ESPN's Top 74 NBA players of all-time

[Melancer46]

At the end of his career barring injury he will be on the list, but this can't be a projection it's based on what people have done over a period of time. The gentlemen in bold all played 15+ years and were great for most of them.

If he retires after this season, he's a multi-time MVP and possibly a DPOY as well. He's already there. He's already accomplished more individually than most of the other players on the list.

Edit: A few examples:

Dennis Rodman (ranked 62nd all-time): 2 All-NBA Teams, 2 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes
Paul Pierce (ranked 54th all-time: 4 All-NBA teams, 10 All-Stars, 1 Top 10 MVP finish
Reggie Miller (ranked 49th all-time: 3 All-NBA teams, 5 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes

After this season, Giannis will have 4 All-NBA teams (including 2 1st teams compared to 0 for the three guys above), 4 All-Stars, 3 Top 10 MVP finishes and 2 actual MVPs.

 

[Knicks411]

If he retires after this season, he's a multi-time MVP and possibly a DPOY as well. He's already there. He's already accomplished more individually than most of the other players on the list.

Edit: A few examples:

Dennis Rodman (ranked 62nd all-time): 2 All-NBA Teams, 2 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes
Paul Pierce (ranked 54th all-time: 4 All-NBA teams, 10 All-Stars, 1 Top 10 MVP finish
Reggie Miller (ranked 49th all-time: 3 All-NBA teams, 5 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes

After this season, Giannis will have 4 All-NBA teams (including 2 1st teams compared to 0 for the three guys above), 4 All-Stars, 3 Top 10 MVP finishes and 2 actual MVPs.

I think especially in a sport like basketball, where championships are driven so much by having the elite players, this kind of stuff really matters.

Miller and Paul Pierce were obviously very good players for a very long time, not trying to knock them. (obviously a lie, two of my least favorite players ever) but Giannis the last few years is the kind of guy who wins you a title. Now, granted, it would be nice for him to make say a conference finals to make my point a little stronger.

 

[Melancer46]

On a related note, there's so much attention on Giannis being ranked in the top 30, but so little attention is being paid to Kawhi, who is above Giannis while having the same number of All-Star appearances, 0 MVPs to Giannis' 2, and will likely have the same number of All-NBAs as Giannis. I guess the two Finals MVPs (one of which was legitimately incredible while the other was just decent and arguably undeserved) are better than two actual MVPs in terms of individual rankings? I wouldn't personally weigh Finals MVPs > regular season MVPs but to each their own.

 

[Melancer46]

I think especially in a sport like basketball, where championships are driven so much by having the elite players, this kind of stuff really matters.

Miller and Paul Pierce were obviously very good players for a very long time, not trying to knock them. (obviously a lie, two of my least favorite players ever) but Giannis the last few years is the kind of guy who wins you a title. Now, granted, it would be nice for him to make say a conference finals to make my point a little stronger.

Milwaukee did make the conference finals last year before the collapse to Kawhi and VanVleet

 

[OrangeDW]

I’m not sure about Curry being 18 spots higher than Isiah.

 

[sufandu]

"He was on 7 championship teams" makes it sound like he was just there for the ride. Which, he wasn't, but in addition to that, that's a whole lot of coincidence.

He's an outlier. One way the HOF rewards people is by honoring outliers that exhibit exceptional talent. Horry exhibited exceptional results. No one outside of the earlier days of the NBA's Celtics core has had the results Horry had. It's a contribution to the game case. Horry's contribution was to highlight the most exemplary role player possible.

This is a great article I found -

It's not a coicidence. He was good at choosing teams with the best players in the league and probably made a choice to take less money to have a better chance at winning championships. Was he irrelevant? No. He played a role. That's what role players do. That doesn't make him a HOFer.

 

[Gabjon]

Not saying this to be funny but are you confusing Giannis with Durant? Giannis is a beast inside who gets most of his buckets inside the paint.

LOL! no. He plays in a offense with a stretch 5 Brook Lopez, so he scores in the lane, but there is not post player, 90's basketball was played with 2 post players the lane was not open and Giannis would not be play in the post with those guys.

It's not a knock it is just how the game has changed.

 

[Knicks411]

Milwaukee did make the conference finals last year before the collapse to Kawhi and VanVleet

Yeah I don't know why I thought they lost in round 2. I guess I got them and Philly confused? Carry on.

They were even up 2-0! I do remember that

 

[sufandu]

Without even looking hard I know Horry won 3 games that helped his team eventually win a championship. I remember these guys off my memory.
Game 1 is the 1995 WCF in San Antonio he hit a game winner for the Rockets and helped them get ahead of the Spurs and win that upset.
He took over game 5 of the 2005 FInals in Detroit for San Antonio and won that game when the series was tied 2-2 and they won in 7 and in 2002 he hit a buzzer beater in game 4 of the WCF against the Kings.
I don’t know if he belongs on the HOF but Robert Horry was insanely clutch in the playoffs and singlehandily won games that swung titles and he was part of 7 championship teams even if he wasn’t one of the top players on those teams.

Rockets/Spurs/Lakers don’t win all their championships if they didn’t have him.

Great. Jordan doesn't win number 3 without Paxson hitting a game winner or number 6 without Kerr hitting one (I think I'm remembering those in the right time frame). Horry had big moments, but did not carry the bulk of the load on any of those teams. He averaged single digits for his career in both the regular season and the playoffs while shooting 42% from the field and 36% from 3. He wasn't even a starter during 4 of those championship seasons.

I agree, he was situationally clutch. However, he is in no way a HOFer.

 

[Gabjon]

If he retires after this season, he's a multi-time MVP and possibly a DPOY as well. He's already there. He's already accomplished more individually than most of the other players on the list.

Edit: A few examples:

Dennis Rodman (ranked 62nd all-time): 2 All-NBA Teams, 2 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes
Paul Pierce (ranked 54th all-time: 4 All-NBA teams, 10 All-Stars, 1 Top 10 MVP finish
Reggie Miller (ranked 49th all-time: 3 All-NBA teams, 5 All-Stars, 0 Top 10 MVP finishes

After this season, Giannis will have 4 All-NBA teams (including 2 1st teams compared to 0 for the three guys above), 4 All-Stars, 3 Top 10 MVP finishes and 2 actual MVPs.

We disagree and the fact that he is listed ahead of those 3 guy each with a 15+ year careers proves the point that it is a "prisoner of moment" selection.

BTW
Carmelo Anthony (not ranked) : 7 All-NBA Teams, 10 All-Stars, 2 top 10 MVP finishes. 15+ year career

 

[Melancer46]

We disagree and the fact that he is listed ahead of those 3 guy each with a 15+ year careers proves the point that it is a "prisoner of moment" selection.

BTW
Carmelo Anthony (not ranked) : 7 All-NBA Teams, 10 All-Stars, 2 top 10 MVP finishes. 15+ year career

The Carmelo exclusion is ridiculous IMO. I think his game will be appreciated a lot more when we move further away from this generation of players. He's too recent right now so he's remembered as basically being a meme right now because of how he flopped out of the league the last year or two. With more distance from this era, people will look back at his highlights, the things you listed above, his Olympic accolades, etc. and think a lot more fondly of him.

I just can't see how you think guys that played 15+ years and accomplished less than Giannis has in a 4 year stretch deserve to be ranked ahead of him though. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

[Gabjon]

The Carmelo exclusion is ridiculous IMO. I think his game will be appreciated a lot more when we move further away from this generation of players. He's too recent right now so he's remembered as basically being a meme right now because of how he flopped out of the league the last year or two. With more distance from this era, people will look back at his highlights, the things you listed above, his Olympic accolades, etc. and think a lot more fondly of him.

I just can't see how you think guys that played 15+ years and accomplished less than Giannis has in a 4 year stretch deserve to be ranked ahead of him though. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

This isn't a fan survey, it was put out by ESPN and there is a bit of marketing today's player involved, for example how did Anthony Davis make the list? Great player but has missed too many games, hasn't done anything in the playoffs. Has he had a better career than Chris Bosh who is not on the list of course not, not yet anyway.

Anthony Davis Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Anthony Davis. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Chris Bosh Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Chris Bosh. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[Melancer46]

This isn't a fan survey, it was put out by ESPN and there is a bit of marketing today's player involved, for example how did Anthony Davis make the list? Great player but has missed too many games, hasn't done anything in the playoffs. Has he had a better career than Chris Bosh who is not on the list of course not, not yet anyway.

Anthony Davis Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Anthony Davis. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Chris Bosh Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Chris Bosh. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I understand it isn't average joe fans, but ESPN's writers are fans too.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Syracuse fans to Earl "The Pearl" Monroe
View attachment 181741

Black Jesus was his best nickname. Jordan tried to steal it from him.

 

[RoysRunts]

Where is Sam Jones on the list
Sam Jones - Celtics Legend

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He was good at choosing teams with the best players in the league and probably made a choice to take less money to have a better chance at winning championships.

Hang on - how did he choose to get drafted by the Rockets and traded to the Lakers?

 

[Gabjon]

I'm a big Damian Lillard fan but no way he is on this list and Joe Dumars is not...no way!

 

[Melancer46]

I'm a big Damian Lillard fan but no way he is on this list and Joe Dumars is not...no way!

Yeah, that one shocked me too, though he does have 4 All-NBA appearances, 5 all-stars, and 3 top 10 MVP finishes already in his career. I thought he was overrated up until the last couple of years but his resume is surprisingly strong already.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, that one shocked me too, though he does have 4 All-NBA appearances, 5 all-stars, and 3 top 10 MVP finishes already in his career. I thought he was overrated up until the last couple of years but his resume is surprisingly strong already.

And you can add one to the all NBA, and probably to the top ten MVP as well whenever this season is over.

Dumars vs Lillard is an interesting type debate. Dumars once was second team all NBA, twice third. 4 times on first team all defense. But his best finish in MVP was 10th; it's clear he was never considered one of the better players in the league. And it's just as clear Lillard has been. (Certainly never one of the true elites, but a top 7-10 type guy)

It's not like Dumars is just a compiler, he did play a key role for 2 title winning teams, and they did make the conf finals or better 5 years in a row. In general, I would tend to defer to the guy with the higher peaks, but I do think at this point, you could reasonably argue Dumars has had a better career than Lillard. For now

 

[sufandu]

Hang on - how did he choose to get drafted by the Rockets and traded to the Lakers?

Good point, he didn't. He was fortunate to get drafted by the Rockets, just like a lot of role players that are drafted to teams that are already really good before they get there. I don't know who initiated the trade to the Lakers or the rationale for it. But if he was such an impactful player, why was he 7th on the team in minutes and scoring on '99-'00, 8th in minutes and 9th in scoring in '00-'01, and 5th in minutes and 6th in scoring in '01-'02? Rick Fox contributed more on those teams. Should he be faulted for being drafted to the Celtics just as the Bird era ended while Horry was drafted to the Rockets just as their window was opening?

He was a role player, not a HOFer. HOFers don't average single digits in scoring, rebounds, and assists across an entire career while coming off the bench for most of it.

 

[Eric15]

This was an interesting article. 10 biggest MVP snubs in NBA history.

Ranking 10 biggest MVP snubs in NBA history, including Karl Malone's win over Michael Jordan

The 1997 MVP covered in 'The Last Dance' was far from the worst trophy ever awarded

www.cbssports.com