ED vs. TD - serious question | Syracusefan.com

ED vs. TD - serious question

qdawgg

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It seems no matter how this season was going to go, there would and will constantly be a comparison of ED and TD. It seems like both sides of the "aisle" bring up both QB's in their arguments periodically.

I'm curious, at the end of TD's career how are people expecting to judge whether he was or wasn't as good as ED since that seems pretty important to a lot of people. Some talk about ED's intangibles which some of can't really be quantified. Others talk about TD's completion % and yards despite no power 5 or conference wins.

How are people planning to judge one success over the other?
 

Nick44

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ED delivered despite the coaching change, the injuries and the perceived notion that he didn’t have the arm talent to be a top D1 QB. He had an X factor to his game.

TD will be judged based on how he responds to the mess he currently is in. If he can fix the issues, get back to the success we had last year, he’s still got time and a chance to turn his career around. While he doesn’t have the intangibles or the X factor that ED has in my opinion, he has the superior arm talent and if he can build his game around that skill he has a chance to get back on track.
 

upperdeck

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he might not make people bounce off and miss him like ED but if he can run with some toughness and not take too many big hits his running becomes a plus and if he was healthy to do the RPO just 2-3 times a game that slows down a LB or 2 and helps the run game..

his WR are not helping him all that much with catches on top of some panic wildness at times, but he still makes some really nice throws. if we could let him set up with some confidence i think the deep ball would come back too.
 

SUfanNC

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ED also didn't have the expectations that TD has!

ED 10 win season granted with the help of TD
TD ????

Different skill set for sure. Will be interesting to see how it plays. End of the day we get 2 solid seasons from TD with bowl wins and program in an upward trend I think the comparison goes away
 

upperdeck

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can we just get a QB thru the season healthy for once , whats it been about 6-7 yrs.
 

Townie72

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I actually agree with Nick44 above, but I'll state it differently.
 

Townie72

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I agree with Nick44 above who talks about "X factor", but I'll state it differently.

We will know based on a subjective evaluation of those knowledgeable fans who watched both QBs all through their careers.

You won't be able to do this with numbers. You can prove ANYTHING with numbers (I made a career out of doing this.)

We will look at this and say "This QB on balance was better".
 

Townie72

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If only we had a VD. I’d be able to catch that guy all day long.

Should have been with us in Korea. The lines in the morning at the clinic went out the door and down the block.
 

tbonezone

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i don't think ED was overly intelligent or read defenses very well. his arm was suspect deep. but the kid did have grit . and the strength to scramble and break tackles. i don't think TD is overly intelligent or reads D very well either. and while his arm is not suspect the strength and grit element of dungey is lacking. IMO.
 

shu 49

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It seems no matter how this season was going to go, there would and will constantly be a comparison of ED and TD. It seems like both sides of the "aisle" bring up both QB's in their arguments periodically.

I'm curious, at the end of TD's career how are people expecting to judge whether he was or wasn't as good as ED since that seems pretty important to a lot of people. Some talk about ED's intangibles which some of can't really be quantified. Others talk about TD's completion % and yards despite no power 5 or conference wins.

How are people planning to judge one success over the other?
Well being one of the idiots that wanted Td to start NC st game cause I was convinced Ed was hurt. I truly didn’t understand ed pure will to win. He will do anything and everyone sees that and we played tough. We had to. Your qb can’t be your toughest guy lol. I see though when Ed was not hurt he seems to throw the guys open a bit better than Td. Td has a much better gun. Ed is just a winner or die trying guy and I don’t see that with Td. Also Ed made lynch look ok last year as oc but nowhe just can’t call games well. Please hope Td turns it around.
 

CanadianSU

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i don't think ED was overly intelligent or read defenses very well. his arm was suspect deep. but the kid did have grit . and the strength to scramble and break tackles. i don't think TD is overly intelligent or reads D very well either. and while his arm is not suspect the strength and grit element of dungey is lacking. IMO.
I agree about Dungey’s long ball but if Eric’s is bad idk what I would call Devito’s. Maybe very bad and out of bounds routinely.
 

tbonezone

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true enuf. devito throws it OOB cuz he doesn't have the time or vision to find open wrs. i guess we haven't been able to judge deep ball accuracy given these constraints. but we can hope.
 

FRANKIEFAN

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If Taj Harris doesn’t drop the perfectly thrown touchdown vs ND Devito plays well this year and we are 5-3.
 

hungrychuck

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It seems no matter how this season was going to go, there would and will constantly be a comparison of ED and TD. It seems like both sides of the "aisle" bring up both QB's in their arguments periodically.

I'm curious, at the end of TD's career how are people expecting to judge whether he was or wasn't as good as ED since that seems pretty important to a lot of people. Some talk about ED's intangibles which some of can't really be quantified. Others talk about TD's completion % and yards despite no power 5 or conference wins.

How are people planning to judge one success over the other?

I reject at least this part of the original premise.

I want TD to be better than ED when we look back on their careers.

If he is, we are going to do great things as a program.

I have said sophomore Tommy is nowhere near as good as senior Eric this season because sophomore Tommy is nowhere near as good as senior Eric this season.

But those are two different evaluations.
 

kcsu

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Years from now there is no question that Eric will be remembered as one of the best leaders and players to ever wear Orange. In my opinion he is the reason SU had last years magical season. He willed this Team to greatness. He was the unquestionable leader, the Alpha, the straw that stirred the team.
Tommy has talent. Throws a beautiful ball but he isn't cut out of the same swatch of cloth. Tommy will write his own legacy and i believe it will be a very good one, just not legendary like Erics.
 

Forza Azzurri

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It seems no matter how this season was going to go, there would and will constantly be a comparison of ED and TD. It seems like both sides of the "aisle" bring up both QB's in their arguments periodically.

I'm curious, at the end of TD's career how are people expecting to judge whether he was or wasn't as good as ED since that seems pretty important to a lot of people. Some talk about ED's intangibles which some of can't really be quantified. Others talk about TD's completion % and yards despite no power 5 or conference wins.

How are people planning to judge one success over the other?

The TD I saw last year is the best arm I've ever seen on the hill when combining strength, accuracy, touch and the ability to make every throw.

Put him and ED behind Clemson's Oline and it isn't close. TD wins like Secretariat in 73.

Unfortunately, TD is not playing behind Clemson's Oline. He is playing behind, arguably, this season's worst D1 Oline. Put both TD and ED behind that Oline, it isn't close. ED wins like Secretariat in 73.

Judging TD vs ED over the next two years will depend on the quality of the O line.

I suspect TD will not end up a favorable comparison to ED.

Then, he should graduate transfer to LSU or some other school that has a real offensive line and needs a QB and will win the Heisman.
 

sufandu

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I can't exactly say how I'll judge one against the other. As has been stated, numbers won't tell the whole story. McNabb was better than a bunch of qbs with better numbers that were his contemporaries, especially his senior year. How do I know? I watched him. That's how I'll judge our any of our players.
 
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RF2044

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Okay, so I get how loaded of a question this is.

ED had plenty of issues during his tenure -- including injury, questionable arm strength, and bouts of inaccuracy. But he also proved his mettle on the field. His junior year, which didn't go as well as expected but could have, he was unstoppable against FSU... with a broken foot. He kept us in the game against top 10 ranked [at the time] Miami. He kept opposing DC's up at night, even despite the throwing inconsistency.

At the end of the day, he also has his career completed, and now in historical retrospect. I think that some will gloss over the problems / inconsistency he had his senior year. But then he stepped up against NC State, he led us to 10 wins and a bowl win, etc. He deserves the accolades he's earned, through the lens of how things played out historically, because his accomplishments happened on the field. We as fans experienced the resurgence -- Eric wasn't individually responsible for all of the on-field success [Tommy CERTAINLY contributed to last season's outcomes, as well], but he deserves the accolades of the job accomplished.

Tommy DeVito is at the beginning of his career. He had ups and downs his freshman year, but won games against FSU and UNC, contributing to that 10-3 campaign. He also struggled intermittently. I think that it is valid to question his feel for the game, given what we've seen transpire on the field. I also think that there have been times when he's played better than the team has "perfromed," but gotten a lion share of blame for the losses.

I think that some of the criticism Tommy has gotten this year is warranted. He hasn't shown the playmaking instincts we'd hoped for. But he's also working behind an OL that has struggled IMMENSELY to both pass protect, and to open holes in the running game. Not all on him, but some of it is. BUT it isn't difficult to envision that he'd perform better with a solid running game, and a line that doesn't have him running for his life most of the time.

I also think back to Ryan Nassib's career -- not that TD's capabilities are exactly the same as Nassib's, but he was maligned by a portion of the fanbase throughout his career, then was stellar during a senior campaign where he had an OL that gave him time to throw.

So, in the main, both aspects are true for DeVito -- he's made some dumb plays, he's been squirrely behind poor pass pro, but he also has been intermittently good -- especially in terms of YPP most games, and in terms of efficiency some games. I also think that some fans point to stats as "evidence" of him performing well, when the results on the field have been subpar. Wishful thinking / rationalization? Probably to some extent. Concerns about his playmaking capabilities are valid, based upon on-field performance.

His story is also still being written. This year sucks, and barring us winning 3 of the last 4, we aren't going bowling. But maybe being thrown into the fire will be beneficial, and maybe behind a stronger OL next year [with OTs like Vetterello and Bergeron, with experience under their belts] he'll have a better running game and more time to throw.

Summary: it is too early to compare ED to TD. If TD rights the ship this year, if his performance is better the next two years, etc. then these growing pains might seem "worth it." Time will tell, but I think that in two years, TD's accomplishments might look a lot different in historical retrospect... the same way that ED's do.
 
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HRE Otto IV

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The TD I saw last year is the best arm I've ever seen on the hill when combining strength, accuracy, touch and the ability to make every throw.

Put him and ED behind Clemson's Oline and it isn't close. TD wins like Secretariat in 73.

Unfortunately, TD is not playing behind Clemson's Oline. He is playing behind, arguably, this season's worst D1 Oline. Put both TD and ED behind that Oline, it isn't close. ED wins like Secretariat in 73.

Judging TD vs ED over the next two years will depend on the quality of the O line.

I suspect TD will not end up a favorable comparison to ED.

Then, he should graduate transfer to LSU or some other school that has a real offensive line and needs a QB and will win the Heisman.

I agree about he arm talent but totally disagree about what he could do behind Clemson’s OL. He has shown horrendous instincts. That isn’t the OLs fault. People forget how bad that INT was last year vs UNC. They forget the WMU and ND games.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Okay, so I get how loaded of a question this is.

ED had plenty of issues during his tenure -- including injury, questionable arm strength, and bouts of inaccuracy. But he also proved his mettle on the field. His junior year, which didn't go as well as expected but could have, he was unstoppable against FSU... with a broken foot. He kept us in the game against top 10 ranked [at the time] Miami. He kept opposing DC's up at night, even despite the throwing inconsistency.

At the end of the day, he also has his career completed, and now in historical retrospect. I think that some will gloss over the problems / inconsistency he had his senior year. But then he stepped up against NC State, he led us to 10 wins and a bowl win, etc. He deserves the accolades he's earned, through the lens of how things played out historically, because his accomplishments happened on the field. We as fans experienced the resurgence -- Eric wasn't individually responsible for all of the on-field success [Tommy CERTAINLY contributed to last season's outcomes, as well], but he deserves the accolades of the job accomplished.

Tommy DeVito is at the beginning of his career. He had ups and downs his freshman year, but won games against FSU and UNC, contributing to that 10-3 campaign. He also struggled intermittently. I think that it is valid to question his feel for the game, given what we've seen transpire on the field. I also think that there have been times when he's played better than the team has "perfromed," but gotten a lion share of blame for the losses.

I think that some of the criticism Tommy has gotten this year is warranted. He hasn't shown the playmaking instincts we'd hoped for. But he's also working behind an OL that has struggled IMMENSELY to both pass protect, and to open holes in the running game. Not all on him, but some of it is. BUT it isn't difficult to envision that he'd perform better with a solid running game, and a line that doesn't have him running for his life most of the time.

I also think back to Ryan Nassib's career -- not that TD's capabilities are exactly the same as Nassib's, but he was maligned by a portion of the fanbase throughout his career, then was stellar during a senior campaign where he had an OL that gave him time to throw.

So, in the main, both aspects are true for DeVito -- he's made some dumb plays, he's been squirrely behind poor pass pro, but he also has been intermittently good -- especially in terms of YPP most games, and in terms of efficiency some games. I also think that some fans point to stats as "evidence" of him performing well, when the results on the field have been subpar. Wishful thinking / rationalization? Probably to some extent.

His story is also still being written. This year sucks, and barring us winning 3 of the last 4, we aren't going bowling. But maybe being thrown into the fire will be beneficial, and maybe behind a stronger OL next year [with OTs like Vetterello and Bergeron, with experience under their belts] he'll have a better running game and more time to throw.

Summary: it is too early to compare ED to TD. If TD rights the ship this year, if his performance is better the next two years, etc. then these growing pains might seem "worth it." Time will tell, but I think that in two years, TD's accomplishments might look a lot different in historical retrospect... the same way that ED's do.

I think Soph Nassib is better than Soph DeVito. People were under valuing Nassib in 2010 and are overvaluing Tommy. Nassib had some huge moments that year. And he too had to deal with a poor OL (Mackey turned into a good C but he was awful that year, as was Chibane). Tommy hasn’t had a sliver of what we saw from Nassib.
 

SUFan44

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The TD I saw last year is the best arm I've ever seen on the hill when combining strength, accuracy, touch and the ability to make every throw.

Put him and ED behind Clemson's Oline and it isn't close. TD wins like Secretariat in 73.

Unfortunately, TD is not playing behind Clemson's Oline. He is playing behind, arguably, this season's worst D1 Oline. Put both TD and ED behind that Oline, it isn't close. ED wins like Secretariat in 73.

Judging TD vs ED over the next two years will depend on the quality of the O line.

I suspect TD will not end up a favorable comparison to ED.

Then, he should graduate transfer to LSU or some other school that has a real offensive line and needs a QB and will win the Heisman.

A lot of conjecture and assumption in the post. I have a much different view of all this. I don't think TD wins like "Secretariat in 73" if he has Clemson's OL. He has his own issues outside the OL. Let's not kid ourselves.
 

Cuse69

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I reject at least this part of the original premise.

I want TD to be better than ED when we look back on their careers.

If he is, we are going to do great things as a program.

I have said sophomore Tommy is nowhere near as good as senior Eric this season because sophomore Tommy is nowhere near as good as senior Eric this season.

But those are two different evaluations.
Tommy is technically a Junior, I get he redshirted a year but it's his third year in the program, eric beat clemson his third year here and had he not gotten hurt who knows maybe we make a bowl game. Eric had to learn on the fly which probably helped him but devote should've really polished up the last two years and by now had enough experience. Kind of inexcusable how bad he has been all season.
 

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