Early recruiting

[Shrmdougluvr]

I don't know a lot about the early recruiting that occurred in the 2010s (i.e., how it came to be) but objectively, I cannot believe that it was not immediately recognized as a terrible, terrible concept.

If you watch something like the little league world series, you'll see some kid, who's a really good young player, pitch a baseball 68 mph. That translates to like a 90 mph fastball. I played with 2 or 3 kids, including yours truly, who could throw that hard at age 12. None of us hit 90 on a gun as a teenage.

While that's not a perfect comparison point, it simple illustrates that being talented and athletic at 12-13, doesnt necessarily translate to being talented and athletic at 17-18. And that doesnt even take into account all of the "environmental" reasons why an 8th or 9th grader might not be similarly positioned as a junior or senior.

So you had all these programs picking the best 13-14 years olds when really, their evolution was not projectable. It's not a coincidence that Syracuse and JHU, two schools probably best positioned to load up on the best 13-14 year olds, saw their programs decline from a talent standpoint. At the same time, they probably assumed they were "winning" the early recruiting game, so they were all for it.

Truly weird stuff.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Gait once got a commitment from an 8th grader.

She changed her mind.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

I don’t remember Syracuse doing much early recruiting at all and I do remember Desko catching a lot of flack for it. Joel White wasn’t recruited until his senior year by Syracuse for lacrosse he had multiple Soccer and Basketball offers.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Gait once got a commitment from an 8th grader.

She changed her mind.

Glad she did she wouldn’t start for Kayla today

 

[CuseAlum87]

I don’t remember Syracuse doing much early recruiting at all and I do remember Desko catching a lot of flack for it. Joel White wasn’t recruited until his senior year by Syracuse for lacrosse he had multiple Soccer and Basketball offers.

Desko was slow to the early recruiting party, only a few recruiting cycles. Starsia at UVA was big in early recruiting. Syracuse had some classes back to back where players didn't quite meet their recruitment status. The orange had true freshman playing pivotal rolls because upper classmen weren't ready/able. Think about midfield line of Trimboli(true sophomore), Curry(true freshman), and Dordevic(true freshman). Lots of growing pains, some real ugly losses that season.

 

[Whitey23]

Glad she did she wouldn’t start for Kayla today

You sure?

Caitlyn Wurzburger - Women's Lacrosse - University of North Carolina Athletics

Caitlyn Wurzburger (15) Attacker - CAREER HONORS 2023 Tewaaraton Award Watch List 2023 Honorable Mention All-America (USA...

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Caitlyn Wurzburger

Creativity. Passion. Skill. Dedication. Those are just some of the attributes that have made Caitlyn Wurzburger one of the most electric players in the sport. From the day she committed to college as an eighth grader, and really before, she's been as good as advertised. Even with her senior...

www.usalacrosse.com

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Syracuse is strong when upstate lacrosse is strong particularly section 3. Mid 2000’s upstate dominated the lacrosse landscape by a landslide and even if you missed a recruit or had an injury OCC was a factory for grooming elite D1 talent and I think SU let one of the best ones ever in Shayne Jackson get away. None of this is true anymore West Genny is no longer dominant nor is OCC Rice Donahue and the Thompsons were the end of an era of local dominance. There are still exceptional individuals but upstate lacrosse has been in a long down cycle to the point now where many schools can’t even field a JV team. I hope their is a resurgence but I’m not holding my breath people have fled NY like it was on fire for a long time now

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

You sure?

Caitlyn Wurzburger - Women's Lacrosse - University of North Carolina Athletics

Caitlyn Wurzburger (15) Attacker - CAREER HONORS 2023 Tewaaraton Award Watch List 2023 Honorable Mention All-America (USA...

goheels.com

Caitlyn Wurzburger

Creativity. Passion. Skill. Dedication. Those are just some of the attributes that have made Caitlyn Wurzburger one of the most electric players in the sport. From the day she committed to college as an eighth grader, and really before, she's been as good as advertised. Even with her senior...

www.usalacrosse.com

Positive she couldn’t beat out one of Syracuse’s starting attackers last year she is a feeder and Syracuse had 2 that were much better than her at it last year. She isn’t even the best player from Florida Adamson is a much more complete player then her.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

You sure?

Caitlyn Wurzburger - Women's Lacrosse - University of North Carolina Athletics

Caitlyn Wurzburger (15) Attacker - CAREER HONORS 2023 Tewaaraton Award Watch List 2023 Honorable Mention All-America (USA...

goheels.com

Caitlyn Wurzburger

Creativity. Passion. Skill. Dedication. Those are just some of the attributes that have made Caitlyn Wurzburger one of the most electric players in the sport. From the day she committed to college as an eighth grader, and really before, she's been as good as advertised. Even with her senior...

www.usalacrosse.com

Take a look at Emma Ward and Meaghan Tyrrell’s stats and then add in Emily Harswyschuk for 2 years before that she would have rode the pine 2 tewarrton finalists and Emma Ward should be one this year PS they were all recruited by Gary so he might be better at this recruiting thing then others are giving him credit for

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

I don't know a lot about the early recruiting that occurred in the 2010s (i.e., how it came to be) but objectively, I cannot believe that it was not immediately recognized as a terrible, terrible concept.

If you watch something like the little league world series, you'll see some kid, who's a really good young player, pitch a baseball 68 mph. That translates to like a 90 mph fastball. I played with 2 or 3 kids, including yours truly, who could throw that hard at age 12. None of us hit 90 on a gun as a teenage.

While that's not a perfect comparison point, it simple illustrates that being talented and athletic at 12-13, doesnt necessarily translate to being talented and athletic at 17-18. And that doesnt even take into account all of the "environmental" reasons why an 8th or 9th grader might not be similarly positioned as a junior or senior.

So you had all these programs picking the best 13-14 years olds when really, their evolution was not projectable. It's not a coincidence that Syracuse and JHU, two schools probably best positioned to load up on the best 13-14 year olds, saw their programs decline from a talent standpoint. At the same time, they probably assumed they were "winning" the early recruiting game, so they were all for it.

Truly weird stuff.

There were definitely some early recruiting failures. I reffed games where an 8th grader absolutely dominated at everything, including faceoffs. He committed to Ohio State by 9th grade. He was the best player in the area in high school by far, seemed destined for big things. Then he barely touched the field in college.

But there were also successes. Sisselberger committed to Lehigh early. He was every bit as advertised in college, other than some early academic troubles.

The biggest problem, apart from misjudging how good a 14 year old will be when he’s 18-22, is that 14 year olds are prone to change their mind. Or maybe they want to focus on a different sport or activity. Or their parents made them stay true to their commitment when they really didn’t want to go to a particular school anymore. Sisselberger, for example, had an offer come later from Duke that he wanted to accept. His dad said no, because he’d already given his word to Lehigh.

It was just gross.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Syracuse is strong when upstate lacrosse is strong particularly section 3. Mid 2000’s upstate dominated the lacrosse landscape by a landslide and even if you missed a recruit or had an injury OCC was a factory for grooming elite D1 talent and I think SU let one of the best ones ever in Shayne Jackson get away. None of this is true anymore West Genny is no longer dominant nor is OCC Rice Donahue and the Thompsons were the end of an era of local dominance. There are still exceptional individuals but upstate lacrosse has been in a long down cycle to the point now where many schools can’t even field a JV team. I hope their is a resurgence but I’m not holding my breath people have fled NY like it was on fire for a long time now

This is getting away from the point of the thread, but Section III is never going to be dominant again. Now, a few programs will shine, but the best players will still transfer out to prep schools (two 4* kids off the board from Section III, both prepped at Salisbury). I don't think this means the quality of lacrosse is worse. Everyone else has gotten better. Lacrosse used to be driven by culture, which Section III had a big advantage with. Now $$$$$ drives lacrosse. Fairfield County, Mainline PA, Suburban Baltimore, LI, North Jersey, Metro Boston are all very wealthy areas. On a more micro level, it's why West Genny is behind Baldwinsville and Victor (Section V i know).

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

This is getting away from the point of the thread, but Section III is never going to be dominate again. Now, a few programs will shine, but the best players will still transfer out to prep schools (two 4* kids off the board from Section III, both prepped at Salisbury). I don't think this means the quality of lacrosse is worse. Everyone else has gotten better. Lacrosse used to be driven by culture, which Section III had a big advantage with. Now $$$$$ drives lacrosse now. Fairfield County, Mainline PA, Suburban Baltimore, LI, North Jersey, Metro Boston are all very wealthy areas. On a more micro level, it's why West Genny is behind Baldwinsville and Victor (Section V i know).

It’s happening everywhere. Andrew Whipple, the coach at Pittsford, a wealthy suburb, sent his kid to a prep school. But the kid is now going to be playing at Penn. So how can you argue with it from the family’s standpoint.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

The point of the thread has to be why recruiting has gone down hill. Early recruiting is no longer a factor nor was it anything Syracuse really embraced. So I made my case as to why maybe I missed the point I agree with everything you said while I enjoy the rule changes of college lacrosse it will never be what it was to me when I had first hand friendship with the players and families Probably why I watch a lot more box and women’s lacrosse now

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

The point of the thread has to be why recruiting has gone down hill. Early recruiting is no longer a factor nor was it anything Syracuse really embraced. So I made my case as to why maybe I missed the point I agree with everything you said while I enjoy the rule changes of college lacrosse it will never be what it was to me when I had first hand friendship with the players and families Probably why I watch a lot more box and women’s lacrosse now

Syracuse costs too much. It’s a good school academically, but it’s not on the level of the other ACC lacrosse schools. Weather. Failure breeds failure (as in, one or two bad classes leads to one or two down years and suddenly it becomes difficult to pull in the best kids).

 

[DoctahLexus]

This is getting away from the point of the thread, but Section III is never going to be dominate again. Now, a few programs will shine, but the best players will still transfer out to prep schools (two 4* kids off the board from Section III, both prepped at Salisbury). I don't think this means the quality of lacrosse is worse. Everyone else has gotten better. Lacrosse used to be driven by culture, which Section III had a big advantage with. Now $$$$$ drives lacrosse now. Fairfield County, Mainline PA, Suburban Baltimore, LI, North Jersey, Metro Boston are all very wealthy areas. On a more micro level, it's why West Genny is behind Baldwinsville and Victor (Section V i know).

Further derailing so apologies, but there was a time in not so ancient history when I had to play against Lyle Thomson, Connor and Sean Cannizarro, Joe Nardella, Kevin Rice, and Gale Thorpe in the span of a few weeks. That was after scrimmaging against Jordan Evans and Scott Firman. 5 guys on my teams went and played major minutes for D1 colleges, not obscure ones either, with others having big time offers that they turned down to play other sports. Others were on the bench of D1 teams or did well in DII and III. It is devastating how quickly things have changed. Those guys all just played locally and did the travel team/tournament circuit in the offseason and that was all that was needed. They all played other sports and had other interests.

Now every name from our area seems to be someone who transferred to a prep school. It lowers the recruiting eyeballs on local guys who stay local, and lowers the level of competition that makes it worthwhile for recruiters to come out in the first place. Your parents financial status becomes a massive factor. Hate the way things are changing.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Agree with all of it glad I went to as many games as I did it will never be the same again unfortunately wish they had the shot clock back then there would likely be even more hardware in SU’s trophy case

 

[ForCuseSake]

It’s happening everywhere. Andrew Whipple, the coach at Pittsford, a wealthy suburb, sent his kid to a prep school. But the kid is now going to be playing at Penn. So how can you argue with it from the family’s standpoint.

As you probably know, there are a few more players from Section V doing the same thing (prepping in NE).

Don't know if Whipple's son reclassed but I know a few other Section V kids who have (or will in the next year) transfer to a NEPSAC school and reclass.

Some of these boys were already "redshirted" in Kindergarten!

There will be quite a few DI Sophomores on lax rosters in the next 2-5 years who will be drinking legally by Fall ball.

(It's gross to me)

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Further derailing so apologies, but there was a time in not so ancient history when I had to play against Lyle Thomson, Connor and Sean Cannizarro, Joe Nardella, Kevin Rice, and Gale Thorpe in the span of a few weeks. That was after scrimmaging against Jordan Evans and Scott Firman. 5 guys on my teams went and played major minutes for D1 colleges, not obscure ones either, with others having big time offers that they turned down to play other sports. Others were on the bench of D1 teams or did well in DII and III. It is devastating how quickly things have changed. Those guys all just played locally and did the travel team/tournament circuit in the offseason and that was all that was needed. They all played other sports and had other interests.

Now every name from our area seems to be someone who transferred to a prep school. It lowers the recruiting eyeballs on local guys who stay local, and lowers the level of competition that makes it worthwhile for recruiters to come out in the first place. Your parents financial status becomes a massive factor. Hate the way things are changing.

Saw Kevin Rice last week probably the highest lacrosse IQ player SU has ever had was completely robbed by Danowski and Team USA Kevin was the best US born player on the planet at the time his stats in the pros showed it too

 

[JeremyCuse]

The point of the thread has to be why recruiting has gone down hill. Early recruiting is no longer a factor nor was it anything Syracuse really embraced. So I made my case as to why maybe I missed the point I agree with everything you said while I enjoy the rule changes of college lacrosse it will never be what it was to me when I had first hand friendship with the players and families Probably why I watch a lot more box and women’s lacrosse now

Your incorrect when it comes to SU and early recruiting. SU was one of the blue bloods who initially held off but after a few years Desko embraced it and SU jumped in with both feet and became one of the main players in early recruiting. It ultimately backfired when we lost all those decommits in what I believe was the 2021 class.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Scroll up it’s exactly what I said early recruitment was going on long before that and Desko was criticized because other schools were getting all the big name recruits. SU was very late to the game in early recruiting and very bad at it but paint your picture any color you wish

 

[JeremyCuse]

No you your incorrect early recruitment was going on long before that and Desko was criticized because other schools werw getting all the big name recruits. SU was very late to the game in early recruiting and very bad at it but paint your picture any color you wish Jeremy

No again that's not accurate. SU was not "very late" to the early recruiting game. It didn't really start until the early 2010's after a few seasons of not joining in Desko got onboard because just about all the blue bloods were. I know because I was on this board when it was happening so please don't tell me I am painting a picture of any color I wish when you keep giving information that is wrong.

As an example Lucas Quinn committed to SU in Feb 2014 (when he was freshmen) for the class of 2017.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

Compared to other schools Syracuse was late it’s a fact I also said they were bad at it I don’t care how long you have been on this board I was on Syracuse.com boards in 2002 it means nothing I’ve religiously been going to games since the mid eighties it means nothing meanwhile your on here during games posting from your computer. When’s the last time you actually even went to a game?

 

[DoctahLexus]

Compared to other schools Syracuse was late it’s a fact I also said they were bad at it I don’t care how long you have been on this board I was on Syracuse.com boards in 2002 it means nothing I’ve religiously been going to games since the mid eighties it means nothing meanwhile your on here during games posting from your computer. When’s the last time you actually even went to a game?

Come on man. Arguing is one thing but chirping like this is nonsense. Gotta take it down 10 notches

 

[JeremyCuse]

Compared to other schools Syracuse was late it’s a fact I also said they were bad at it I don’t care how long you have been on this board I was on Syracuse.com boards in 2002 it means nothing I’ve religiously been going to games since the mid eighties it means nothing meanwhile your on here during games posting from your computer. When’s the last time you actually even went to a game?

First off could you maybe try using the reply button like everyone else so we know who your responding to?

Second I said SU held off at first but it was not late, they were early recruiting back in 2012 that is in no way "late".

Third there is this great invention called a smart phone and you can post to this board from your phone while your at the Dome. I was at most of the home games this past season, in fact I think I only missed 3. So please don't question my fandom.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Come on man. Arguing is one thing but chirping like this is nonsense. Gotta take it down 10 notches

Feels like the fball or bball board in here, lol. Good news is we have fall ball in full swing and should have the schedule out in a few months and then we can get back to some on field action and we can get back to doing what we do best prognosticating and worrying about faceoffs. We also have orange79 who ensures we wont turn this into roadhouse.