End of the game

[Capt. Tuttle]

This^. Girard finally did on the inbounds after his FTs. We allowed them to save at least 10-15 seconds of game clock letting them roll it past half court. It's better to leave a spot somewhat open up top and make them eat clock. It also forces the ball handler to split his focus between the token pressure and finding an open man. When you're up 8 with 30 seconds left the clock is more important.
And on the inbounds from the corner Marek is better off lobbing it far into the offensive half court and creating a scramble than turning it over the way he did. Our inboundung leaves a LOT to be desired. It's always an adventure.

Dead ball after FTs

 

[Townie72]

JB is doing the right thing with this team. Its better to give them 4-5 extra seconds than to be caught out of position.

An SU player lunging at the ball as it rolls up court seems a particularly bad idea. His momentum towards the other basket might easily result in a 5 on 4 situation at exactly the wrong time.

 

[dollarbill44]

An SU player lunging at the ball as it rolls up court seems a particularly bad idea. His momentum towards the other basket might easily result in a 5 on 4 situation at exactly the wrong time.

Why does he have to be lunging?

 

[Halfmooncuse]

With a foul to give and Nd inbounding with about 8 seconds to go why was Nd player fouled In The backcourt? Why not when they took more time fouled at least half court.
also no need to lunge at a ball rolling... just check the inbound dribbler

 

[Townie72]

Why does he have to be lunging?

Watch the game footage. The SU defense is set up. The ND players are rolling the ball up court. The temptation is to come out across the mid court line and go for the ball on the floor.

Of course, if what you are recommending is pressuring the ball from the inbounds, that’s different. And different from JBs strategy of setting the defense up and not worrying about the handful of seconds.

The first problem with this is the potential for fouling which stops the clock you are hoping to run out. This kind of pressing is what you do when you want to speed the game up, not slow it down.

The best idea is to make them expend time by passing the ball around the zone looking to solve it. To best do that the zone needs to be set up and stable. SU is one of the best in CBB when measured by how long it takes for the opponent to get a good shot.

The “risk vs. potential reward” just isn’t there.

 

[dollarbill44]

Watch the game footage. The SU defense is set up. The ND players are rolling the ball up court. The temptation is to come out across the mid court line and go for the ball on the floor.

Of course, if what you are recommending is pressuring the ball from the inbounds, that’s different. And different from JBs strategy of setting the defense up and not worrying about the handful of seconds.

The first problem with this is the potential for fouling which stops the clock you are hoping to run out. This kind of pressing is what you do when you want to speed the game up, not slow it down.

The best idea is to make them expend time by passing the ball around the zone looking to solve it. To best do that the zone needs to be set up and stable. SU is one of the best in CBB when measured by how long it takes for the opponent to get a good shot.

The “risk vs. potential reward” just isn’t there.

You're overthinking this. After a made basket, JGIII sets up somewhere around top of the key in the backcourt. When they roll the ball in, all he has to do is move towards where the ball is rolling. As soon as they opposing player picks it up, he falls back into his position. That's it. It's just to force them to use clock. He's not defending in the backcourt, just making them pick it up. And there's a good chance he's back on D at the same time the guy who inbounded the ball gets into the halfcourt. I think some people forget that the inbounded also has to run upcourt. He doesn't teleport into position. Also keep in mind, i'm only espousing this strategy in situations like the other night when we have a sizable lead with under a minute.

 

[Townie72]

You're overthinking this. After a made basket, JGIII sets up somewhere around top of the key in the backcourt. When they roll the ball in, all he has to do is move towards where the ball is rolling. As soon as they opposing player picks it up, he falls back into his position. That's it. It's just to force them to use clock. He's not defending in the backcourt, just making them pick it up. And there's a good chance he's back on D at the same time the guy who inbounded the ball gets into the halfcourt. I think some people forget that the inbounded also has to run upcourt. He doesn't teleport into position. Also keep in mind, i'm only espousing this strategy in situations like the other night when we have a sizable lead with under a minute.

Obviously, JB feels setting up the zone is more important than the second or two this would save.

I get this is frustrating to fans to watch that clock not start as the ball rolls up court. Example #1006 why they are doing what they are doing and JB is doing what he is doing.

 

[longtimefan]

You're overthinking this. After a made basket, JGIII sets up somewhere around top of the key in the backcourt. When they roll the ball in, all he has to do is move towards where the ball is rolling. As soon as they opposing player picks it up, he falls back into his position. That's it. It's just to force them to use clock. He's not defending in the backcourt, just making them pick it up. And there's a good chance he's back on D at the same time the guy who inbounded the ball gets into the halfcourt. I think some people forget that the inbounded also has to run upcourt. He doesn't teleport into position. Also keep in mind, i'm only espousing this strategy in situations like the other night when we have a sizable lead with under a minute.

Is Girard getting back on defense as fast as the ball gets to the frontcourt? The ND guard picks up the ball and passes 50 feet ahead to a shooter standing in the gap left by Girard's absence.

 

[longtimefan]

Well, it usually takes 5-6 seconds, not 1-2. So the offense is maybe adding 5 seconds to the shot clock. That is a benefit for an offense. I like to have the PG hedge and threaten to try for the steal to make the offensive player pick it up, then get back into defensive position. Girard did that a few times late in the game.

No. Forcing the ball up the court in that situation takes way less than 5 seconds. Watch and count the next time you see an end-game situation like this.

 

[dollarbill44]

Is Girard getting back on defense as fast as the ball gets to the frontcourt? The ND guard picks up the ball and passes 50 feet ahead to a shooter standing in the gap left by Girard's absence.

What happens when Joe vacates his spot in the normal flow of the zone? The other players move to cover. Buddy moves over, the wings move up, etc. I guess i'm missing the part where joe is the only player on the court.

 

[orange79]

Him jogging away was the smartest thing he did that night.

I was told he RAN away like a WHINY B^%$*.

 

[kuethstheman]

What happens when Joe vacates his spot in the normal flow of the zone? The other players move to cover. Buddy moves over, the wings move up, etc. I guess i'm missing the part where joe is the only player on the court.

If that worked well, then we should always play a box-and-one. Put the guy you don't need in the zone on their best player or keep him inside for rebounding.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Is Girard getting back on defense as fast as the ball gets to the frontcourt? The ND guard picks up the ball and passes 50 feet ahead to a shooter standing in the gap left by Girard's absence.

Where's Buddy?

Your scenario is simply not how it works. A 50 foot pass should easily be picked off by the other guard or one of our wings, who can leak up to help cover Joe momentarily

 

[longtimefan]

What happens when Joe vacates his spot in the normal flow of the zone? The other players move to cover. Buddy moves over, the wings move up, etc. I guess i'm missing the part where joe is the only player on the court.

The point is, you're risking opening a gap in your halfcourt defense--which requires the defense to rotate, and opens up other spots on the court. This can easily play out like a secondary fast break. You don't want to have to defend in a scramble situation, when you are only gaining 2 seconds of game time.

 

[longtimefan]

Where's Buddy?

Your scenario is simply not how it works. A 50 foot pass should easily be picked off by the other guard or one of our wings, who can leak up to help cover Joe momentarily

See below.

 

[dollarbill44]

Look, we can go back and forth on this forever. We can do an Xs and Os for every scenario. There is no right or wrong. I just prefer a low risk strategy to make them use the clock a little and shorten the game at the end and maybe take away a possession or two. Clearly a lot of you, including JB, prefer the more passive approach that allows the defense to be in a perfect position and take your chances with us making all of our FTs. I doubt I'm going to change any minds, so I think I'm moving on from this topic until the next time we fritter away an 8 point lead with 60 seconds left to 2 points with 10 seconds left.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

See below.

I'm with dollarbill. All you need for our guards to do is to pretend to go after the ball forcing a reaction from the PG on the other team. If he wants to grab the ball quickly and whip a pass half the distance of the court, that's absolutely a win for us. The percentages of him making the pass cleanly are very low. That's half the reason presses work. Put the other guys into unsettled positions.

Let me be clear, I do not want Joe or Buddy to actually try to get the ball. That will likely result in a foul or worse.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not to go all Townie here I’m not sure criticizing JBs handling of late game situations is particularly wise given how things usually play out.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Not to go all Townie here I’m not sure criticizing JBs handling of late game situations is particularly wise given how things usually play out.

Townie-fan.

 

[supp]

I'm with dollarbill. All you need for our guards to do is to pretend to go after the ball forcing a reaction from the PG on the other team. If he wants to grab the ball quickly and whip a pass half the distance of the court, that's absolutely a win for us. The percentages of him making the pass cleanly are very low. That's half the reason presses work. Put the other guys into unsettled positions.

Let me be clear, I do not want Joe or Buddy to actually try to get the ball. That will likely result in a foul or worse.

Agreed. There are ways to have your cake and eat it too.