ESPNs David Hale doesn't hold back his opinion on Syracuse Football

[Scooch]

he isn't getting the job done but those aren't excuses either, they are real issues holding the program back in many ways. It's still time for a change

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then they need to leave us all alone and stop whining.

 

[NYCCuse826]

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then they need to leave us all alone and stop whining.

Just adding to this, they didn't have a nutritionist for the team up until recently. You realize how crazy that is for a sport like football especially at this level?

 

[Chip]

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then they need to leave us all alone and stop whining.

Or just keep hiring cheap, limited buyouts based on performance, find people grateful to take the job where you can pull that off. Hope that you'll strike gold as often as you can, but getting out if it to try another guy isn't a financial concern we have to think about.

 

[elimunelson]

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then they need to leave us all alone and stop whining.

Completely agree w everything you say about the program. No disagreement at all.

As I said upstream, i kinda like a national media guy making excuses for us narrative wise so that there is some contextual analysis why things are going sideways. I'm not an excuse guy but as he lays them out he makes a good case why we are fighting with one hand tied behind our back. To me it sets up the next coach to figure out where the deficiencies lie with the infastructure and can attack there.

I don't think we have a recruiting issue. we are recruiting good players. I see issues more with in game managment, coaching and a collective sense of depth which was always a build out through the trenches of new england, NJ, NY. I don't recall us getting a ton of big uglies from texas for example. I do think that's where an addazio type who knows the diff btw Avon HS and Avon Old Farms could be helpful.

Syracuse, contrary to how we feel right now, is a special place with a unique fan base. No other bigtime football program resides within 300 miles a few diff directions from SU. The team is the pro team essentially for CNY. There's money in the bananastand too if a coach can unlock the energy of the program again. Mac did it. He's the avatar to which wildhack has to find the next guy. To this day if you mention SU football to a older gen x person, Mac is the guy who is in their head. Maybe the next HC can go full retro and wear the blue blazer and the orange tie!

 

[Cusefan69]

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then they need to leave us all alone and stop whining.

Agreed but for clarity Syracuse and the AD don't fund the Nil program but rather businesses, donors and general fans.

 

[Scooch]

Or just keep hiring cheap, limited buyouts based on performance, find people grateful to take the job where you can pull that off. Hope that you'll strike gold as often as you can, but getting out if it to try another guy isn't a financial concern we have to think about.

Oh for sure. If the folks at SU are honest about their financial limitations and want to cycle through FCS coaches and hope one of those hires catches lightning in a bottle, by all means go for it.

I'm just EXHAUSTED by the constant refrains of not having the facilities, or NIL funds, or staff salaries, or recruiting footprint, of the top 15-20 power programs in the country. Like, no s-H!t we don't.

Either figure out how to build a small market program, or just stop whining about not having what we are never, ever going to have.

 

[Scooch]

Agreed but for clarity Syracuse and the AD don't fund the Nil program but rather businesses, donors and general fans.

I'm aware. SU plays a huge role in it though. To think otherwise is naive (not saying you're naive).

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Correct. Which is why I'm going to pound the "Then fix it or shut up" drum forever more.

We've known our obstacles clearly for 20+ years. No reasonable person expects SU to compete for national titles, or even ACC titles. Most just want us to be a program that can potentially (not even every year) win 8-9 games and be competitive with most everyone on the schedule.

If our limitations prevent even that modest ceiling then we should just stop trying. SU needs to get their s-h!t together, fund the facilities, fund NIL to an appropriate level, pay the football staff competitive salaries, and then let the chips fall. If we aren't capable of doing that then leave us all alone.

Yeah, if you can get a coach to establish a floor and then a ceiling maybe with some renewed enthusiasm the university, donors, fans, players etc can work together to help and try to push through that ceiling but until a fundamental baseline of success is established by a solid head coach nothing will ever get better.

we all hoped it would be Dino and he was given every opportunity to be that guy but he has simply not worked out.

 

[Cusefan69]

I'm aware. SU plays a huge role in it though. To think otherwise is naive (not saying you're naive).

Yep, they certainly behind the scenes facilitate I am sure many things and they very much direct and guide value to player. I was more bringing it up because we still have fans that believe JW/Syracuse is/are responsible for pumping money into Nil themselves and that's not the case.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The lack of competitive NIL opportunities not only affects players who might want to leave, but it also affect the quality of player you can attract to your program.

In summer of 2022 Syracuse entertained several d-line transfer prospects but were unable to land a single d-line transfer despite the clear opportunity to play. Why? Then in 2023 we lost two more d-linemen. One was not a good fit for the 3.3.5, but the other was young and in the rotation. We did pick up one d-lineman who was a restoration project and is just starting to come around.

It’s not just what you lose, but also what you’re not able to pick up.

I would put the inability to recruit talent as a top problem.

This is why I’m saying we should “overpay” a guy like Tony White or Kenny Chesney for $7M, but in the fine print earmark half of that to NIL using back channels. We boost our NIL by a few million and you’ll be amazed at the kind of talent we can bring in. Facilities… schmalities… the shiny toys don’t matter to the kids anymore. Just raise the cash and pay them.

 

[Scooch]

Yep, they certainly behind the scenes facilitate I am sure many things and they very much direct and guide value to player. I was more bringing it up because we still have fans that believe JW/Syracuse is/are responsible for pumping money into Nil themselves and that's not the case.

We have fans who think that student tuition can pay for weight rooms and salary for the Linebackers coach.

 

[djorange1989]

Just adding to this, they didn't have a nutritionist for the team up until recently. You realize how crazy that is for a sport like football especially at this level?

And no matter what people say, I know for a fact that a lot of players parents are not happy with the S&C program here. If Wildhack doesn’t fix that, we have a big problem

 

[FrancoPizza]

Agreed but for clarity Syracuse and the AD don't fund the Nil program but rather businesses, donors and general fans.

This is where the university needs to stop acting like they are priests. Get your hands dirty. Just make sure the money can’t be traced back to SU.

Or tell lally we need to wait on phase 3 and beg him to move some of his contributions to NIL.

Makes all the Weitsman stuff really frustrating. Lost a million a year in NIL at least. Yes he’s a prima Donna get over it.

 

[Trueblue25]

The lack of competitive NIL opportunities not only affects players who might want to leave, but it also affect the quality of player you can attract to your program.

In summer of 2022 Syracuse entertained several d-line transfer prospects but were unable to land a single d-line transfer despite the clear opportunity to play. Why? Then in 2023 we lost two more d-linemen. One was not a good fit for the 3.3.5, but the other was young and in the rotation. We did pick up one d-lineman who was a restoration project and is just starting to come around.

It’s not just what you lose, but also what you’re not able to pick up.

I would put the inability to recruit talent as a top problem.

Perhaps its what positions are a priority to the staff then too?

I know, directly, of multiple players with very competitive outside NIL arrangements.

At a certain point, is an issue getting local businesses/money to buy into Dino?

People are not wild about throwing money away.

 

[NYCCuse826]

Yep, they certainly behind the scenes facilitate I am sure many things and they very much direct and guide value to player. I was more bringing it up because we still have fans that believe JW/Syracuse is/are responsible for pumping money into Nil themselves and that's not the case.

They aren't but they have to facilitate that. I've never received a communication from SUA about a NIL collective. That's one way to reach out to people. Farm email addresses through Ticketmaster to contact people who've bought tickets to Syracuse games.

 

[Cusefan69]

They aren't but they have to facilitate that. I've never received a communication from SUA about a NIL collective. That's one way to reach out to people. Farm email addresses through Ticketmaster to contact people who've bought tickets to Syracuse games.

Agree and as fyi I actually had not received anything up until this new collective just rolled out. I think I have received 2 emails since with the most recent being if you buy at certain tier level, they would match.

 

[orange79]

This is why I’m saying we should “overpay” a guy like Tony White or Kenny Chesney for $7M, but in the fine print earmark half of that to NIL using back channels. We boost our NIL by a few million and you’ll be amazed at the kind of talent we can bring in. Facilities… schmalities… the shiny toys don’t matter to the kids anymore. Just raise the cash and pay them.

lol

 

[Cheriehoop]

No. Syracuse and Duke (by choice) were the only two ACC schools to play with no fans the entire season. And the NYS testing and screening protocols were much more strict than any other state with ACC teams. In fact those testing protocols and vaccine verification requirements also impacted 2021. As stated above the player testing alone was well into the high seven figures and while the general University bore a portion of that cost, the additional testing required by the conference and in response to player concerns - IIRC correctly three times a week - fell on athletics.

In terms of on field impacts every school dealt with opt outs and spring practice disruption, but not complete cancellation of spring ball, two new coordinators that installed completely different systems largely via Zoom meetings, and practices restricted to no more than 10 player pods until two weeks before their opener.

No P5 program was impacted by Covid as significantly as Syracuse and it’s not close.

I read that Virginia played 2020 season with no fans too.

Hope that SU applied for those government PPP payments and those applicable to athletics got those $ back in their budget.

 

[Millhouse]

Or just keep hiring cheap, limited buyouts based on performance, find people grateful to take the job where you can pull that off. Hope that you'll strike gold as often as you can, but getting out if it to try another guy isn't a financial concern we have to think about.

 

[javadoc]

I get that we don't have the facilities to compete with the top 15 schools, but where I disagree with Hale is that for 8 years, we have stunk by week 6, and Friday was the definition of that. Dino has not been able to coach us up to victories we can and should have. On top of that, we can't have an offense that simply does not move the ball at home against a very mediocre at best BC team with a QB who throws 4 ints. Regardless of how many players we have lost to the portal or are hurt, that is unacceptable. We need to move on, and I don't think we are expecting to be on Bama's level. We are looking to hold court at home against BC. That should be attainable right now.

The reason we get worse throughout the season has to be due to our physical deterioration. Every single year, it seems. We have one person on staff who is responsible for making sure that we are strong, durable, and physically able to compete. Dino will go down with the ship for not dealing with this one fact, above all others IMO.

 

[Millhouse]

Or just keep hiring cheap, limited buyouts based on performance, find people grateful to take the job where you can pull that off. Hope that you'll strike gold as often as you can, but getting out if it to try another guy isn't a financial concern we have to think about.

100%. have a profile of who you're looking for (find qbs, teach them, and let them throw a lot) but don't go crazy overspending for the one guy you just have to have. don't kid yourself and think you know *this is the guy* *i'm in the talent evaluation business* blah blah. come up with a direction, get a reasonable pool, pick one, and cross your fingers

 

[Bayside44]

They aren't but they have to facilitate that. I've never received a communication from SUA about a NIL collective. That's one way to reach out to people. Farm email addresses through Ticketmaster to contact people who've bought tickets to Syracuse games.

I have, same as many others

 

[Millhouse]

The reason we get worse throughout the season has to be due to our physical deterioration. Every single year, it seems. We have one person on staff who is responsible for making sure that we are strong, durable, and physically able to compete. Dino will go down with the ship for not dealing with this one fact, above all others IMO.

big east had breathers, there was no gaunlet of horrific violence

i'm convinced that's why schedule matters so much here. it's not so much overall strength of schedule, you can make the averages low by scheduling cupcakes but it's the top end teams in succession that will wreck us for the rest of the year

 

[Consigliere]

I read that Virginia played 2020 season with no fans too.

Hope that SU applied for those government PPP payments and those applicable to athletics got those $ back in their budget.

Virginia allowed vewry limited attendance the second half of their season. Definitely allowed players families to attend, but I believe attendance would have been under 1000.

 

[rrlbees]

The reason we get worse throughout the season has to be due to our physical deterioration. Every single year, it seems. We have one person on staff who is responsible for making sure that we are strong, durable, and physically able to compete. Dino will go down with the ship for not dealing with this one fact, above all others IMO.

We have 4 S&C guys.