End of the game

[PhatOrange]

You're wrong. Goodwin did shake his hand.

my bad you are correct. the video was deceiving.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just watched the last 5 minutes again. As the buzzer sounded and the little end of game Shenanigans were happening there was some obvious confusion by the Refs who actually looked like they were considering a possible video review. JB could have gathered with his players who some seemed like they weren't sure the game was over. Instead Jim headed towards the other bench and did the congratulatory congo line. Brilliant move. If you have time check it out.

Great observation. I caught that, too.

 

[upperdeck]

for all the angst of the ball rolling can we actually point to any game where it ended up costing us?

 

[dollarbill44]

Yeah - inbounding under our basket is a huge no no. Glad it didn't bite us.

My guess is we allow the ball rolling to occur to make sure they can't beat us down the floor to get a shot off before we're full set in the zone. It's not like man, we need all the components locked in for it to work as a system. Not saying it's right or wrong, but I can understand it. You are giving them back time to ensure a better zone.

They're not trying to beat you down the court. Besides, we're talking about one defender stepping forward, not 2 or 3. You can have the other 4 set. What you then have is the inbounded and ball handler and JGIII in the back court. JGIII can run back into position as soon as it's picked up. There's really very little risk of this being exploited. Plus, we're not talking about a final shot for the tie or win situation here, we're talking a multiple possession game with 30 seconds left. We also had a foul to give so there wasn't even the threat of putting them on the line.

 

[kuethstheman]

They're not trying to beat you down the court. Besides, we're talking about one defender stepping forward, not 2 or 3. You can have the other 4 set. What you then have is the inbounded and ball handler and JGIII in the back court. JGIII can run back into position as soon as it's picked up. There's really very little risk of this being exploited. Plus, we're not talking about a final shot for the tie or win situation here, we're talking a multiple possession game with 30 seconds left. We also had a foul to give so there wasn't even the threat of putting them on the line.

I guess JB disagrees. He should probably try to simulate it in practice to see if it can be exploited. Or maybe he has.

 

[dollarbill44]

for all the angst of the ball rolling can we actually point to any game where it ended up costing us?

That's kind of like arguing against wearing a seat belt. If you never get in an accident, you don't need one, but all it takes is one time to make you regret not putting out that little effort of prevention.
It would have hurt us last night if we didn't hit all our FTs down the stretch.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Did anyone notice the jackwad Goodwin wouldn't shake JABs hand at the end in the handshake line?

I did notice that but couldn’t see which white blondish haired ND player it was. True class - what a jerk. JB noticed it too but was classy enough to ignore the weirdo.

Just saw the picture above if not Goodwin - which kid was it? It definitely happened but I couldn’t tell which player it was.

 

[upperdeck]

That's kind of like arguing against wearing a seat belt. If you never get in an accident, you don't need one, but all it takes is one time to make you regret not putting out that little effort of prevention.
It would have hurt us last night if we didn't hit all our FTs down the stretch.

Not the same really.. if you have an accident you cant point to whether it helped or not.

if you dont guard the roller ball, you could also say that its avoided the accident of losing the game because we were out of position by chasing a rolling ball

its like playing prevent in fball.. sometimes it fails but it works a lot. but we have been not doing it for a long time and we only seem to really care on the last possession. maybe in doing so we commit a foul and thus cant commit the foul under 10 to slow ND down.

 

[malpearl31]

I did notice that but couldn’t see which white blondish haired ND player it was. True class - what a jerk. JB noticed it too but was classy enough to ignore the weirdo.

Just saw the picture above if not Goodwin - which kid was it? It definitely happened but I couldn’t tell which player it was.

Here's what happened (and in the moment, I'll concede that it looked strange to me, too):

JB shook Goodwin's hand, but as that was happening the Notre Dame line of players/coaches ahead of him stopped. So when JB raised his hand to shake with the kid behind Goodwin, there was a split-second when JB's hand was left hanging - and it looked like Goodwin was snubbing him (even though he literally just shook his hand as the previous picture showed). The kid behind Goodwin also shook JB's hand. There's nothing to this, really.

(And I hope everybody appreciates the fact that I included the Georgetown final score in the screengrab below.)

 

[cliftonparksufan]

for all the angst of the ball rolling can we actually point to any game where it ended up costing us?

Obviously JAB is not the only coach not to chase it and it is almost as similar to JAB keeping the guys off the lines during free throws. I've said this before but JAB was one of the first to embrace the analytics of the game. He is a true student and must stay up to analyze the percentages. Same with keeping the guys in the 2-3. He knows what should work and some call him stubborn or a bad coach but it works.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Here's what happened (and in the moment, I'll concede that it looked strange to me, too):

JB shook Goodwin's hand, but as that was happening the Notre Dame line of players/coaches ahead of him stopped. So when JB raised his hand to shake with the kid behind Goodwin, there was a split-second when JB's hand was left hanging - and it looked like Goodwin was snubbing him (even though he literally just shook his hand as the previous picture showed). The kid behind Goodwin also shook JB's hand. There's nothing to this, really.

(And I hope everybody appreciates the fact that I included the Georgetown final score in the screengrab below.)


View attachment 175732

Thank you! Glad that it was nothing - just looked funky and it happened so fast I couldn’t tell the details.

 

[realorange]

Regarding rolling the ball up the floor, someone needs to ask JB Thursday night why he lets that happen.

 

[Townie72]

Regarding rolling the ball up the floor, someone needs to ask JB Thursday night why he lets that happen.

What would you recommend he do about that?

Seems to me it's pretty obvious that he has decided it's more important to have the defense set up, than it is to save the 3 or 4 seconds this costs.

It apparently makes some fans nervous. Didn't we just have a thread about JBs incredible success in the last couple of minutes of tight games?

 

[dollarbill44]

Obviously JAB is not the only coach not to chase it and it is almost as similar to JAB keeping the guys off the lines during free throws. I've said this before but JAB was one of the first to embrace the analytics of the game. He is a true student and must stay up to analyze the percentages. Same with keeping the guys in the 2-3. He knows what should work and some call him stubborn or a bad coach but it works.

The fact that I disagree does not mean that I think JB is a bad coach.
Obviously, JB has his system just as their are plenty of coaches who play a token full court press most of the game to shorten the amount of time teams have to run their offense in the half-court. I'm sure those coaches use "analytics" too. Clearly, there are different lines of thought here. I subscribe to the theory that when you're winning by 6-8 points in the final minute, the opponent wants to maximize the number of possessions they have as it increases their chances of winning. Likewsie, the team with the lead wants to reduce the number of possessions for each team. Fewer possessions, on average, means fewer points scored. If they don't have to use any clock to bring the ball into the frontcourt, they save about 4 seconds per possession, which is about the length of each of their last 4 possessions.

 

[upperdeck]

you can dribble the half court in 1-2 secs if you attack then teams get an advantage and or you foul. you would have to run some statistics to show if there actually time lost because when teams have to attack a D thats ready they also waste time getting the first pass to a good spot or take a deep 3 which is the same thing they may do if you attack. now thats different than if we press which some teams do, but we dont.

 

[blust2i3d4]

Kind of like was Girard fouled on the three point shot in Syracuse at the end of the game a couple of weeks ago? What goes around, comes around...

When clock turned zero, Girard passed or gave the ball to Mooney. Taunting Notre Dame and did not get caught. That is why Mooney followed him in hope referees gave Girard a technical foul. Girard clearly has not forgotten the non-call in the end of their first meeting. And wait for a while for this sweet revenge.

If Girard had got caught and Notre Dame made the one-and-one, the game might have gone overtime.

 

[IthacaMatt]

you can dribble the half court in 1-2 secs if you attack then teams get an advantage and or you foul. you would have to run some statistics to show if there actually time lost because when teams have to attack a D thats ready they also waste time getting the first pass to a good spot or take a deep 3 which is the same thing they may do if you attack. now thats different than if we press which some teams do, but we dont.

Well, it usually takes 5-6 seconds, not 1-2. So the offense is maybe adding 5 seconds to the shot clock. That is a benefit for an offense. I like to have the PG hedge and threaten to try for the steal to make the offensive player pick it up, then get back into defensive position. Girard did that a few times late in the game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It felt like we were so scared of fouling so we stopped playing defense the last 90 seconds. I think the fouling part plays into JB’s strategy. We did the same thing at Virginia Tech.

 

[realorange]

What would you recommend he do about that?

Seems to me it's pretty obvious that he has decided it's more important to have the defense set up, than it is to save the 3 or 4 seconds this costs.

It apparently makes some fans nervous. Didn't we just have a thread about JBs incredible success in the last couple of minutes of tight games?

That may be the reason, but I'd like to hear what he has to say. I think it may be more nuanced than just setting up the defense. And, as some have speculated, might it be better to challenge when the clock needs to move a little faster?

 

[kcsu]

They can rifle a pass to someone in the vacated spot and either shoot wide open or pick the zone apart. They'd probably have to practice it for it to be that simple but I'm assuming that's what JB's afraid of.

JB is doing the right thing with this team. Its better to give them 4-5 extra seconds than to be caught out of position.

 

[JoeySimz]

I think that’s part of the overall strategy that won the game. Both teams are scoring teams, not great defensive teams. JB new that if we could compete on the boards that we needed to push the ball at every opportunity. We beat them in transition several times. On the other end, the game plan was to get back and make them work for shots. Furthermore, JB has said several times this year “we’re not a good pressing team”.

This doesn’t fully answer the question about the roll up which as bees suggested may be more nuanced. But it does show trust in the set defense, rebounding, and foul shooting.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think that’s part of the overall strategy that won the game. Both teams are scoring teams, not great defensive teams. JB new that if we could compete on the boards that we needed to push the ball at every opportunity. We beat them in transition several times. On the other end, the game plan was to get back and make them work for shots. Furthermore, JB has said several times this year “we’re not a good pressing team”.

This doesn’t fully answer the question about the roll up which as bees suggested may be more nuanced. But it does show trust in the set defense, rebounding, and foul shooting.

Good points. Also I don’t think it’s any secret that speed and particularly, guard speed, isn’t an SU strong point. I imagine JB was more than aware that ND had an advantage speedwise. It may have worked to our advantage having ND guards slow down taking their time rolling the ball down the court to initiate their offense and letting us set up vs our defense being unsettled and on our heels with their offense attacking.

 

[sutomcat]

When clock turned zero, Girard passed or gave the ball to Mooney. Taunting Notre Dame and did not get caught. That is why Mooney followed him in hope referees gave Girard a technical foul. Girard clearly has not forgotten the non-call in the end of their first meeting. And wait for a while for this sweet revenge.

If Girard had got caught and Notre Dame made the one-and-one, the game might have gone overtime.

Your interpretation of what happened is so completely wrong it makes me concerned for your mental health. Have you shared an elevator recently with Tony Robbins?

In that last second of the game, Mooney came from behind on Girard and slapped the ball out of his hands, bizarrely celebrated his ‘steal’, that ran away down the end line, throwing an epic fit like the child that he is.

Gibbs talked trash to Joe all game long. Look at the picture of him putting his vomit breath face in Joe’s face earlier in the game (it is in this thread), or of him yapping at Joe as Girard was sinking the free throws to ice the game with 10 seconds left. When the game ended, and Gibbs was crying at the ref for a call, Joe gave him a little payback.

This Notre Dame team isn’t very good at basketball but they are top ten in whining, trash talking and throwing fits.

 

[orangefog]

Your interpretation of what happened is so completely wrong it makes me concerned for your mental health. Have you shared an elevator recently with Tony Robbins?

In that last second of the game, Mooney came from behind on Girard and slapped the ball out of his hands, bizarrely celebrated his ‘steal’, that ran away down the end line, throwing an epic fit like the child that he is.

Gibbs talked trash to Joe all game long. Look at the picture of him putting his vomit breath face in Joe’s face earlier in the game (it is in this thread), or of him yapping at Joe as Girard was sinking the free throws to ice the game with 10 seconds left. When the game ended, and Gibbs was crying at the ref for a call, Joe gave him a little payback.

This Notre Dame team isn’t very good at basketball but they are top ten in whining, trash talking and throwing fits.

I don’t think anyone can say it wasn’t a punk move, but Joe took a lot of abuse from them throughout both games with ND. He gave back a spoonful compared to the buckets they dished out. I thought it was hilarious and I love that he sank those free throws under those conditions. You could see it in the videos of him playing street ball in NYC, not sure if it was Rucker. He doesn’t back down on the court. Was it a little weak that he jogged away? Maybe. But I think he made his point and got out.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don’t think anyone can say it wasn’t a punk move, but Joe took a lot of abuse from them throughout both games with ND. He gave back a spoonful compared to the buckets they dished out. I thought it was hilarious and I love that he sank those free throws under those conditions. You could see it in the videos of him playing street ball in NYC, not sure if it was Rucker. He doesn’t back down on the court. Was it a little weak that he jogged away? Maybe. But I think he made his point and got out.

Him jogging away was the smartest thing he did that night.