ESPNs David Hale doesn't hold back his opinion on Syracuse Football

[Chip]

We were fortunate to just play and all people seem to remember is we went 1-10. Correct 1-10 with half a team. Sometimes I almost wish we hadn’t played at all because the fallout from that season has been toxic. There are similarities between now and then. All people will remember is we lost to BC. The fact that we played without our QB1 and a starting safety will be dismissed or forgotten.

I was right on board with this (the Covid part) until it appears that you draw some parallel to us not having Shrader on Friday.

Then you lost me.

 

[Millhouse]

I was right on board with this (the Covid part) until it appears that you draw some parallel to us not having Shrader on Friday.

Then you lost me.

yeah i'm all for throwing out 2020. but sometimes your starter gets an owie

which by the way is the number one thing i'd fire babers for

 

[Millhouse]

Endowments are usually legally bound and can’t be touched.

you can say endowments can't be touched but chip will spend his whole life proving you wrong

 

[Cusefan95]

People forget these details. I remember we switched players’ positions just to meet the minimum number of players needed to play. Most people have forgotten there were minimums need to play. A total number of players and a minimum at each position to qualify to play safely which is why Rhino played defensive line and offensive guard in addition to his fullback position. Coaches and players were sick or quarantined off and on throughout the season. Didn’t one coach move his family out of the area so his kids could go to school?

We were fortunate to just play and all people seem to remember is we went 1-10. Correct 1-10 with half a team. Sometimes I almost wish we hadn’t played at all because the fallout from that season has been toxic. There are similarities between now and then. All people will remember is we lost to BC. The fact that we played without our QB1 and a starting safety will be dismissed or forgotten.

…and the issues we faced during COViD - which other schools DIDN’T face, impacted the decision to keep Babers on past 2021. Then we made a bowl in 2022, so weren’t going to get rid of him then.

There’s a lot of wailing that Wildhack should not have let Babers stay for eight years, we should have gotten rid of him in ‘21, we faced the same issues as everyone else during COVID (which is demonstrably b***sh**)… we got to this point where Babers lasted eight years because of an event which has no precedent in the entire history of our nation - guys need to shut up about what a horrible job Wildhack has done (related to this issue) because every decision he’s made up to now has been defensible based on the situation at the time.

He just needs to pull the ripcord now, which I expect will happen.

 

[chuck]

You reap what you sow for wanting the NIL nonsense. College sports was fine the way it was. Change isn't always good sometimes imo...

 

[Cusefan78]

People forget these details. I remember we switched players’ positions just to meet the minimum number of players needed to play. Most people have forgotten there were minimums need to play. A total number of players and a minimum at each position to qualify to play safely which is why Rhino played defensive line and offensive guard in addition to his fullback position. Coaches and players were sick or quarantined off and on throughout the season. Didn’t one coach move his family out of the area so his kids could go to school?

We were fortunate to just play and all people seem to remember is we went 1-10. Correct 1-10 with half a team. Sometimes I almost wish we hadn’t played at all because the fallout from that season has been toxic. There are similarities between now and then. All people will remember is we lost to BC. The fact that we played without our QB1 and a starting safety will be dismissed or forgotten.

The fact that Dino can’t recruit competent players is on him and has nothing to do with Covid.

 

[Cusefan95]

The fact that Dino can’t recruit competent players is on him and has nothing to do with Covid.

Don’t think anyone is arguing that.

The discussion was “did Syracuse face the exact same issues as everyone else during COVID?” The ill informed were taking the position we didn’t have to deal with any significantly greater challenges than other schools. Which - as was pointed out in earlier comments - is nonsense.

I’m not sure if you simply misunderstood the discussion - in which case I hopefully caught you up to speed - or if your comment is an attempt at goalpost shifting. If it was an attempt at goalpost shifting - it failed, all you did was make a comment totally irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

How Do University Endowments Work?

Endowments represent money or other financial assets donated to universities that are invested to grow the principal and provide additional income for future expenditures.

www.investopedia.com

University endowments (and all endowments) have a specific legal structure that is intended to indefinitely perpetuate a pool of investments for a specific purpose. Typically, endowment funds follow a fairly strict set of long-term guidelines that dictate the asset allocation that will yield the targeted return without taking on too much risk.
...
Some endowment funds have guidelines stating how much of each year's investment income can be spent. For many universities, this amount is approximately 5% of the endowment's total asset value.

Interestingly, football coaching positions can be endowed…like they have at Stanford.

 

[orange79]

Interestingly, football coaching positions can be endowed…like they have at Stanford.

If I am not mistaken, those "endowed" positions are just from money directly donated in perpetuity (or for a certain amount of time) for the coaching position, not money taken from the school's endowment fund.

Apologies if that's not what you were implying.

 

[MSOrange]

If I am not mistaken, those "endowed" positions are just from money directly donated in perpetuity (or for a certain amount of time) for the coaching position, not money taken from the school's endowment fund.

Apologies if that's not what you were implying.

Yes. Here is an article on the Iowa women's basketball position.

A Historic Moment for Big Ten Women's Basketball

www.foriowa.org

 

[NYCCuse826]

Interestingly, football coaching positions can be endowed…like they have at Stanford.

Has to be earmarked.

 

[Scooch]

Interestingly, football coaching positions can be endowed…like they have at Stanford.

Sure they can. Professor positions are often endowed. But they’re not paid from the endowment.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

If I am not mistaken, those "endowed" positions are just from money directly donated in perpetuity (or for a certain amount of time) for the coaching position, not money taken from the school's endowment fund.

Apologies if that's not what you were implying.

Correct. They are endowed positions in athletics…not funded by the general endowment.

 

[FasterCuse]

Not to go back to this discussion, but I still don't think you give Dino a pass for 2020. You know who else played with NYS restrictions? University of Buffalo. There record that year, 6-2. It could be argued that California also had just as restrictive guidelines in place. Stanford (a private university) went 4-2 that year and were competitive in their two losses. If Dino had recruited better prior to 2020 we win more than 1 game with or without restrictions that season. Even you lift the restrictions that year we probably win 5 games, at most.

Now with that said, I don't think that changes whether Dino is here this year or not. I still don't think we fork up the money for his buyout before now, but I can't stand when people give him a pass for the COVID year when there were other teams right in our own state who seemed to manage through the situation a whole lot better.

 

[Cusefan95]

Not to go back to this discussion, but I still don't think you give Dino a pass for 2020. You know who else played with NYS restrictions? University of Buffalo. There record that year, 6-2. It could be argued that California also had just as restrictive guidelines in place. Stanford (a private university) went 4-2 that year and were competitive in their two losses. If Dino had recruited better prior to 2020 we win more than 1 game with or without restrictions that season. Even you lift the restrictions that year we probably win 5 games, at most.

Now with that said, I don't think that changes whether Dino is here this year or not. I still don't think we fork up the money for his buyout before now, but I can't stand when people give him a pass for the COVID year when there were other teams right in our own state who seemed to manage through the situation a whole lot better.

I think you need to go more granular in your analysis to figure out the impacts COVID had. We had one site in NY which never took downtime during COVID, another which averaged 1-2 days of downtime per week...while its easy to say "they were all under NYS rules!!!", reality was every county had a role and in one case made running a business borderline impossible. Additionally numbers of people who either quit and moved or ended up having to screen out for extended periods had disparate impacts (which renders the Buffalo vs Syracuse comparison null and void as well). If we'd told managers in the site that was ending up with lots of downtime they needed to "manage the situation better", when "the situation" was almost entirely made up of issues outside of any ability for them to control - that would have made us ignorant . Trying to make comparisons for 2020 is largely pointless, which is why I think throwing that year out in an analysis as a bizarre statistical outlier makes sense.

I think your unwillingness to do that though, impacts your view of the situation today. It seems a lot of folks are convinced that since Wildhack didn't get rid of Babers while COVID was having impacts, he won't now. But - based on the situation on the ground at the time - I think every decision he made for the last 6 years regarding football coaching was correct, or at least very easily defendable. Keeping him past this year isn't yet indefensible, but likely will become that as the season plays out. Your position boils down to thinking he'll make an indefensible decision because all of his past decisions were defensible but you didn't like them.