the double team. Never.

Do they work on that with him? Is it even a concept in our offense? Does no one cut to him? Because someone has to be open.

That was frustrating as hell. Duke's ability to double team with multiple big men was even in Donna and Mike's pregame write up, so it shouldn't have been surprising. Whether you want to blame JB or Griffin as the center coach, the inability for Jesse to have any idea how to handle it was ridiculous.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I feel bad for the 31,000 who went last night.

Especially the students. They’re going to have like zero memorable games. Think they’ll be taking over arenas up and down the east coast when they’re working adults?

One or two bad years is tolerable as long as you rebound. We’ve been on a 9 year slide. This is like global warming. We’re dumping all these toxins into the atmosphere but, hey the east coast is not underwater yet, so it’s not that bad!

 

[OrangeinDC]

He just stands there and shoots, does nothing else. He doesn’t even try to.

Don't think it's fair to say he doesn't try... He's trying to do what coach is asking him to do, but he's clearly not comfortable or able to do all those things yet. Tell you what, any coach that can't find a role for a freshman that can do the things he DOES well now, then there's a problem with the coach not the kid.

He along with JT should be getting around 10-15 minutes per game off the bench.

 

[007]

Duke has plenty of talented, very long, very athletic players at all 5 spots. They play hard on defense and aggressively attack the boards at both ends. This is an inherently poor matchup for the way SU is constructed, practices, and plays.

IMO, part of the problem is SU practices its offensive sets (it's a board myth to suggest that aren't trying to run a structured offense) against players in practice that are essentially not coached or drilled in playing aggressive man to man defense. When you play against teams like Duke and UNC (and apparently Bryant and Colgate) who bring a host of long, athletic players playing pressure defense, the effectiveness of the offensive sets is diminished (they can't really simulate that type of pressure and intensity in practice) and the lack of individual skill sets on offense gets amplified. In the past, JB has always had at least 1 or 2 highly skilled players who could make things happen and/or create for others when the team concepts were taken away.

This is not about a "lack of effort" or game planning. It's a systemic issue that has become increasingly more apparent as recruiting has declined over the past 7+ seasons.

 

[Hopkins16]

Recruiting takes a lot of effort and **s kissing of teenagers, their handlers, parents, high school and AAU coaches. A lot of old school coaches don't like to do it but had to, and it's only getting worse. Going to the recruits games in the middle of the college season, making a second or third home visit to show your interest when other schools are edging you out or getting closer to sealing the deal. I've heard of other coaches doing these things and I doubt JB is. Because he can't put in the effort and don't want to, it's nothing but vanity that is keeping him going. With such a lackadaisical coach, it must be frustrating for the assistants and I'm surprised one or more haven't moved on.

 

[Newhouser]

When JB goes the S&C program needs a change as well. We are weak, and it's not a one year thing.

 

[Dinkyspond]

So this thread has also turned into a JB thread, and less about tonight's game. Maybe that is telling us something. So tonight a large game watch was held in AZ. Now there are a couple of goals for alumni engagement. Some are the obvious ones, and most of all it is to keep alumni engaged, connected and excited about our school. In the end the hope is for funds to be raised. Well this program is now becoming an anti fundraiser. Pretty much the topic for the last 30 minutes of the game, and for 30 minutes after the game was about when will he go. Did anyone want to get together again this year to do another game watch...no. So there is the bottom line. This goes well beyond game and the sport. It is putting a huge dent in the ability to engage our alumni, and it is hard to give them that warm fuzzy feeling about SU right now. Another big topic, the treatment of the student reporter, and how the coach should be a teacher, mentor, etc of our students, not just our athletes. They all thought his behavior towards that student alone should be disqualifying for him. The fact that we are mostly talking about this, shows how deep and how far it has come. I spent a lot of time keeping my ears open and listening to these conversations going on at 6-8 different tables.
My last point, is this can not be fun for this man. He is not having a good time. So is it just too hard to walk away? Probably. Go watch Buddy play. Go overseas and watch Jimmy play. Be a mentor for the SU program going forward, without being the coach. We aren't going to forget about you. We are just ready for the next gear of SU basketball.

I think it was Nixon or Agnew who said "If you've lost ( Walter) Cronkite, you've lost America." I will amend this somewhat, "If you've lost llandz, you've lost Orange Nation."

 

[Fanalways]

Did they use the press at all during the Duke game????

 

[Madbiker]

You think this is bad? What happens if Judah, Jesse and Joe all leave? We have no recruits coming in. JB doesn't like the portal (so don't expect him to be good at using it in desperation). Would we win 7 games next season?

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Yep, I think the criticisms of Jesse can be overwrought. He’s a very good college Center.

But he’s flawed, like literally everyone else on the team. Imagine if he was paired with a very good PF?

The defensive strategy against SU is pretty straightforward. First, you double Jesse. In addition to impeding him, you also clog the middle against drives from Judah as a bonus. You can use Maliq's defender to cheat towards Jesse, as Brown has almost no offensive game beyond 3 feet from the basket. Next, you guard Joe tightly and try to defend Judah outside as best you can. You concede Maliq his 6-8 points on tip-ins and whatnot and bet that the small forwards won't get hot from the outside. That will usually (though not always) be a safe bet. Finally, you generally don't have to worry about our bench contributing much in the way of scoring. On most nights, we need Jesse, Joe, and Judah to put the ball in the net in the appropriate quantities and hopefully one other guy as well. On nights when one of those three has an off night, it will be harder to get sufficient offensive firepower from the remaining cast.

 

[teamco]

All I can say is, it's a good thing Boeheim is a basketball coach and not a surgeon, or airline pilot . . . if you know what I mean.

I always try and find the silver lining in a situation!